National Guard on Mexican Border?

[dazzleman]

Drudge reports that sources say President Bush is planning to use the national guard to restrict illegal immigration along the national border.  There is no specific article attached, but this article hints at it:

________________________________________________________


Pentagon exploring ways to use the military for border security


Associated Press

WASHINGTON  — Faced with growing pressure from southern states, the Bush administration wants the military to come up with ideas to help solve security problems along the U.S. border with Mexico.

In back-to-back moves this week, the Pentagon began exploring ways to lend support at the southern border, while the House on Thursday voted to allow the Homeland Security Department in limited cases to use soldiers in that region.

At the Pentagon, Paul McHale, the assistant secretary of defense for homeland defense, asked officials to offer options for the use of military resources and troops — particularly the National Guard — along the border with Mexico, according to defense officials familiar with the discussions.

The officials, who requested anonymity because the matter has not been made public, said there were no details yet on a defense strategy.

Thursday's House vote allowed Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld to assign military personnel under certain circumstances to help the Homeland Security Department with border security. The vote was 252-171, and the provision was added to a larger military measure.

The actions underscored the importance of the border and immigrations issues, yet were tentative enough to reflect worries about drawing the nation's armed forces into a politically sensitive domestic role.

Southern lawmakers met this week with White House strategist Karl Rove for a discussion that included making greater use of National Guard troops to shore up border control.

The Senate is poised to pass legislation this month that would call for additional border security, a new guest worker program and provisions opening the way to eventual citizenship for many of the estimated 11 million to 12 million illegal immigrants in the country.

"The Texas delegation is very concerned about the border and are pushing urgency," said Rep. Kevin Brady, R-Texas, who joined other Texas Republicans in a meeting with Rove this week. He said Rove was "very forthright" about border projects that Homeland Security is starting up, its current projects and what the needs are.

Rep. Ken Marchant, R-Texas, who also attended the meeting, said the lawmakers left "very encouraged."

The search for a military solution strikes a familiar chord. After Hurricane Katrina, President Bush pushed for a stronger military role in disasters, saying the Pentagon was best able to launch massive operations on a moments notice.

Currently, the military plays a very limited role along the borders, but some armed forces have been used in the past to help battle drug traffickers. National Guard units, meanwhile, have been used at times by Southern and Western governors to provide assistance at border crossings.

Arizona Gov. Janet Napolitano said the military help "is basically what she has been asking for," spokeswoman Jeanine L'Ecuyer said. Napolitano has been asking the Pentagon to send more National Guard troops — but not regular military — to confront illegal immigration from Mexico. About 170 National Guard troops are helping in such efforts in the state now.

Similarly, Texas Gov. Rick Perry hadn't specifically requested assistance from the military, but he liked the idea, according to spokeswoman Kathy Walt. "The assets are stretched thin, at least in Texas, because of the war on terror," she said. "The governor would welcome any effort by the federal government in meeting its responsibility to secure our border."

Defense officials said they have been asked to map out what military resources could be made available if needed, including options for using the National Guard under either state or federal control. The strategy also would explore the legal guidelines for use of the military on U.S. soil, the officials said.

The National Guard is generally under the control of the state governors, but Guard units can be federalized by the president, such as those sent to the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. Active duty military may not be used for law enforcement unless the president authorizes it.

Officials wrangled over the use of the active military during Hurricane Katrina, with some suggesting that troops be used for law enforcement to quell violence and looters in New Orleans. There were also suggestions that Bush federalize the National Guard there, but state officials opposed that proposal. In the end, neither move was made.

At its peak during Katrina, the military had about 22,000 active-duty troops in the Gulf region, along with about 50,000 National Guard troops operating under the state governors' command. The active- duty military provided ships, helicopters, search-and-rescue aid, evacuations and other assistance.

Afterward, Bush asked Pentagon officials to review ways to give the military a bigger role in responding to major disasters.

Under the Civil War-era Posse Comitatus Act, federal troops are prohibited from performing law enforcement actions, such as making arrests, seizing property or searching people. In extreme cases, however, the president can invoke the Insurrection Act, also from the Civil War, which allows him to use active-duty or National Guard troops for law enforcement.

[MODU]

I still don't favor this.  Our troops should not be used in that capacity.  That is why the Border Patrol was established.  You have people that are specifically trained in handling illegal immigrants through policing.  What we need is more agents and more buses.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

We need to put troops on the borders and in major cities to reduce the risk of illegal immigraiton and terrorism.

[Frodo]

Is there any particular reason why you don't have a Libertarian or Republican avatar? 

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

I find the yellow color scheme of the libertarian avatar to be... pathetic and I think I'd burst into flames if I were to put a GOP avatar on(ME being in the party of santorum).

[Nym90]

I still don't favor this.  Our troops should not be used in that capacity.  That is why the Border Patrol was established.  You have people that are specifically trained in handling illegal immigrants through policing.  What we need is more agents and more buses.

^^^^^^^^^^

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

More agents and more busses means that we've failed at our mission of keeping them out.

[Frodo]

Why is it so difficult for Mexico to become an economic powerhouse, the Latin American jaguar if you will, on par with Ireland?  If that were to happen we wouldn't even be having this debate.   

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

Why is it so difficult for Mexico to become an economic powerhouse, the Latin American jaguar if you will, on par with Ireland?  If that were to happen we wouldn't even be having this debate.   

Mexico's problems stem from corruption and an economy that's not opened up enough/efficient enough. Those 2 problems cause a whole cascading series of problems(poverty, crime, inefficient economic performance). I don't know how to fix all that but I imagine it wouldn't be easy.

[dazzleman]

Why is it so difficult for Mexico to become an economic powerhouse, the Latin American jaguar if you will, on par with Ireland?  If that were to happen we wouldn't even be having this debate.   

Mexico's problems stem from corruption and an economy that's not opened up enough/efficient enough. Those 2 problems cause a whole cascading series of problems(poverty, crime, inefficient economic performance). I don't know how to fix all that but I imagine it wouldn't be easy.

It's certainly not our responsibility to fix it.  Our tolerance for massive illegal immigration has provided the safety valve that has allowed Mexico to not fix this problem.  That's why Mexico's government is so insistent that it be allowed to continue.

Personally, I think we have to crack down because we can't allow these people to order us around.  They come here illegally and then hold massive demonstrations to demand that we change our policies and laws.  It's absurd.  If we don't stop it, they'll be outvoting us, and we'll lose all power in our own country.

Periods of massive immigration tend to be followed by periods of consolidation and assimilation, and that's what we need now.  We can't allow huge numbers of potentially hostile foreigner to live in our midst.

In that sense, I think the demonstrations backfired in bringing illegal immigrants to the average American's attention in a negative way.  Their chief asset, the chief reason they have been tolerated, is that they have been docile.  If they're not going to be docile, and if they're going to start to try to push us around while they're uninvited guests in our home, we have no choice but to strike back.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

Well said Dazzleman!

[MODU]

More agents and more busses means that we've failed at our mission of keeping them out.

You need the more agents to catch them at the border, and the more buses just to drive them right across, rather than giving them a note saying "Come back in 3 months for your deportation hearing."  There should be daily/weekly trips into Mexico to return what their government has lost.

Why is it so difficult for Mexico to become an economic powerhouse, the Latin American jaguar if you will, on par with Ireland?  If that were to happen we wouldn't even be having this debate.  

Mexico's problems stem from corruption and an economy that's not opened up enough/efficient enough. Those 2 problems cause a whole cascading series of problems(poverty, crime, inefficient economic performance). I don't know how to fix all that but I imagine it wouldn't be easy.

That's why my thought of a massive US economic invasion into Mexico is what's needed.  We can flood the northern third of their country with US stores and factories, creating huge demand of skilled and unskilled labor, paying them less than what they would make in the US, but more than what they'd make locally.  Reinforce that with the Border Patrol which catches the remaining illegals, and that would stem a bulk of our problem.  If Mexico doesn't like it (which I can't figure why they wouldn't since they'd be receiving a huge tax revenue influx), we can send them a bill for their expenses and accept the Northern third of their country as payment. 

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

More agents and more busses means that we've failed at our mission of keeping them out.

You need the more agents to catch them at the border, and the more buses just to drive them right across, rather than giving them a note saying "Come back in 3 months for your deportation hearing."  There should be daily/weekly trips into Mexico to return what their government has lost.

Why is it so difficult for Mexico to become an economic powerhouse, the Latin American jaguar if you will, on par with Ireland?  If that were to happen we wouldn't even be having this debate.   

Mexico's problems stem from corruption and an economy that's not opened up enough/efficient enough. Those 2 problems cause a whole cascading series of problems(poverty, crime, inefficient economic performance). I don't know how to fix all that but I imagine it wouldn't be easy.

That's why my thought of a massive US economic invasion into Mexico is what's needed.  We can flood the northern third of their country with US stores and factories, creating huge demand of skilled and unskilled labor, paying them less than what they would make in the US, but more than what they'd make locally.  Reinforce that with the Border Patrol which catches the remaining illegals, and that would stem a bulk of our problem.  If Mexico doesn't like it (which I can't figure why they wouldn't since they'd be receiving a huge tax revenue influx), we can send them a bill for their expenses and accept the Northern third of their country as payment. 

I'd support a massive economic and cultural invasion of mexico to tie it to the US and make it be closer and closer to America.

[MasterJedi]

Finally, this has been needed for awhile.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

Finally, this has been needed for awhile.

^^^^^^^

[NewFederalist]

I wonder where they will actually find some National Guard units that are not already tied down with overseas commitments. I agree that the Border Patrol was established for this purpose. Put the resources there.

[CARLHAYDEN]

I have heard from my sources that the 'national guard on the border' is merely a feint by Bush to try to remove some of the heat he is getting.

Bush continues to oppose building a fence (I prefer a ditch and wall combo), and believes that when the heat is off, he can just pull them off the border and revert to the status quo of easy illegal entry.

It won't work.

[J. J.]

I have heard from my sources that the 'national guard on the border' is merely a feint by Bush to try to remove some of the heat he is getting.

Bush continues to oppose building a fence (I prefer a ditch and wall combo), and believes that when the heat is off, he can just pull them off the border and revert to the status quo of easy illegal entry.

It won't work.

Ah, if there are no guards, what makes you think a fence, moat and wall will work.  Even East Berlin had guards on its wall.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Actually, wit6 a good barrier and an increase in Border Patrol with a President who won't tell them to ignore illegal crossers it would be VERY effective.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Jack Kelly in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette had the following to say:

Immigration could split the GOP. Conservatives -- and not just conservatives -- are incensed that our laws are not being enforced.

I support what the president says he's for -- stiffer border enforcement, coupled with larger quotas for legal immigration; a guest worker program; and a path to legalization for most illegals already here.

I think most Americans would, too -- if they were convinced the president were serious about controlling our borders, which is what is foremost on their minds.

Border enforcement has stiffened in the last year, but Mr. Bush continues to send the wrong signals. He's referred to the Minutemen, the civilians who patrol the borders, as "vigilantes." A report last week that the Border Patrol is informing the Mexicans of the locations of Minutemen patrols is the sort of thing that makes the base seethe with rage.

The president should express sympathy for the Minutemen, if not for all of their policy ideas. He should visit the ranchers whose property is being overrun, and listen to their stories. He should embrace the enforcement provisions in the House bill.

If he does so, he'd get both a comprehensive immigration policy and a rebound in the polls. But if he continues to give the impression he's unconcerned about enforcement, Mr. Bush's popularity could plummet to Nixonian levels.

[Frodo]

A wall, a ditch, an electric fence with barbed-wire, and landmines strewn all along the border zone should do the trick..... 

[phk]

Not needed, we need a free immigration policy with Mexico.

[Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon]

I still don't favor this.  Our troops should not be used in that capacity.  That is why the Border Patrol was established.  You have people that are specifically trained in handling illegal immigrants through policing.  What we need is more agents and more buses.

^^^^^^