Michigan Governor

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I'm really curious as to what people think on this--most everyone I've met (even some strong Dems.) and Dems. that I know have been strongly considering DeVos, due to MI's current economy.  I'm leaving this one open to everybody, but I'm really curious as to why MI voters pick who they pick.

[Nym90]

Granholm; I think she's done an excellent job considering the tough times the state has gone through. The fundamental problems with Michigan's economy have existed for a long time, and I feel that her efforts have been concentrated in the right areas in attemping to improve that.

[MissCatholic]

Devos is going to try and buy his way into office.

Democracy should never be about whoever has the most money wins. But when we have a billionnaire saying he will do everything that he can to win then Granholm cant compete with a billionnaire. Billionnaires dont like to lose. Granholm has done an excellent job but i think she will lose because Devos is putting everything he has into the campaign.

If he blows 80m does it matter? No exactly and thats why he will win.

[MasterJedi]

DeVos, Granholm's no good.

[MissCatholic]

DeVos, Granholm's no good.

Support the billionnaire buying his way into power. how much can his ego take?

[MaC]

Nomo, Hillary's buying her way into the presidency.

That said, DeVos.  Granholm has an awful agenda for education, hasn't done anything to help the economy (raising taxes) and hasn't done anything 'good' for us.  Now I know that DeVos might not be a good choice, (and I hate to use this line, but) he's not Granholm.

[ian]

Granholm; I think she's done an excellent job considering the tough times the state has gone through. The fundamental problems with Michigan's economy have existed for a long time, and I feel that her efforts have been concentrated in the right areas in attemping to improve that.

^^^^^^^

[Flying Dog]

Granholm. While she has made some mistakes I beleive she is now familiar with michigan politics and will do better in a second term. She is trying hard to keep jobs in michigan and just yesterday she made arrangments in Japan for 8 japanese companies to expand operations in Michigan. These expansions could add up to 18,000 jobs.

DeVos meanwhile has done nothing but blame granholm for the economy. While I respect him and even considered him for a while i think he doesnt know how to operate michigans political landscape. He will get nothing accomplished.

I think granholm will win it 53-46

[Nym90]

One thing I don't like about Devos is the fact that he was CEO of Amway, which is essentially a legalized Ponzi scheme.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Granholm; I think she's done an excellent job considering the tough times the state has gone through. The fundamental problems with Michigan's economy have existed for a long time, and I feel that her efforts have been concentrated in the right areas in attemping to improve that.

She has killed our economy.  We now have the 2nd worst economy behind Louisianna (because of Hurr. Katrina)--if we haven't passed them by now.  She has done nothing to improve our school system.  Dick DeVos has a plan--she's done nothing but ruin our wonderful state.  Thankfully she could never run for President--send her back to Canada.

[Flying Dog]

Granholm; I think she's done an excellent job considering the tough times the state has gone through. The fundamental problems with Michigan's economy have existed for a long time, and I feel that her efforts have been concentrated in the right areas in attemping to improve that.

She has killed our economy.  We now have the 2nd worst economy behind Louisianna (because of Hurr. Katrina)--if we haven't passed them by now.  She has done nothing to improve our school system.  Dick DeVos has a plan--she's done nothing but ruin our wonderful state.  Thankfully she could never run for President--send her back to Canada.

we are also better then Washington State

[Nym90]

The President's economic policies have hit Michigan especially hard. She's had to deal with large budget deficits due to this, and the resulting spending cuts to balance the budget certainly haven't helped the economy. She's managed to balance the budget without raising taxes, which is impressive. I also feel that the focus on encouraging entrepreneuism as well as focus on retention of younger people will have a huge positive effect on the economy in coming years, though it will probably take a while for this to come to fruition.

[MaC]

Granholm; I think she's done an excellent job considering the tough times the state has gone through. The fundamental problems with Michigan's economy have existed for a long time, and I feel that her efforts have been concentrated in the right areas in attemping to improve that.

She has killed our economy.  We now have the 2nd worst economy behind Louisianna (because of Hurr. Katrina)--if we haven't passed them by now.  She has done nothing to improve our school system.  Dick DeVos has a plan--she's done nothing but ruin our wonderful state.  Thankfully she could never run for President--send her back to Canada.

^^

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Granholm; I think she's done an excellent job considering the tough times the state has gone through. The fundamental problems with Michigan's economy have existed for a long time, and I feel that her efforts have been concentrated in the right areas in attemping to improve that.

She has killed our economy.  We now have the 2nd worst economy behind Louisianna (because of Hurr. Katrina)--if we haven't passed them by now.  She has done nothing to improve our school system.  Dick DeVos has a plan--she's done nothing but ruin our wonderful state.  Thankfully she could never run for President--send her back to Canada.

we are also better then Washington State

OK, I'm sorry--3rd in the U.S.--but that's not a big improvement.  I do have to admit--not all of it is her fault.  Some of it lies with the fact that we have so many unions who are always going on strike and hurting companies.  I would like nothing better than for Delphi to end its contract w/ the UAW, and then see the UAW crash and burn.  They complain that their benefits and pay are getting cut, yet that have some of the best benefits and wages per hour out there!  That said, I would like to see Dick DeVos who is not somebody who has been in bed with all the Unions since he began politics.

[Flying Dog]

Granholm; I think she's done an excellent job considering the tough times the state has gone through. The fundamental problems with Michigan's economy have existed for a long time, and I feel that her efforts have been concentrated in the right areas in attemping to improve that.

She has killed our economy.  We now have the 2nd worst economy behind Louisianna (because of Hurr. Katrina)--if we haven't passed them by now.  She has done nothing to improve our school system.  Dick DeVos has a plan--she's done nothing but ruin our wonderful state.  Thankfully she could never run for President--send her back to Canada.

we are also better then Washington State

OK, I'm sorry--3rd in the U.S.--but that's not a big improvement.  I do have to admit--not all of it is her fault.  Some of it lies with the fact that we have so many unions who are always going on strike and hurting companies.  I would like nothing better than for Delphi to end its contract w/ the UAW, and then see the UAW crash and burn.  They complain that their benefits and pay are getting cut, yet that have some of the best benefits and wages per hour out there!  That said, I would like to see Dick DeVos who is not somebody who has been in bed with all the Unions since he began politics.

Once people get something they dont want to give it up. It is human nature. Unions protect employees from the sometimes greedy, corrupt corporate execs and we need them. Dick DeVos needs to know how to work with the unions or else he would not get anything accomplished.

[Nym90]

Granholm; I think she's done an excellent job considering the tough times the state has gone through. The fundamental problems with Michigan's economy have existed for a long time, and I feel that her efforts have been concentrated in the right areas in attemping to improve that.

She has killed our economy.  We now have the 2nd worst economy behind Louisianna (because of Hurr. Katrina)--if we haven't passed them by now.  She has done nothing to improve our school system.  Dick DeVos has a plan--she's done nothing but ruin our wonderful state.  Thankfully she could never run for President--send her back to Canada.

we are also better then Washington State

OK, I'm sorry--3rd in the U.S.--but that's not a big improvement.  I do have to admit--not all of it is her fault.  Some of it lies with the fact that we have so many unions who are always going on strike and hurting companies.  I would like nothing better than for Delphi to end its contract w/ the UAW, and then see the UAW crash and burn.  They complain that their benefits and pay are getting cut, yet that have some of the best benefits and wages per hour out there!  That said, I would like to see Dick DeVos who is not somebody who has been in bed with all the Unions since he began politics.

Once people get something they dont want to give it up. It is human nature. Unions protect employees from the sometimes greedy, corrupt corporate execs and we need them. Dick DeVos needs to know how to work with the unions or else he would not get anything accomplished.

Exactly.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Granholm; I think she's done an excellent job considering the tough times the state has gone through. The fundamental problems with Michigan's economy have existed for a long time, and I feel that her efforts have been concentrated in the right areas in attemping to improve that.

She has killed our economy.  We now have the 2nd worst economy behind Louisianna (because of Hurr. Katrina)--if we haven't passed them by now.  She has done nothing to improve our school system.  Dick DeVos has a plan--she's done nothing but ruin our wonderful state.  Thankfully she could never run for President--send her back to Canada.

we are also better then Washington State

OK, I'm sorry--3rd in the U.S.--but that's not a big improvement.  I do have to admit--not all of it is her fault.  Some of it lies with the fact that we have so many unions who are always going on strike and hurting companies.  I would like nothing better than for Delphi to end its contract w/ the UAW, and then see the UAW crash and burn.  They complain that their benefits and pay are getting cut, yet that have some of the best benefits and wages per hour out there!  That said, I would like to see Dick DeVos who is not somebody who has been in bed with all the Unions since he began politics.

Once people get something they dont want to give it up. It is human nature. Unions protect employees from the sometimes greedy, corrupt corporate execs and we need them. Dick DeVos needs to know how to work with the unions or else he would not get anything accomplished.

I disagree--we needED the unions, but now a company can't get away with mistreatment of workers (other than illegal immigrants, but that's a whole nother issue).  The only reason the unions like Granholm is b/c they live off of all the benefits and above-normal wages--so they want her to pay for their drugs and other stuff when they get older.  We need to get out of being dependent on welfare, or else the entire country will crash and burn like the USSR--to quote from a documentary--"spend into oblivion"--we out-spent money on missiles and made them bankrupt--its the same principle, except we're doing it to ourselves w/ welfare.

[Flying Dog]

Granholm; I think she's done an excellent job considering the tough times the state has gone through. The fundamental problems with Michigan's economy have existed for a long time, and I feel that her efforts have been concentrated in the right areas in attemping to improve that.

She has killed our economy.  We now have the 2nd worst economy behind Louisianna (because of Hurr. Katrina)--if we haven't passed them by now.  She has done nothing to improve our school system.  Dick DeVos has a plan--she's done nothing but ruin our wonderful state.  Thankfully she could never run for President--send her back to Canada.

we are also better then Washington State

OK, I'm sorry--3rd in the U.S.--but that's not a big improvement.  I do have to admit--not all of it is her fault.  Some of it lies with the fact that we have so many unions who are always going on strike and hurting companies.  I would like nothing better than for Delphi to end its contract w/ the UAW, and then see the UAW crash and burn.  They complain that their benefits and pay are getting cut, yet that have some of the best benefits and wages per hour out there!  That said, I would like to see Dick DeVos who is not somebody who has been in bed with all the Unions since he began politics.

Once people get something they dont want to give it up. It is human nature. Unions protect employees from the sometimes greedy, corrupt corporate execs and we need them. Dick DeVos needs to know how to work with the unions or else he would not get anything accomplished.

I disagree--we needED the unions, but now a company can't get away with mistreatment of workers (other than illegal immigrants, but that's a whole nother issue).  The only reason the unions like Granholm is b/c they live off of all the benefits and above-normal wages--so they want her to pay for their drugs and other stuff when they get older.  We need to get out of being dependent on welfare, or else the entire country will crash and burn like the USSR--to quote from a documentary--"spend into oblivion"--we out-spent money on missiles and made them bankrupt--its the same principle, except we're doing it to ourselves w/ welfare.

Companies still get away with a lot of mistreatment in todays world. Maybe not like the kind they got away with back in the early years but they still do get away with somethings. People are getting their benifits and wages CUT DURING GRANHOLMS ADMINISTRATION. So the unions are warming up to the wrong person then. The only reason that they are getting cut is because GM, Ford and the other U.S. automotive companies are stubborn and will not invest in future gas saving cars and technology. They stubbornly cling to their belief that SUV'S are the way to go. Workers are paying for their mistakes. I dont think we are dependent on welfare. If we are then why are they cutting it so much? I actually believe we need to increase funding for it. But that is kinda hard because the Repulican controlled state legislature drags their feet everytime granholm wants to get something done.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Granholm; I think she's done an excellent job considering the tough times the state has gone through. The fundamental problems with Michigan's economy have existed for a long time, and I feel that her efforts have been concentrated in the right areas in attemping to improve that.

She has killed our economy.  We now have the 2nd worst economy behind Louisianna (because of Hurr. Katrina)--if we haven't passed them by now.  She has done nothing to improve our school system.  Dick DeVos has a plan--she's done nothing but ruin our wonderful state.  Thankfully she could never run for President--send her back to Canada.

we are also better then Washington State

OK, I'm sorry--3rd in the U.S.--but that's not a big improvement.  I do have to admit--not all of it is her fault.  Some of it lies with the fact that we have so many unions who are always going on strike and hurting companies.  I would like nothing better than for Delphi to end its contract w/ the UAW, and then see the UAW crash and burn.  They complain that their benefits and pay are getting cut, yet that have some of the best benefits and wages per hour out there!  That said, I would like to see Dick DeVos who is not somebody who has been in bed with all the Unions since he began politics.

Once people get something they dont want to give it up. It is human nature. Unions protect employees from the sometimes greedy, corrupt corporate execs and we need them. Dick DeVos needs to know how to work with the unions or else he would not get anything accomplished.

I disagree--we needED the unions, but now a company can't get away with mistreatment of workers (other than illegal immigrants, but that's a whole nother issue).  The only reason the unions like Granholm is b/c they live off of all the benefits and above-normal wages--so they want her to pay for their drugs and other stuff when they get older.  We need to get out of being dependent on welfare, or else the entire country will crash and burn like the USSR--to quote from a documentary--"spend into oblivion"--we out-spent money on missiles and made them bankrupt--its the same principle, except we're doing it to ourselves w/ welfare.

Companies still get away with a lot of mistreatment in todays world. Maybe not like the kind they got away with back in the early years but they still do get away with somethings. People are getting their benifits and wages CUT DURING GRANHOLMS ADMINISTRATION. So the unions are warming up to the wrong person then. The only reason that they are getting cut is because GM, Ford and the other U.S. automotive companies are stubborn and will not invest in future gas saving cars and technology. They stubbornly cling to their belief that SUV'S are the way to go. Workers are paying for their mistakes. I dont think we are dependent on welfare. If we are then why are they cutting it so much? I actually believe we need to increase funding for it. But that is kinda hard because the Repulican controlled state legislature drags their feet everytime granholm wants to get something done.

What about the meeting about Hybrid cars w/ the Big 3 in D.C. right now?  Why would you want to increase funding for welfare, when the state is going into debt.  Granholm is a Canadian--they're whole healthcare system is gvt. run, and look what's happening there.  Granholm is a Canadian socialist (not in an evil bad way--just she's more social than most U.S. people).

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

In the end, I doubt that Mr. DeVos will be able to win. I know he means well, but he just won't be able to offset the recent Democratic lean of a Michigan statewide election dispite his best effort and monies spent.

Growing up in the Grand Rapids area, the name Devos was well known as the family behind "Scamway".  I remember those phone calls at dinner time from some young and energetic new member of the Amway team who was going to make you rich if you joined him in his new get rich quick plan.  To my knowlege, this never happened, or if it did, I never heard of it happening. 

Do we want a person who ran this type of business (even if it was successful) as our governor?

Let's not forget that Mr. DeVos sperheaded the school voucher proposal that failed in every county in 2000.

Lets not forget that there are pictues of Mr. DeVos with Carl Rove.  Lets not forget that he gave large contributions to President Bush who has horrible approval ratings in Michigan.  Lets not forget his connections to Jack Abrahmoff.  He also has ties to the religious right which is always contoversial.  For better or for worse these things will come up and will be his version of being "swiftboated"

Lets not forget that his wife has said that businesses are leaving Michigan because wages are too high.  Even if this is true, I pose this question to any conservative reading this.  Are your wages to high?  No matter how hard you have worked to get where you are, if you are employed, there is someone who wishes he could pay you less.

We must also not forget that the economy in Michigan is not Ms. Granholms fault any more than the national economy's woes are the direct fault of President Bush.  If there is one thing that I agree with conservatives on is that the free market runs itself.  If this is true, for a conservative to blame Ms. Granholm, is streaching a point of view to fit ones own partisianship.  General motors problem is that it is not competing in the maketplace by building cars people want to buy.  If they could sell more cars, the demands of the unions could be met with ease.

In the end, one has to wonder how a Billionaire can relate with Michigan's blue collar culture.  Since he is a Republican, I'm sure he will start talking about religion and values.  If he does, I want everyone to wonder if a billionaire can get to where he is without commiting a few sins.   Think about that one for a while.

I do have to agree w/ you about Amway--that will hurt him.  Also, I'd like to correct myself--I did not intend to blame the MI economy on Granholm--the point I meant to get across is that she is driving our state into debt and hurting small businesses with the taxes.

So what if his voucher proposal died?  What does that have anything to do w/ a 2006 Gubernatorial race?

Granholm's problem is that she would drive our state into more debt if she could--she's a social Canadian--it's my belief that she would want to make healthcare as a whole a gvt.-run system.  She wants to add more help and socialism to the state when the budget says we need to do just the opposite.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

The school voucher proposal is just an example of how his experimental far right views don't seem to jibe with most voters of both parties in the state of Michigan. 

In the end, Mr. DeVos will probably be the Republican Party's version of Geoffry Feiger, except his money will help him along a bit more.

Another thing that will swing things the governor's way are the current anti Republican trends going into next fall's elections.   Democrats are more eager to vote according to some polls.   And lets not forget that Michigan has straight party voting.  And lets not forget that Senator Stabenow is sky high in the polls.  It's not likely that enough Democrats will split their ticket to vote for Mr. DeVos.  He keeps company with people who they are voting against when they cast their vote for Senator Stabenow.

When you think of it,  it has cost Mr. DeVos several million dollars to break even with the Governor in the polls, and she has done no advertising.  When she does, there will likely be a bump in her favor that will put her out front.  As of yet, all we have seen are happy ads telling us what we want to hear from Mr. DeVos.  The mud has yet to be slung and when it does, the Amway man can't help but be on the shorter end of that stick.

I mean no disrespect to Mr. DeVos. I'm sure he is a real nice man, but I just don't want the Amway man as my governor no matter how many shortcomings Governor Granholm may be said to have. 

I wonder how many Amway calls I've hung up on over the years?  :-)

I have to disagree with you:
1. Geoffry Feiger didn't get voted into office because he's too liberal.
2. Honestly, most elections DO depend on who turns out.  Probably the only one that doesn't is D.C.'s presidential election.  So I agree with you on this point that if the Dems. do win it will be b/c of turn-out.  But remember, if the media promotes that, that will incite Reps. to come out and balance that out, while making Dems. think that they don't have to go out and vote.
3. So what if we have straight party voting (I think we got rid of it anyway)?
4. What does a Senator have to do with the governor?  U.S. vs. State politics.
5. I know of Dems., one in peticular (who voted for Mondale and McGovern, and would've voted against George Washington if he'd have been a Rep.) who has talked about voting for DeVos (but will vote for Granholm b/c she won't change on anything--buys gas from the same gas station even though it's up to 10 cents higher sometimes).

The one thing that will hurt him is the Amway Man tag.  Just curious, where are you from, and what party are you afiliated with?  Do you have an Atlas account with predictions?

[Jake]

Like you spoke of, it does happen, and I suppose some Stabinow voters will vote for DeVos.  But if she is still 20 or so points ahead in November, Mr. DeVos will not make it in my humble opinion.

That obviously didn't happen in 2002, when a full 9% of Levin voters jumped to Posthumus. Nor did it happen in 1994, when around 5% of Engler voters also voted for Bob Carr. Or in 1990 when 9% of Levin voters also voted for Engler. So, I find it doubtful that all voters will vote straight ticket in 2006, especially since state races are *usually* less partisan from national races.

[Republican Michigander]

DeVos

In four years of Granholm, we've had no plan except "Cool Cities" and blaming John Engler or Bush.

The other states are adding jobs. We're losing them. It's time for a less government conservative here.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I don't proclaim a political party, but am generally a pretty liberal guy.  Not one of those old school bleeding hearts, but one of the newer brand of liberals who does not believe that the constitution says anything about Big Brother legislating morality.   We are all Americans, and we are all liberal at heart.  Unless you plan to someday refuse your social security check, you have participated in a socialist ideal.  If you know a woman who votes, she can thank a liberal movement called Womans Sufferage for her right to do so.  Etc, etc.

Governor Granholm will never get any kind of government heathcare in her time, so I wouldn't worry about weather or not she likes it.   

I would contend that conservatives are the biggest fans of national heathcare - as long as it is not in the US.  After all, businesses who outsouce to China, India, etc, enjoy not only lower wages, but the fact that the government takes care of their employee's healthcare.  We have lost manufactuing opportunities here in Michigan because right accross the border in Canada (a capitalist country), healthcare is not the problem of the business owner.  And by the way,  the cost of helthcare has less to do with lawsuits than it does patients who are uninsured or underinsured who never pay the bills for their hospital stays.  And yes, for better or for worse, we will someday have it.  Eventually, after the problems with healthcare get worse and worse, the only way to get elected will be to get on that bandwagon.  I hope they do a better job than they did with Medicare D or we are all in deep trouble.

I see the Governors race tied closely to a Senatorial race.  I presume you vote consistantly Republican.  Given that fact, do you slip over to the other party very often while filling out your ballot?   Mr. DeVos is the Amway man and you agree that that is a problem.  Does that mean that you might vote for Governor Granholm.   Probably not, and that's what I was getting at.  Like you spoke of, it does happen, and I suppose some Stabinow voters will vote for DeVos.  But if she is still 20 or so points ahead in November, Mr. DeVos will not make it in my humble opinion.

When you say Feiger lost because he is too liberal, I contend that DeVos will loose because he is too conservative (ha ha).    Actually, Feiger probably lost because he was a bit odd.  Being liberal is not a bad thing that hinders political opportunity or else we wouldn't have so many of them elected to office (the same can be said for conservatives).  Once again, I say that we are all liberals at heart.  Just compare us to Saudi Arabia and you will understand what I mean.

By the way, to answer your question,  I live in the thumb area, and grew up in rural West Michigan.

I never said that I'm opposed to SOME socialism, however, not to the extent that the liberals would want it--that would bankrupt us.

I also have to say that not a lot of Dems. are as mad at Stabenow as they are at Granholm, so I think the crossover is going to be much bigger than you thought.

To answer your question, yes I have OCCASIONALLY crossed the party line, but not normally--most conservatives agree with what I believe.

You didn't answer my question about whether you have an atlas profile--If so, I'd like to see your prediction maps.

[Flying Dog]

DeVos

In four years of Granholm, we've had no plan except "Cool Cities" and blaming John Engler or Bush.

And you think Mr. DeVos would have a better plan, do you? He endorsed Granholms economic plan for god sakes!