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Author Topic: Drudge Exposes Clark as Liar  (Read 11873 times)
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« on: January 15, 2004, 11:41:15 am »
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http://drudgereport.com/mattwc.htm

XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX WED JAN 15, 2003 11:28:25 ET XXXXX

WES CLARK MADE CASE FOR IRAQ WAR BEFORE CONGRESS; PRAISED PERLE ANALYSIS; TRANSCRIPT REVEALED

**World Exclusive**

Two months ago Democratic hopeful Wesley Clark declared in a debate that he has always been firmly against the current Iraq War.

"I've been very consistent ... I've been against this war from the beginning," the former general said in Detroit on October 26. "I was against it last summer, I was against it in the fall, I was against it in the winter, I was against it in the spring. And I'm against it now."

But just six month prior in an op-ed in the LONDON TIMES Clark offered praise for the courage of President Bush's action.

"President Bush and Tony Blair should be proud of their resolve in the face of so much doubt," Clark wrote on April 10, 2003. "Can anything be more moving than the joyous throngs swarming the streets of Baghdad? Memories of the fall of the Berlin Wall, and the defeat of Milosevic in Belgrade flood back. Statues and images of Saddam are smashed and defiled."

Even the most ardent Clark supporter will question if Clark's current and past stand on the Iraq war -- is confusion or deception, after the DRUDGE REPORT reveals:

TWO WEEKS BEFORE CONGRESS PASSED THE IRAQ CONGRESSIONAL RESOLUTION WESLEY CLARK MADE THE CASE FOR WAR; TESTIFIED THAT SADDAM HAD 'CHEMICAL AND BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS'

Less than 18 months ago, Wesley Clark offered his testimony before the Committee On Armed Services at the U.S. House Of Representatives.

"There's no requirement to have any doctrine here. I mean this is simply a longstanding right of the United States and other nations to take the actions they deem necessary in their self defense," Clark told Congress on September 26, 2002.

"Every president has deployed forces as necessary to take action. He's done so without multilateral support if necessary. He's done so in advance of conflict if necessary. In my experience, I was the commander of the European forces in NATO. When we took action in Kosovo, we did not have United Nations approval to do this and we did so in a way that was designed to preempt Serb ethnic cleansing and regional destabilization there. There were some people who didn' t agree with that decision. The United Nations was not able to agree to support it with a resolution."

Clark continued: "There' s no question that Saddam Hussein is a threat.... Yes, he has chemical and biological weapons. He's had those for a long time. But the United States right now is on a very much different defensive posture than we were before September 11th of 2001... He is, as far as we know, actively pursuing nuclear capabilities, though he doesn't have nuclear warheads yet. If he were to acquire nuclear weapons, I think our friends in the region would face greatly increased risks as would we."

More Clark: "And, I want to underscore that I think the United States should not categorize this action as preemptive. Preemptive and that doctrine has nothing whatsoever to do with this problem. As Richard Perle so eloquently pointed out, this is a problem that's longstanding. It's been a decade in the making. It needs to be dealt with and the clock is ticking on this."

Clark explained: "I think there' s no question that, even though we may not have the evidence as Richard [Perle] says, that there have been such contacts [between Iraq and al Qaeda]. It' s normal. It's natural. These are a lot of bad actors in the same region together. They are going to bump into each other. They are going to exchange information. They're going to feel each other out and see whether there are opportunities to cooperate. That's inevitable in this region, and I think it's clear that regardless of whether or not such evidence is produced of these connections that Saddam Hussein is a threat."

END
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« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2004, 11:45:00 am »
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WOW!!  Armed Services Committee should have that on tape!  cna see the ads next week in NH already!
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« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2004, 11:45:22 am »
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If that's true the man is a complete idiot.
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« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2004, 12:12:58 pm »
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If true this is a big gaffe for Clark.  But I'll wait to see if the major news networks (ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, & CNN) pick it up.  Drudge doesn't do the greatest fact checking in the world.
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« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2004, 12:22:47 pm »
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If true this is a big gaffe for Clark.

Main Entry: gaffe  
Pronunciation: 'gaf
Function: noun
Etymology: French, gaff, gaffe
Date: 1909
: a social or diplomatic blunder

Main Entry: 1blun·der  
Pronunciation: 'bl&n-d&r
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): blun·dered; blun·der·ing  /-d(&-)ri[ng]/
Etymology: Middle English blundren
Date: 14th century
intransitive senses
1 : to move unsteadily or confusedly
2 : to make a mistake through stupidity, ignorance, or carelessness
transitive senses
1 : to utter stupidly, confusedly, or thoughtlessly
2 : to make a stupid, careless, or thoughtless mistake in

---

I don’t call not telling the truth a “gaffe” or “blunder”, rather I call it “lying”, “deceit”, etc.
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« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2004, 12:43:14 pm »
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All politicians lie.  But when they get caught in a blatant one it can best be called a gaffe.
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« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2004, 12:47:26 pm »
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Hate to say it but Clark has flip flopped a bit and this wouldn't shock me. He's a political opportunist from what I've seen anyway
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« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2004, 12:54:25 pm »
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"Opportunist" is exactly the right word to describe Clark.

If the major networks pick up on this story then it could definitely bury Clark's chances of winning the nomination, perhaps even of being running mate.

Also, expect Kerry's campaign team to run and run this one in NH.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2004, 12:55:04 pm by Michael Zeigermann »Logged
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« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2004, 01:10:15 pm »
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If true this is a big gaffe for Clark.  But I'll wait to see if the major news networks (ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, & CNN) pick it up.  Drudge doesn't do the greatest fact checking in the world.

They have audio of it.
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« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2004, 01:11:44 pm »
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All politicians lie.  But when they get caught in a blatant one it can best be called a gaffe.

Our differences may be due to religion - the bible never refers to sin as a "mistake" (gaffe, blunder, etc), therefore I don't call lying a "mistake".

When I catch my kids lying, I don't tell them they made a "mistake".  Likewise, if the Drudge story is true, Clark didn't "mistakenly" not tell the truth, it was deliberate, it was a lie intentionally meant to deceive.

This goes to "character", a word Clark loves to use in reference to himself.
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« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2004, 01:22:20 pm »
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Like I said, all politicians lie.

Dick Cheney went on meet the Press in early 2003 and declared that "we believe Hussein has reconstituted nuclear weapons".  In May 2003 Donald Rumsfeld testified before Congress that he didn't believe that anyone within this administration had suggested that Hussein had nuclear weapons.  There's no way that Cheney would have that sort of info and a few months later Rumsfeld not have it.

Yep, Clark may have shot himself in the butt on this one.
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« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2004, 01:45:13 pm »
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Like I said, all politicians lie.

That does NOT mean that lies equate to making mistakes.  A mistake means that you had the facts in ERROR (either by confusion or lack of ability to arrive at the correct answer); not that you knew the facts and chose to tell a lie.  That is NOT a mistake, rather is a choice to intentionally deceive.

Main Entry: 1mis·take
Pronunciation: m&-'stAk
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): mis·took  /-'stuk/; mis·tak·en  /-'stA-k&n/; mis·tak·ing
Etymology: Middle English, from Old Norse mistaka to take by mistake, from mis- + taka to take -- more at TAKE
Date: 14th century
transitive senses
1 : to blunder in the choice of <mistook her way in the dark>
2 a : to misunderstand the meaning or intention of : MISINTERPRET <don't mistake me, I mean exactly what I said> b : to make a wrong judgment of the character or ability of
3 : to identify wrongly : confuse with another <I mistook him for his brother>
intransitive senses : to be wrong <you mistook when you thought I laughed at you -- Thomas Hardy>
- mis·tak·en·ly adverb
- mis·tak·er noun


Main Entry: in·ten·tion·al
Pronunciation: in-'tench-n&l, -'ten(t)-sh&-n&l
Function: adjective
Date: circa 1727
1 : done by intention or design : INTENDED <intentional damage>
2 a : of or relating to epistemological intention b : having external reference
synonym see VOLUNTARY
- in·ten·tion·al·i·ty  /-"ten(t)-sh&-'na-l&-tE/ noun
- in·ten·tion·al·ly  /in-'tench-n&-lE, -'ten(t)-sh&-n&l-E/ adverb
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« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2004, 02:08:07 pm »
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Like I said, all politicians lie.

That does NOT mean that lies equate to making mistakes.  A mistake means that you had the facts in ERROR (either by confusion or lack of ability to arrive at the correct answer); not that you knew the facts and chose to tell a lie.  That is NOT a mistake, rather is a choice to intentionally deceive.

Main Entry: 1mis·take
Pronunciation: m&-'stAk
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): mis·took  /-'stuk/; mis·tak·en  /-'stA-k&n/; mis·tak·ing
Etymology: Middle English, from Old Norse mistaka to take by mistake, from mis- + taka to take -- more at TAKE
Date: 14th century
transitive senses
1 : to blunder in the choice of <mistook her way in the dark>
2 a : to misunderstand the meaning or intention of : MISINTERPRET <don't mistake me, I mean exactly what I said> b : to make a wrong judgment of the character or ability of
3 : to identify wrongly : confuse with another <I mistook him for his brother>
intransitive senses : to be wrong <you mistook when you thought I laughed at you -- Thomas Hardy>
- mis·tak·en·ly adverb
- mis·tak·er noun


Main Entry: in·ten·tion·al
Pronunciation: in-'tench-n&l, -'ten(t)-sh&-n&l
Function: adjective
Date: circa 1727
1 : done by intention or design : INTENDED <intentional damage>
2 a : of or relating to epistemological intention b : having external reference
synonym see VOLUNTARY
- in·ten·tion·al·i·ty  /-"ten(t)-sh&-'na-l&-tE/ noun
- in·ten·tion·al·ly  /in-'tench-n&-lE, -'ten(t)-sh&-n&l-E/ adverb

His point is that all politicians are sinners, by your definition, and that those who get caught are being stupid. What's wrong with that? All politicians lie a lot, especially in enviroenments like the American political one, where spinning and polling play such a major part in politics. That's why we have to keep them on a short leash.
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« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2004, 02:24:45 pm »
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His point is that all politicians are sinners, by your definition, and that those who get caught are being stupid. What's wrong with that?

Well, if you want to say Clark’s mistake was that he thought he could get away with it, that the minutes of Senate testimony couldn’t be compared against his lie, then yeah, I would say that was a major “mistake”, probably to such a level that it borders on lunacy.

It reveals Clark’s hunger for power and dovetails into the insubordination that ended his military career.
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« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2004, 02:26:52 pm »
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His point is that all politicians are sinners, by your definition, and that those who get caught are being stupid. What's wrong with that?

Well, if you want to say Clark’s mistake was that he thought he could get away with it, that the minutes of Senate testimony couldn’t be compared against his lie, then yeah, I would say that was a major “mistake”, probably to such a level that it borders on lunacy.

It reveals Clark’s hunger for power and dovetails into the insubordination that ended his military career.


Well, my first post said that if this is true, he's an idiot...

That he's a liar is to be expected, he's running for President, for crying out loud. Name a non-lying president ever...
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« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2004, 02:32:57 pm »
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JMF is loving his Drudge Report today.
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« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2004, 02:45:26 pm »
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everyone is but clark!

The GOP but also the dem rivals who will turn their fire on him next week.


JMF is loving his Drudge Report today.
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« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2004, 02:48:00 pm »
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Well, my first post said that if this is true, he's an idiot...

That he's a liar is to be expected, he's running for President, for crying out loud. Name a non-lying president ever...

I never said that people don’t lie.  We are all liars.

My first point was that lying couldn’t be considered a “mistake”, because it’s intentional.

---

My second point is regarding how it reveals Clark’s true character.

W is far from perfect, but I don’t remember him changing his positions on a major issue in order to run from president.  I remember Gore doing that, and that is the main reason why I can’t stand him.

If you were against the war – fine.  If you were for the war – fine.  But don’t lie about your position on an issue that is so important to many Americans.

And most of all, don’t insult the public’s intelligence by assuming that the American public is so dumb that it can’t compare Congressional testimony to a stated position during a campaign.

And NOT all politicians change their position simply to pander to the electorate – Zell Miller being a good example.  
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« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2004, 02:53:56 pm »
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Well, my first post said that if this is true, he's an idiot...

That he's a liar is to be expected, he's running for President, for crying out loud. Name a non-lying president ever...

I never said that people don’t lie.  We are all liars.

My first point was that lying couldn’t be considered a “mistake”, because it’s intentional.

---

My second point is regarding how it reveals Clark’s true character.

W is far from perfect, but I don’t remember him changing his positions on a major issue in order to run from president.  I remember Gore doing that, and that is the main reason why I can’t stand him.

If you were against the war – fine.  If you were for the war – fine.  But don’t lie about your position on an issue that is so important to many Americans.

And most of all, don’t insult the public’s intelligence by assuming that the American public is so dumb that it can’t compare Congressional testimony to a stated position during a campaign.

And NOT all politicians change their position simply to pander to the electorate – Zell Miller being a good example.  


I agree with you in principle. But politicians can get away with a lot. The PM of Sweden has done things which are so outrageous that one would think it impossible for him to remain, as has several of his ministers. They make for a lot of good jokes, but remain in power nonetheless.
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« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2004, 02:54:48 pm »
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Well, my first post said that if this is true, he's an idiot...

That he's a liar is to be expected, he's running for President, for crying out loud. Name a non-lying president ever...

I never said that people don’t lie.  We are all liars.

My first point was that lying couldn’t be considered a “mistake”, because it’s intentional.

---

My second point is regarding how it reveals Clark’s true character.

W is far from perfect, but I don’t remember him changing his positions on a major issue in order to run from president.  I remember Gore doing that, and that is the main reason why I can’t stand him.

If you were against the war – fine.  If you were for the war – fine.  But don’t lie about your position on an issue that is so important to many Americans.

And most of all, don’t insult the public’s intelligence by assuming that the American public is so dumb that it can’t compare Congressional testimony to a stated position during a campaign.

And NOT all politicians change their position simply to pander to the electorate – Zell Miller being a good example.  

So, if a somebody changes thir position to the helping of the Republicans (Zell), it's acceptable.  But is it is the other way around (Gore), it isn't.

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« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2004, 03:01:51 pm »
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W is far from perfect, but I don't remember him changing his positions on a major issue in order to run from president.  I remember Gore doing that, and that is the main reason why I can't stand him.
What about his claim that he was opposed to nation building?  Isn't that exactly what we're doing in Iraq?
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« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2004, 03:05:19 pm »
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W is far from perfect, but I don't remember him changing his positions on a major issue in order to run from president.  I remember Gore doing that, and that is the main reason why I can't stand him.
What about his claim that he was opposed to nation building?  Isn't that exactly what we're doing in Iraq?

Good point.
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« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2004, 03:07:31 pm »
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JMF is loving his Drudge Report today.

I don’t believe in promoting people accused of insubordination...If you can’t be trusted with responsibility, why on earth would you be given more?
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« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2004, 03:08:38 pm »
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JMF is loving his Drudge Report today.

I don’t believe in promoting people accused of insubordination...If you can’t be trusted with responsibility, why on earth would you be given more?
What does that have to do with anything?
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« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2004, 03:21:22 pm »
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What about his claim that he was opposed to nation building?  Isn't that exactly what we're doing in Iraq?

Yeah, and the isolationists prior to Pearl Harbor changed their minds after 12/7/1941.  That doesn't make them liars.  In that case, the isolationists misjudged the threat.

Bush's nation building comment had to do with low level conflicts, it was not in the context of terrorism or a major conflict or a major attack on the American mainland.  He was simply saying he doesn’t believe America should be mucking around trying to fine tweak the world when we could be minding our own business.

If I say that I prefer to keep to myself, that doesn’t mean I won’t become aggressive if attacked.

In other words, you’re comparing apples to oranges.
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