Illegal Immigration Fix.

[dazzleman]

Copy and pasted it from a place you would never imagine that idea comming from.

Democratic Underground?

Bingo.

Theres actually a pretty big war going on over there.  50% support the "undocumented workers", because they're just trying to support their families and live the American dream. And the other 50% support deportation, huge fines on employers, and a wall on the border.

Nick, what are you doing hanging out with the DU gang?

[Moooooo]

Ive been there for so long its hard to just leave.  Plus, some of the people there are good, smart people.  I just speak my mind there and thats that.  Most the time I get slammed for being 'DLC' or 'Repub-Lite', but I dont mind. 

[??????????]

Make becoming a citizen easier with three easy steps :

Basic understanding of the English language and writing.
Pass a "good health" examination.
Have a basic knowledge of US history and be able to pass a citizenship exam.

Add to that no serious criminal record.

For once, with the exception of number one, I agree with you States. The best thing we can do first, is make it easier to bacome a citizen, then you wont have so many illegal immigrants. And offer free English classes, and encourage them strongly, but dont make them mandatory. Otherwise, looks perfect.

No, English should absolutely be mandatory. Learning to speak the native language of the country you are planning to live in is only common courtesy.

[??????????]

I really don't understand the line President Bush uses frequently in his addresses "... jobs Americans won't do," because

It's because of the welfare state. It's made Americans to damned lazy to do a bit of hard work. Americans will pick fruit, work in slaughter houses, and do those kinds of jobs if they aren't given any other choice. If the choice is between those jobs and welfare a lot of the more ignorant people in our society will choose the welfare option.

[MODU]

I've come up with a contrarian idea this morning.  We currently have millions of people (legals, illegals . . . doesn't matter) protesting for legal recognition of foreign nationals.  Well, I think we should, after all, this is a nation built upon immigrants.  So . . . all foreign nationals who have come here legally, and are in good standing, should be offered the option to become instant citizens.  They have to show their valid documentation, visa's, work/school/tax records, etc . . . and poof, you are a citizen.  THAT would show the rest of the world and the illegals in the country that you only receive rewards for following the rules. 

[opebo]

I really don't understand the line President Bush uses frequently in his addresses "... jobs Americans won't do," because

1. Some of the jobs done routinely by illegals, such as yardwork, construction, moving, or hotel and food service, have great demand by native-born Americans, particularly poors. Except, Americans are willing to work in those jobs only at minimum wage or higher.

Such jobs should be unionized, and paid at least a legal minimum of $15/hour, but preferrably a liveable union wage of say $20-25/hour.

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That is a ridiculously low wage for such work, even in cheap rural areas.

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Do you mean because the owners want the slave-labour?

[The Constitarian]

I agree with this plan completely. In fact I posted this message October 31 of last year.

Border Patrol- America must stop illegal aliens not by just sending them back, but by punishing their employers.  We believe that massive fines and jail time should be guatanteed to anyone employing an illegal alien.  If it is a big company there will be fines for the branch leader, and the company.  People say that illegals do the jobs Americans won't, they are wrong, illegals do jobs Americans won't for the same price.  There is no job Americans wouldn't do for the proper amount of money.

[??????????]

I've come up with a contrarian idea this morning.  We currently have millions of people (legals, illegals . . . doesn't matter) protesting for legal recognition of foreign nationals.  Well, I think we should, after all, this is a nation built upon immigrants.  So . . . all foreign nationals who have come here legally, and are in good standing, should be offered the option to become instant citizens.  They have to show their valid documentation, visa's, work/school/tax records, etc . . . and poof, you are a citizen.  THAT would show the rest of the world and the illegals in the country that you only receive rewards for following the rules. 

I already suggested something similar to that a month ago but was ignored, as per the norm.

[MODU]

I've come up with a contrarian idea this morning.  We currently have millions of people (legals, illegals . . . doesn't matter) protesting for legal recognition of foreign nationals.  Well, I think we should, after all, this is a nation built upon immigrants.  So . . . all foreign nationals who have come here legally, and are in good standing, should be offered the option to become instant citizens.  They have to show their valid documentation, visa's, work/school/tax records, etc . . . and poof, you are a citizen.  THAT would show the rest of the world and the illegals in the country that you only receive rewards for following the rules. 

I already suggested something similar to that a month ago but was ignored, as per the norm.

hahaha . . . I must have missed it.    Or maybe it's in the back of my mind, and that's what gave me the thought this morning.  hehehe

[WalterMitty]

Make becoming a citizen easier with three easy steps :

Basic understanding of the English language and writing.
Pass a "good health" examination.
Have a basic knowledge of US history and be able to pass a citizenship exam.

most natural born americans wouldnt pass those tests.

by the way nick, that is an awful idea you have.

[??????????]

most natural born americans wouldnt pass those tests.

Pathetic, isn't it?

[Sam Spade]

http://www.oig.lsc.gov/legis/irca86.htm

Please read.

[ilikeverin]

"Every person/company who EMPLOYS an undocumented worker
   
--Goes Directly To Jail. It's a FELONY charge, nonwaiverable, no plea bargains. Minimum one year term, no time off for good behavior, NO PAROLE. If the employer has many employees, the time goes up, to a max of ten years. Does not pass go, or collect two hundred dollars.

--The employers are fined $500,000 PER EMPLOYEE. This fine is not waived, ever. You can't pay it? They'll garnish a percentage of your pay for the REST OF YOUR LIFE, if need be. These funds go into a pot to assist returning workers without funds with airfare to get home. Any balance goes to pay down the debt."

Must... resist... libertarian... thoughts... *cries*

- illegals caught working receive 3 months in jail, which allows the INS time to process their deportation paperwork (as well as for his/her family).

What about illegals who have moved in, settled down, and started a family?

[John Dibble]

Must... resist... libertarian... thoughts... *cries*

Excellent... soon, very soon you shall be sacrificing orphans(preferably black, hispanic, or some other oppressed minority) to our Dark God(Ron Paul) and devouring their entrails as you laugh at the misery of the poor. Yes... soon... you won't be able to resist forever...

[Rin-chan]

A $500,000 fine'll teach 'em.

Great quote!

Rin-chan

[Gabu]

A $500,000 fine'll teach 'em.

Great quote!

Rin-chan

You do realize that you're agreeing with Democratic Underground...

[ilikeverin]

Must... resist... libertarian... thoughts... *cries*

Excellent... soon, very soon you shall be sacrificing orphans(preferably black, hispanic, or some other oppressed minority) to our Dark God(Ron Paul) and devouring their entrails as you laugh at the misery of the poor. Yes... soon... you won't be able to resist forever...

I thought your Dark God(dess) was Ayn Rand   Are they some sort of Darkness Duopoly?  Even better would be if you made it three people, so there could be a Darkness Triumvirate/Triad/Troika

[© tweed]

- illegals caught working receive 3 months in jail, which allows the INS time to process their deportation paperwork (as well as for his/her family).

What about illegals who have moved in, settled down, and started a family?

Key word: ILLEGALS.  They broke the law, remember?  Would you give special treatment to a rapist if he had a nice family and a good job?  The law is the law for everyone.

The crime committed by an immigrant is not comparable to the crime committed  by a rapist.

[© tweed]

- illegals caught working receive 3 months in jail, which allows the INS time to process their deportation paperwork (as well as for his/her family).

What about illegals who have moved in, settled down, and started a family?

Key word: ILLEGALS.  They broke the law, remember?  Would you give special treatment to a rapist if he had a nice family and a good job?  The law is the law for everyone.

The crime committed by an immigrant is not comparable to the crime committed  by a rapist.

No sh**t, sherlock.  The point is not that illegal immigrants are as bad as rapists, it's that a criminal is a criminal and no exceptions to whatever law was broken should be made for "nice" people.

But the theory is that is an illegal immigrant who came here for one purpose -- to achieve a better life -- really a 'criminal'.  Sure, if you just want be be stone cold and refuse to think about it any deeper than you have to, a criminal is a criminal and so on.  But we have 11 million of these 'criminals' and jail/deportation isn't a realistic option.

[© tweed]

A criminal is a criminal is a criminal, period.

I don't see it that way.  And if you think about it a little while, you'll see it a little differently, too.  (You already stated that an illegal immigrant's crime is lesser than that of a rapist, which is a step in the right direction.)

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What threat do illegal immigrants pose to you, exactly?

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Umm... ok, but we're discussing the solution here.  That's a hint of a cop-out.

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Why not?  It's far more realistic than finding 11 million people, putting them on airplanes, and landing them in some backwater village in South America.

I'm all for building a wall, increasing border security, and so on.  But the only realistic solution for illegals currently on US territory is some sort of amnesty program.

[ilikeverin]

- illegals caught working receive 3 months in jail, which allows the INS time to process their deportation paperwork (as well as for his/her family).

What about illegals who have moved in, settled down, and started a family?

Key word: ILLEGALS.  They broke the law, remember?  Would you give special treatment to a rapist if he had a nice family and a good job?  The law is the law for everyone.

They settled down and started a family.  As in, they have children and perhaps a wife who were born here.  Which means you would be deporting citizens of the United States.

[© tweed]

Obviously there is a difference in crimes.  You are missing the point again.  Whoever breaks a law, for whatever reason, should pay the same consequences as anyone else who broke the same law.  It's only fair, and you will see it that way if you think at all about it.

And I'm advocating the same treatment for all illegal immigrants: an oppurtunity for amnesty.

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You're going to start a career as a day-laborer any time soon?

Illegals don't take up any of the skill-worker jobs, which is what you'll be looking in to, and there isn't necessarily a finite, set-in-stone number of jobs, either.

--

As for the rest of your post, it's clear that you don't see it as fair to legal immigrants to give amnesty to illegals.  And, guess what: it isn't.  But you fail to apply any sort of pragmatism to the issue, and instead just say "we can't give in".  Amnesty is the only realistic, real-world solution.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

"Every person/company who EMPLOYS an undocumented worker
   
--Goes Directly To Jail. It's a FELONY charge, nonwaiverable, no plea bargains. Minimum one year term, no time off for good behavior, NO PAROLE. If the employer has many employees, the time goes up, to a max of ten years. Does not pass go, or collect two hundred dollars.

--The employers are fined $500,000 PER EMPLOYEE. This fine is not waived, ever. You can't pay it? They'll garnish a percentage of your pay for the REST OF YOUR LIFE, if need be. These funds go into a pot to assist returning workers without funds with airfare to get home. Any balance goes to pay down the debt."

I agree 100%

Make becoming a citizen easier with three easy steps :

Basic understanding of the English language and writing.
Pass a "good health" examination.
Have a basic knowledge of US history and be able to pass a citizenship exam.

I also agree on that

[MODU]

- illegals caught working receive 3 months in jail, which allows the INS time to process their deportation paperwork (as well as for his/her family).

What about illegals who have moved in, settled down, and started a family?

Key word: ILLEGALS.  They broke the law, remember?  Would you give special treatment to a rapist if he had a nice family and a good job?  The law is the law for everyone.

They settled down and started a family.  As in, they have children and perhaps a wife who were born here.  Which means you would be deporting citizens of the United States.

To me, it doesn't matter.  The "parent" broke the law initially and knew the consequences.  He/She needs to be held responsible for their actions.  It is their fault that they had children who will now share in their parents disgrace and shift back to a country where they will not be as well off as in the US.  It sucks.  I know.  However, if that were to be the reason to give the illegal immigrant a free pass, then every illegal will come in here, have a kid, and claim sanctuary.  So what would be the point of having immigration laws?  To punish those who come here legally?

BTW (not directed solely at you, ilikeverin), I'm in the process of drafting a letter to my Senators right now on behalf of my friend who now has five weeks left on her Visa.  I am informing them that if they dare pass a law that gives illegals some sort of "reward" towards citizenship and/or legal status since they've been here for so long, then my friend, who came here legally in 1995, also deserves the same "reward."  There is NO reason why criminals should be given greater privalleges because they cry in public demanding special treatment while those that follow the rules gets screwed.

[John Dibble]

Must... resist... libertarian... thoughts... *cries*

Excellent... soon, very soon you shall be sacrificing orphans(preferably black, hispanic, or some other oppressed minority) to our Dark God(Ron Paul) and devouring their entrails as you laugh at the misery of the poor. Yes... soon... you won't be able to resist forever...

I thought your Dark God(dess) was Ayn Rand   Are they some sort of Darkness Duopoly?  Even better would be if you made it three people, so there could be a Darkness Triumvirate/Triad/Troika

We're Pagans - we can have as many gods and idols as we want. We've even got Shiva, not because he's libertarian or anything, just because he's freaky cool!