Montenegrin referendum

[minionofmidas]

I don't. No reason to really, except that it'd tidy up Serbia's constitutional arrangements. (Odd fact: though from Serbia politically, Slobodan Milosevic was actually Montenegrin.)

[minionofmidas]

I don't. No reason to really, except that it'd tidy up Serbia's constitutional arrangements. (Odd fact: though from Serbia politically, Slobodan Milosevic was actually Montenegrin.)

I don't know where his parents came from originally, but Milosevic was born and grew up in Serbia, quite far from Montenegrin border (in Pozarevac, to be specific).

Of course, Montenegrins and Serbs speak the same language, write using the same alphabet(s) and have the same religion, but there is a distinct identity, though it might be somewhat fluid, and Montenegro had been independent for a long time before Serbia got its own independence.  At present, the union links with Serbia are extremely weak and getting weaker. They don't even use the Serbian currency (they use euro instead). Independence would tidy things up, for sure - the only alternative is greater integration, as the current nominal union is extremely unstable and is not serving much of a purpose. There isn't really much less (or more) argument for Montenegrin independence than there is for Moldovan, Austrian or New Zealandian (from, say, Australia).  Whatever makes them happier.  And, by the way, independent Montenegro would have a much easier time getting into the EU: they are small, they don't have to search for war criminals, they already use the euro anyway - chances are, they'd be accepted at the same time as Croatia, or even before it.

All true, of course. (Well, not quite sure about the War Criminals part actually...) But hey, who wants things tidy?

[minionofmidas]

"And even the transport system has become divided. Free railway tickets are being offered in Serbia for Montenegrins to return home to vote against independence. Meanwhile dozens of extra aircraft have been flying in Montenegrins living abroad, at no expense, so they can vote for independence.

Indeed, the result of the referendum may be very close and it could be the diaspora that ultimately decides the republic's fate. "

Uh-oh. That sounds bad. Reminds me of the 1921 referenda about the German-Polish border...
Btw, 55% yes is required for independence, but there's no turnout threshold. It's likely going to be quite tight.

[minionofmidas]

Here's an interesting note from the wiki article, which also relates to what ag just said:

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Wow, nice that they're actually willing to admit the thing that no one else in the region will. I wonder if anyone has ever insisted that we speak "American" and they speak "British" in Britain.

Your kids will have to take "English Scottish American and Newzealander" classes in school, I'm afraid.

[minionofmidas]

I am loving this country more and more. As I said, Latin is the only alphabetic option on almost any gov't and media webpage I've found. On one of them (radio-TV of Montenegro) I've found the list of municipalities (opshtinas) with the number of voters in each. Here it is, exactly as on the page:

Andrijevica - 4.369
Bar - 32.255
Berane - 28.342
Bijelo Polje - 40.110
Budva - 12.797
Danilovgrad - 11.784
Žabljak - 3.407
Kolašin - 7.405
Kotor - 17.778
Mojkovac - 7.645
Nikši? - 56.461
Plav - 12.662
Plužine - 3.329
Pljevlja - 27.882
Podgorica - 129.083
Rožaje - 19.646
Tivat - 10.776
Ulcinj - 17.117
Herceg Novi - 24.487
Cetinje - 15.077
Šavnik - 2.306

A brownie point for everyone who figures out the order in which the municipalities are listed

Cyrillic alphabetical, I would hope.

[minionofmidas]

By 7 PM w/ 2 hours to go turnout was 82.8%. In the North the number is 82.4%, in the Center it is 84.6% and in the South 79.3%. It is now 8:30 PM - half an hour to go.

Nothing on coastal vs inland?

Yeah yeah, 20 seconds rule... shoot it.

[minionofmidas]

I get a brownie! Munch.

[minionofmidas]

What form of government will they choose? Are there any plans for a restoration?

I assume that it'll be the same form of government they have now...

Montenegro has been quasi-independent for some time and the referendum probably just formalized it. Well, they will have their own national soccer team now, but aside form this it won't make much difference.

Or are there plans to scrap their current constitution?

What happens to the national soccer team now? 

It'll remain one until after the 2008 Euros, since the draw for the qualification groups for that is already past. There are two Montenegrins on Serbia-M's 23 member squad for the World Cup.

[minionofmidas]

Rumour has it with 90-odd % counted it's 55.5% yes. The opposition seems to believe that figure to be correct too, apparently.
Official results, including partial results, won't be released until the count's completed, later today.

[minionofmidas]

And the mapmakers of the world can rejoice, because now they have a reason to sell new atlai.

Atlantes.

[minionofmidas]

By the way, why is it that in English we use the Italian translation of the country's name?  I guess, Crna Gora sounds too barbarian

Well we also tend to use the Italian name for Kerkyra/Corfù, and used to do so for a number of places around there (Ragusa/Dubrovnik, Zante/Zakynthos, Cefalù/Kephallonia, Durazzo/Durres, etc)

[minionofmidas]

Results by Opstina...

yes wins               no wins                 yes wins by insufficient margin
Rozaje 91.3          Pluzine 75.7          Podgorica 53.9
Ulcinj 88.5            Andrijevica 72.3     Danilovgrad 53.6
Cetinje 86.4         Herceg Novi 61.3   Budva 53.3
Plav 78.9              Zabljak 61.3          Niksic 52.6
Bar 63.7               Pljevlja 63.7
Tivat 56.4             Kolasin 57.8
Kotor 55.7            Savnik 56.9
Bijelo Polje 55.6   Mojkovac 56.1
                            Berane 52.8

[minionofmidas]

Looks as if ethic Albanians carried Crna Gora to independence. What do they call Montenegro in Albanian?

[minionofmidas]

Not only Albanians, but also Slavic Muslims, methinks.

Might be. I know a couple of Sandzakis here in Frankfurt - in fact the mother of one of my best friends is married to one - maybe I should ask him.

Then again, he's never struck me as politically interested in the least.

[minionofmidas]

What form of government will they choose? Are there any plans for a restoration?

I assume that it'll be the same form of government they have now...

Montenegro has been quasi-independent for some time and the referendum probably just formalized it. Well, they will have their own national soccer team now, but aside form this it won't make much difference.

Or are there plans to scrap their current constitution?

What happens to the national soccer team now? 

It'll remain one until after the 2008 Euros, since the draw for the qualification groups for that is already past. There are two Montenegrins on Serbia-M's 23 member squad for the World Cup.

Couldn't they just put Montenegro in a different group? As I understand it, SCG is in a group with one more country than all the others.

Well the filing deadline, obviously, was even before that.

[minionofmidas]

Everybody else will once the legal problems are sorted out.