How would you vote if you were a UK MP

[Serenity Now]

Here's a few controversial bills that have been through the House of Commons in recent years, out of sheer curiousity i am wondering who would here would vote for, against or abstain on them:

Given a comment made by Al, I should point out that this is assuming you are a backbencher, if you are a member of the government you are bound to "collective responsibility" and cannot vote against your party whip: Take the anti-war amendment listed below, Clare Short voted against it with the government.


Terrorism bill - 9.11.2005
MPs voted on a government proposal to extend the maximum period for police detention of a terrorist suspect without charge to 90 days. The government was defeated, with 49 Labour MPs rebelling.  For 
Terror bill 'intent' amendment - 2.11.2005

ID cards bill (3rd reading) - 18.10.2005
A government bill to introduce identity cards. 25 Labour MPs opposed the bill's third reading, and others voted for opposition amendments.

Prevention of terrorism bill (3rd reading) - 28.2.2005
MPs voted on an amendment to make all control orders at the discretion of a judge. Rebels voted in favour. The amendment was defeated and the bill given its third reading.

Identity cards - 20.12.2004
MPs voted on the second reading of the government's identity cards bill. The Conservative frontbench supported the measure, with Labour and Tory rebels voting against
 
Hunting ban - 15.9.2004
The government reintroduced a bill to ban foxhunting and hare coursing, to be debated and voted on over the course of one day. MPs voted 356 to 166 in favour of the ban.

Higher education funding bill - 27.1.2004
MPs voted on the second reading of the government's higher education bill - which included plans for variable student tuition fees. Rebels voted against.

Rebel Amendment on Foundation Hospitals - 8.7.2003
MPs voted on Frank Dobson's amendment to remove references to foundation hospitals from the health and social care bill. Rebels voted in favour. The amendment was defeated by 35 votes.

Amendment to government Iraq motion - 18.3.2003
MPs debating the Iraq crisis voted on an anti-war amendment. Rebels voted in favour. The motion was defeated.

Anti-war amendment in the Iraq debate - 26.2.2003
MPs voted on an amendment tabled by Chris Smith and Douglas Hogg. The amendment was not carried. Rebels voted in favour.

All-appointed Lords - 4.2.2003
Motion to appoint all peers in a future House of Lords. The prime minister backed the introduction of this option. Cabinet rebels voted against, although this was a free vote. Motion was defeated.

All-elected Lords - 4.2.2003
Motion to introduce a fully elected House of Lords. The leader of the Commons backed this option. All MPs given a free vote.

UN resolution 1441 - 25.11.2002
Liberal Democrat amendment limiting justification for war with Iraq without further UN sanction. Rebels voted for the amendment.

Adoption and children - 4.11.2002
Vote on government plan to allow unmarried and gay couples to adopt children. Supporters voted for. The motion was passed. 

Full ban on hunting with dogs - 18.3.2002
Proposal to completely ban hunting wild mammals with dogs. Supporters voted in favour. 

Licensing of hunting with dogs - 18.3.2002
A compromise proposal to allow foxhunting to continue under licence 

Home Office anti-terrorism legislation - 21.11.2001
Vote on the contoversial bill giving the governemnt the right to detain foreign terrorists without trial. Rebels voted against. The motion was passed.

International action against terrorism - 1.11.2001
Rebel vote against government's backing for airstrikes on Afghanistan. Rebels voted for. Motion was lost.

Extension of freedom of information legislation - 5.4.2000
Amendment to extend scope of freedom of information bill.
Related articles Extension of freedom of information legislation

Age of consent February 2000 - 10.2.2000
Vote on government plan to lower age of consent for gay sex to 16. Supporters voted for.

Opposition to incapacity benefits means test - 20.5.1999
Motion to block government plans to limit access to incapacity benefit. Rebels voted for. Motion was defeated.

[they don't love you like i love you]

Terrorism bill - 9.11.2005 - Nay

ID cards bill (3rd reading) - 18.10.2005 - Nay

Prevention of terrorism bill (3rd reading) - 28.2.2005 - Aye

Identity cards - 20.12.2004 - Nay
 
Hunting ban - 15.9.2004 - Nay

Higher education funding bill - 27.1.2004 - Aye

Rebel Amendment on Foundation Hospitals - 8.7.2003 - Aye

Amendment to government Iraq motion - 18.3.2003 - Aye

Anti-war amendment in the Iraq debate - 26.2.2003 - Aye

All-appointed Lords - 4.2.2003 - Nay

All-elected Lords - 4.2.2003 - Aye

UN resolution 1441 - 25.11.2002 - Aye

Adoption and children - 4.11.2002 - Aye

Full ban on hunting with dogs - 18.3.2002 - Nay

Licensing of hunting with dogs - 18.3.2002 - Aye

Home Office anti-terrorism legislation - 21.11.2001 - Nay

International action against terrorism - 1.11.2001 - Abstain

Extension of freedom of information legislation - 5.4.2000 - Aye

Age of consent February 2000 - 10.2.2000 - Aye

Opposition to incapacity benefits means test - 20.5.1999 - Aye

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Here's a few controversial bills that have been through the House of Commons in recent years, out of sheer curiousity i am wondering who would here would vote for, against or abstain on them:

I have nowt better to do so...

...this is assuming that I'm a backbencher right? Because if you're a minister you vote Aye even if you've got misgivings... Government be a collective thing after all...

...oh and "doing a Taylor" means to vote both Aye and Nay to a bill in order to have my abstention recorded...

Terrorism bill - 9.11.2005 ~ Do a Taylor

ID cards bill (3rd reading) ~ Not an issue I care about. But my constituents would be in favour. So Aye.

Prevention of terrorism bill (3rd reading) ~ can't recall the details of this...

Identity cards - 20.12.2004 ~ See Other ID vote
 
Hunting ban - 15.9.2004 ~ AYE!

Higher education funding bill - Aye

Rebel Amendment on Foundation Hospitals - Would have depended upon what my constituents wanted. If they didn't care, do a Taylor.

Amendment to government Iraq motion - Abstain/Do what constituents want.

Anti-war amendment in the Iraq debate - See above

All-appointed Lords - 4.2.2003 ~ Nay

All-elected Lords - 4.2.2003 ~ Aye

UN resolution 1441 - 25.11.2002 ~ Nay (I ain't voting for a LibDem thing...)

Adoption and children - 4.11.2002 ~ Aye

Full ban on hunting with dogs - ~ AYE!

Licensing of hunting with dogs - Nay 

Home Office anti-terrorism legislation - Do a Taylor

International action against terrorism - Nay

Extension of freedom of information legislation - 5.4.2000 -- Canna recall the details of that. What were they?

Age of consent February 2000 - 10.2.2000 ~ Aye

Opposition to incapacity benefits means test - 20.5.1999 ~ Nay (and I do know a thing or too about the benefits system).

[Peter]

Here's a few controversial bills that have been through the House of Commons in recent years, out of sheer curiousity i am wondering who would here would vote for, against or abstain on them:


Terrorism bill - 9.11.2005 - Against 90 days.
 
Terror bill 'intent' amendment - 2.11.2005 - whose intent amendment - there was a Labour and opposition one.

ID cards bill (3rd reading) - 18.10.2005 - Against third reading

Prevention of terrorism bill (3rd reading) - 28.2.2005 - for the Amendment

Identity cards - 20.12.2004 - Against second reading
 
Hunting ban - 15.9.2004 - I would have returned home to do constituency work. Couldn't care less.

Higher education funding bill - 27.1.2004 - Against, but I could have voted for it if all the social engineering bull like access tsars et al had been removed.

Rebel Amendment on Foundation Hospitals - 8.7.2003 - eek, to borrow from Al, probably voted a la Taylor

Amendment to government Iraq motion - 18.3.2003 - at the time, against the amendment

Anti-war amendment in the Iraq debate - 26.2.2003 - as above

All-appointed Lords - 4.2.2003 - against heavily

All-elected Lords - 4.2.2003 - probably aye, though I prefer the 75/25 (or was it 80/20...?) split option.

UN resolution 1441 - 25.11.2002 - this is slightly different from the later ones - Taylored.

Adoption and children - 4.11.2002 - in favour

Full ban on hunting with dogs - 18.3.2002 - my constituents get a good service.

Licensing of hunting with dogs - 18.3.2002 - they really do.

Home Office anti-terrorism legislation - 21.11.2001  - Against the bill.

International action against terrorism - 1.11.2001 - Against the rebels motion

Extension of freedom of information legislation - 5.4.2000 - like Al, I cannot recall

Age of consent February 2000 - 10.2.2000 - In favour. I would also have threatened to invade the House of Lords and assault Baroness Young by this point. What a witch.

Opposition to incapacity benefits means test - 20.5.1999 - Against the rebel motion.

[Colin]

Terrorism bill - 9.11.2005 - Nay

ID cards bill (3rd reading) - 18.10.2005 - Nay

Prevention of terrorism bill (3rd reading) - 28.2.2005 - Aye

Identity cards - 20.12.2004 - Nay
 
Hunting ban - 15.9.2004 - Nay

Higher education funding bill - 27.1.2004 - Nay

Rebel Amendment on Foundation Hospitals - 8.7.2003 - Abstain

Amendment to government Iraq motion - 18.3.2003 - Nay

Anti-war amendment in the Iraq debate - 26.2.2003 - Nay

All-appointed Lords - 4.2.2003 - Nay

All-elected Lords - 4.2.2003 - Aye

UN resolution 1441 - 25.11.2002 - Nay

Adoption and children - 4.11.2002 - Aye

Full ban on hunting with dogs - 18.3.2002 - Nay 

Licensing of hunting with dogs - 18.3.2002 - Aye

Home Office anti-terrorism legislation - 21.11.2001 - Nay

International action against terrorism - 1.11.2001 - Nay

Extension of freedom of information legislation - 5.4.2000 - Aye

Age of consent February 2000 - 10.2.2000 - Abstain

Opposition to incapacity benefits means test - 20.5.1999 - Nay

[Democratic Hawk]

Terrorism bill - 9.11.2005 Aye

ID cards bill (3rd reading) - 18.10.2005 Aye

Prevention of terrorism bill (3rd reading) - 28.2.2005 Nay - not with our woolly judiciary

Identity cards - 20.12.2004 Aye
 
Hunting ban - 15.9.2004 Aye

Higher education funding bill - 27.1.2004 Nay - bloody rebel that I am

Rebel Amendment on Foundation Hospitals - 8.7.2003 Nay

Amendment to government Iraq motion - 18.3.2003 Nay

Anti-war amendment in the Iraq debate - 26.2.2003 Nay

All-appointed Lords - 4.2.2003 Absolutely not - its crony enough as it is

All-elected Lords - 4.2.2003 Aye

UN resolution 1441 - 25.11.2002 Nay

Adoption and children - 4.11.2002 Aye

Full ban on hunting with dogs - 18.3.2002 Aye

Licensing of hunting with dogs - 18.3.2002 Nay

Home Office anti-terrorism legislation - 21.11.2001 Aye

International action against terrorism - 1.11.2001 Nay

Extension of freedom of information legislation - 5.4.2000 Aye

Age of consent February 2000 - 10.2.2000 Aye

Opposition to incapacity benefits means test - 20.5.1999 Nay

Dave

[they don't love you like i love you]

How exactly do you "do a Taylor?" It seems you'd have to cast two votes on the bill then, how does that work?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

How exactly do you "do a Taylor?" It seems you'd have to cast two votes on the bill then, how does that work?

In the House of Commons, M.P's vote by walking into the division lobbies on either side of the House, where they are counted.
As such there's no way of getting your abstention noticed or formally recorded, although it *does* allow you to vote both for and against a piece of legislation, which in practice means that your abstention is noticed and recorded.
This has become a bit of a trademark of David Taylor (Labour M.P for N.W.Leics) and he's used it a lot over the past few years.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I would also have threatened to invade the House of Lords and assault Baroness Young by this point. What a witch.

Entirely understandable. Not a very nice person.

[minionofmidas]

Terrorism bill - 9.11.2005
MPs voted on a government proposal to extend the maximum period for police detention of a terrorist suspect without charge to 90 days. The government was defeated, with 49 Labour MPs rebelling.  For 
Terror bill 'intent' amendment - 2.11.2005
Would have rebelled.

ID cards bill (3rd reading) - 18.10.2005
A government bill to introduce identity cards. 25 Labour MPs opposed the bill's third reading, and others voted for opposition amendments.
Depends on details. Not opposed to ID cards as such, obviously.

Prevention of terrorism bill (3rd reading) - 28.2.2005
MPs voted on an amendment to make all control orders at the discretion of a judge. Rebels voted in favour. The amendment was defeated and the bill given its third reading.
Would have rebelled.

Identity cards - 20.12.2004
MPs voted on the second reading of the government's identity cards bill. The Conservative frontbench supported the measure, with Labour and Tory rebels voting against
See above.
 
Hunting ban - 15.9.2004
The government reintroduced a bill to ban foxhunting and hare coursing, to be debated and voted on over the course of one day. MPs voted 356 to 166 in favour of the ban.
For I guess - not that I care.

Higher education funding bill - 27.1.2004
MPs voted on the second reading of the government's higher education bill - which included plans for variable student tuition fees. Rebels voted against.
Not sure.

Rebel Amendment on Foundation Hospitals - 8.7.2003
MPs voted on Frank Dobson's amendment to remove references to foundation hospitals from the health and social care bill. Rebels voted in favour. The amendment was defeated by 35 votes.
Hey, it's by Dobbo and Al's not opposed to it. Can't say no to that.

Amendment to government Iraq motion - 18.3.2003
MPs debating the Iraq crisis voted on an anti-war amendment. Rebels voted in favour. The motion was defeated.
Rebel.

Anti-war amendment in the Iraq debate - 26.2.2003
MPs voted on an amendment tabled by Chris Smith and Douglas Hogg. The amendment was not carried. Rebels voted in favour.
Ditto.

All-appointed Lords - 4.2.2003
Motion to appoint all peers in a future House of Lords. The prime minister backed the introduction of this option. Cabinet rebels voted against, although this was a free vote. Motion was defeated.

All-elected Lords - 4.2.2003
Motion to introduce a fully elected House of Lords. The leader of the Commons backed this option. All MPs given a free vote.
I want either an all elected but small Lords, or no Lords at all. And I want a higher majority than now needed to pass constitutional bills. So the latter, I guess. One change at a time.

UN resolution 1441 - 25.11.2002
Liberal Democrat amendment limiting justification for war with Iraq without further UN sanction. Rebels voted for the amendment.
For of course.

Adoption and children - 4.11.2002
Vote on government plan to allow unmarried and gay couples to adopt children. Supporters voted for. The motion was passed. 
For.

Full ban on hunting with dogs - 18.3.2002
Proposal to completely ban hunting wild mammals with dogs. Supporters voted in favour. 
Probably against, actually.

Licensing of hunting with dogs - 18.3.2002
A compromise proposal to allow foxhunting to continue under licence 
Might have voted for that. Depends on what my constituents said.

Home Office anti-terrorism legislation - 21.11.2001
Vote on the contoversial bill giving the governemnt the right to detain foreign terrorists without trial. Rebels voted against. The motion was passed.
Against.

International action against terrorism - 1.11.2001
Rebel vote against government's backing for airstrikes on Afghanistan. Rebels voted for. Motion was lost.
Against, ie not a rebel.

Extension of freedom of information legislation - 5.4.2000
Amendment to extend scope of freedom of information bill.
Related articles Extension of freedom of information legislation
What Al said.

Age of consent February 2000 - 10.2.2000
Vote on government plan to lower age of consent for gay sex to 16. Supporters voted for.
For.

Opposition to incapacity benefits means test - 20.5.1999
Motion to block government plans to limit access to incapacity benefit. Rebels voted for. Motion was defeated.
I'll believe Al and Peter here.

[afleitch]

Terrorism bill - 9.11.2005
Nay- I would have done my best to propose a 60 day motion. 90 days was just too long and 28 too short.

ID cards bill (3rd reading) - 18.10.2005
Nay

Prevention of terrorism bill (3rd reading) - 28.2.2005
Nay- I don't trust the judges.

Identity cards - 20.12.2004
Abstain
 
Hunting ban - 15.9.2004
Abstain - in retrospect.

Higher education funding bill - 27.1.2004
Nay - If I was a Scottish MP I would have abstained.

Rebel Amendment on Foundation Hospitals - 8.7.2003
Nay

Amendment to government Iraq motion - 18.3.2003
Nay

Anti-war amendment in the Iraq debate - 26.2.2003
Nay

All-appointed Lords - 4.2.2003
Nay

All-elected Lords - 4.2.2003
Aye

UN resolution 1441 - 25.11.2002
Nay

Adoption and children - 4.11.2002
Aye

Full ban on hunting with dogs - 18.3.2002
Abstain

Licensing of hunting with dogs - 18.3.2002
Aye

Home Office anti-terrorism legislation - 21.11.2001
Aye - would probably regret it later

International action against terrorism - 1.11.2001
Nay

Extension of freedom of information legislation - 5.4.2000
Abstain

Age of consent February 2000 - 10.2.2000
Aye - and would have joined Pete Bell in the mauling of Baroness Young

Opposition to incapacity benefits means test - 20.5.1999
Nay


I think i've got these right- I've went through them pretty fast

[minionofmidas]

Ah, the Lothian Question raises its ugly head again.

[afleitch]

Ah, the Lothian Question raises its ugly head again.

Indeed. If I were an MP for a Scottish constituency I would not vote on bills that solely affect England. The fact that English university students are faced with top up fees simply because Scottish Labour stooges, sorry MP'S helped it pass. If I were a Scottish MP I would have also abstained during the hunting bills.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The fact that English university students are faced with top up fees

Better than upfront fees IMO.
Someone has to pay and it's unfair for people who never had a chance to go to Uni (like my parents for instance) to have to pay for middle class students to get a free ticket to Uni.

[Јas]

Terrorism bill - 9.11.2005: Nay

ID cards bill (3rd reading) - 18.10.2005: Nay

Prevention of terrorism bill (3rd reading) - 28.2.2005: Aye

Identity cards - 20.12.2004: Nay

Hunting ban - 15.9.2004: Aye

Higher education funding bill - 27.1.2004: Don't know.

Rebel Amendment on Foundation Hospitals - 8.7.2003: Don't know.

Amendment to government Iraq motion - 18.3.2003: Aye

Anti-war amendment in the Iraq debate - 26.2.2003: Aye

All-appointed Lords - 4.2.2003: Nay

All-elected Lords - 4.2.2003: Don't know. Depends on the terms and conditions. Given the Parliament Acts, I don't think it matters a great deal.

UN resolution 1441 - 25.11.2002: Nay

Adoption and children - 4.11.2002: Aye

Full ban on hunting with dogs - 18.3.2002: Aye

Licensing of hunting with dogs - 18.3.2002: Nay

Home Office anti-terrorism legislation - 21.11.2001: Nay

International action against terrorism - 1.11.2001: Don't know.

Extension of freedom of information legislation - 5.4.2000: Aye

Age of consent February 2000 - 10.2.2000: Aye

Opposition to incapacity benefits means test - 20.5.1999: Don't know.

[afleitch]

The fact that English university students are faced with top up fees

Better than upfront fees IMO.
Someone has to pay and it's unfair for people who never had a chance to go to Uni (like my parents for instance) to have to pay for middle class students to get a free ticket to Uni.

It also hits working class kids hard too and believe me I know friends in England faced with that situation. The fact it is assessed based on the raw income of the parents and not on the potential earnings of the student based on his or her chosen course. Working class and middle class kids starting university in England this year are expected to graduatie with an average debt of £25000-30000 and it is laying a huge debt on all students, regardless of whether or not they are middle or working class.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

It also hits working class kids hard too

Not as hard for a couple of reasons, but that's not the point. University is expensive, and someone has to pay. That's a fact.
IMO it's unfair to expect people that never had a chance to go to Uni to pay for others to do so; especially as students are *still* overwhelmingly come from well-off backgrounds.

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Maybe if they didn't drink so much it wouldn't be a problem? (hyperbole o/c).

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As opposed to paying for it upfront? Debt is only a problem if you let it get out of control.

[Peter]

First of all, the problem with student drinking is not how much they drink, its where they drink it. Buying alcopops in a city centre nightclub yields incredibly poor value for money. I have found that myself able to maintain relatively average student drinking simply through the student bars and house parties.

There are several problems with the student loan system as it was when I started, and whilst some were corrected, there is still much work to be done.

When I started, I got £3000 in loans from the government, and there is a possibility for another £1000 over the year, which because my parents have far too much money for their own good, I could never qualify for.

Anyway, on arrival, one is stamped with a  £1,100 tuition fee; My room rate was £700 a term (and my college is one of the better Oxford colleges for rent rates). Thats already £3,200 out of my £3,000 gone. Fortunately my parents helped me out, so I never had to sell my soul.

Upfront fees was one of the greatest drains on a students immediate budget, and lets not forget that students on top of tuition and a roof have to afford food (though if you are mad you can go for the subsidised cantine service) and books (depending on how good your Uni libraries are regarding long term loans), and thats before they *gasp* make some friends and enjoy themselves. So, yes the move to get rid of upfront fees was eminently sensible and for that reason alone I could almost support the bill.

The top-up fees essentially allow universities to charge up to £3000 to each student (provided they meet some conditions). Frankly, I don't agree with this - different courses cost different amounts. My degree costs on the order of £15,000 a year all tolled (if you think this is bad, the medicine course costs £25,000 p.a.). I randomly choose the University of Greenwich where it costs for the same course only £8,000. I somehow suspect that my Oxford degree will make me more employable than a Greenwich degree, so I think its ordered in the concept of fairness that I might pay more in fees (provided of course it remains non-upfront) because the net gains to me long term are better. On this basis, I would be much happier with a condition of paying up to say 25% of course costs (or whatever number makes the proposal revenue neutral).

(The above does run into problems in certain science subjects which are undersubscribed but because of the laboratory element are much more expensive. Ways around that may need to be found otherwise the subjects may become even more unpopular.)

Graduating with tens of thousands of pounds worth of debt is not the massive problem that is made out to be by the media (provided of course this debt is not on a credit card or in overdrawn-to-their-limits bank accounts). Government debt is paid off according to ability to pay (i.e. is proportional to your income) and interest is net 0%. The only place where I can see this becoming an issue is if student debt impacts heavily on a graduates initial credit rating and makes it difficult for them to get on the housing ladder (this is admittedly hard for everybody o/c). The government would be well advised to shield student debt to a degree from credit checks.

There is also some argument that those who use their degrees in the public and voluntary sectors which traditionally are not as well paid as the private sector (principally teaching, nursing) might also deserve to have their debt partially written off given that they are repaying their debt to society in another way. But I won't dwell on that because of my obvious vested interest.

[bullmoose88]

Nay-Terrorism bill - 9.11.2005

Nay-ID cards bill (3rd reading) - 18.10.2005

Yea-Prevention of terrorism bill (3rd reading) - 28.2.2005


Nay-Identity cards - 20.12.2004

 
Nay-Hunting ban - 15.9.2004


Yea-Higher education funding bill - 27.1.2004


Nay-Rebel Amendment on Foundation Hospitals - 8.7.2003


Yea-Amendment to government Iraq motion - 18.3.2003


Yea-Anti-war amendment in the Iraq debate - 26.2.2003


Abstain-All-appointed Lords - 4.2.2003


Yea-All-elected Lords - 4.2.2003


Abstain-UN resolution 1441 - 25.11.2002


Yea-Adoption and children - 4.11.2002


Nay-Full ban on hunting with dogs - 18.3.2002
 

Yea-Licensing of hunting with dogs - 18.3.2002


Nay-Home Office anti-terrorism legislation - 21.11.2001


Nay-International action against terrorism - 1.11.2001
Rebel vote against government's backing for airstrikes on Afghanistan. Rebels voted for. Motion was lost.

Yea-Extension of freedom of information legislation - 5.4.2000

Abstain-Age of consent February 2000 - 10.2.2000
Vote on government plan to lower age of consent for gay sex to 16. Supporters voted for.

Nay-Opposition to incapacity benefits means test - 20.5.1999


I wonder where this would put me in British Politics.