Freedom Fighter, Horrible Person or both?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

These are all people I consider both Freedom Fighters and Horrible People. So how would you put them?

Winston Churchill
Martin Luther
Woodrow Wilson
Juan Peron
Larry Flynt
Ariel Sharon
Pope John Paul II
Vladimir Lenin
Viktor Yuschenko
Kemal Mustafa Ataturk
Ho Chi Minh
Georgy Zhukov
Laurent Kabila
Gavrilo Princip
Constantine I
Józef Piłsudski
Robert Byrd

[GMantis]

What exactly did Ariel Sharon and Ataturk do to be qualified as Freedom fighters (even partly)?

[Jake]

Winston Churchill - Freedom Fighter
Martin Luther - One of the top three most Horrible People ever
Woodrow Wilson - Pure Horrible Person
Juan Peron - Freedom Fighter
Larry Flynt - Horrible Person
Ariel Sharon - Freedom Fighter
Pope John Paul II - Freedom Fighter; top 25 ever
Vladimir Lenin - Horrible Person
Viktor Yuschenko - Marginal Freedom Fighter
Kemal Mustafa Ataturk - Horrible Person
Ho Chi Minh - Horrible Person
Georgy Zhukov - Marginal Horrible Person
Gavrilo Princip - No opinion
Constantine I - No opinion
Józef Piłsudski - Freedom Fighter
Robert Byrd - Freedom Fighter

[Frodo]

Winston Churchill Freedom Fighter

Martin Luther Freedom Fighter

Woodrow Wilson Freedom Fighter

Juan Peron Freedom Fighter

Larry Flynt Horrible Person

Ariel Sharon Both

Pope John Paul II Freedom Fighter

Vladimir Lenin Horrible Person

Viktor Yuschenko Freedom Fighter

Kemal Mustafa Ataturk Both

Ho Chi Minh Both

Georgy Zhukov Freedom Fighter

Laurent Kabila Both

Gavrilo Princip Horrible Person

Constantine I Both

Józef Piłsudski Freedom Fighter

Robert Byrd Both

[© tweed]

I'm not going to use the 'both' option as it is a copout.

Winston Churchill FF
Martin Luther FF
Woodrow Wilson HP
Juan Peron FF
Larry Flynt FF
Ariel Sharon HP
Pope John Paul II HP
Vladimir Lenin FF
Viktor Yuschenko FF
Kemal Mustafa Ataturk HP
Ho Chi Minh HP
Georgy Zhukov FF
Laurent Kabila HP
Gavrilo Princip FF
Constantine I HP
Józef Piłsudski HP
Robert Byrd FF

[© tweed]

Józef Piłsudski Horrible Person (assuming this is the Cyrillic verson of Stalin's name)

it isn't.

[Frodo]

Józef Piłsudski Horrible Person (assuming this is the Cyrillic verson of Stalin's name)

it isn't.

Yes, I just found out. 

[GMantis]

This is my opinion

Winston Churchill HP
Martin Luther FF
Woodrow Wilson FF
Juan Peron HP
Larry Flynt Both
Ariel Sharon HP
Pope John Paul II Both
Vladimir Lenin Both
Viktor Yuschenko HP
Kemal Mustafa Ataturk HP
Ho Chi Minh FF
Georgy Zhukov FF
Laurent Kabila HP
Gavrilo Princip HP (this person indirectly caused the death of about 100 million people)
Constantine I HP
Józef Piłsudski FF
Robert Byrd FF
 
 
 

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

What exactly did Ariel Sharon

That in the end he finally ended up breaking with the hardliners and led the pullout from Gaza.

and Ataturk do to be qualified as Freedom fighters (even partly)?

I thought that'd be pretty obvious, secularization of Turkey (and that he delivered the final blow to the Ottomans)

[adam]

Winston Churchill - Freedom Fighter

Martin Luther - Horrible Person (provided that we are talking about the guy that started the protestant revolution).

Woodrow Wilson - Neither, just a bad president.

Juan Peron - No Opinion

Larry Flynt - Freedom Fighter

Ariel Sharon - Neither

Pope John Paul II - Neither, but Theocratic leaders will never be atop my favorites list.

Vladimir Lenin - Horrible Person, facial hair aside; he's still a communist

Viktor Yuschenko - Freedom Fighter

Kemal Mustafa Ataturk

Ho Chi Minh - Horrible Person

Georgy Zhukov - No Opinion

Laurent Kabila - Horrible Person

Gavrilo Princip - Horrible Person

Constantine I - Neither

Józef Piłsudski - Horrible Person

Robert Byrd - Horrible Person, ex Klansman

[jokerman]

Winston Churchill Freedom Fighter

Martin Luther Freedom Fighter

Woodrow Wilson Freedom Fighter

Juan Peron Freedom Fighter

Larry Flynt Horrible Person

Ariel Sharon Freedom Fighter

Pope John Paul II Freedom Fighter

Vladimir Lenin Horrible Person

Viktor Yuschenko Freedom Fighter

Kemal Mustafa Ataturk Both (Helped modernize Turkey but his millitary victories prevented the Greeks from taking Constantinople )

Ho Chi Minh Both

Constantine I Freedom Fighter

Józef Piłsudski Freedom Fighter

Robert Byrd Freedom Fighter

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I dislike all this FF/HP nonsense, but I'll say what I think of these people anyways... some of them were quite complex and interesting individuals ('tho' one or two are/were neither)...

Winston Churchill: I have a very low opinion of Churchill, which, up to a point, I picked up off my late Grandad (who grew up in a Durham mining town in the '20's/'30's. 'nuff said). I do respect his role during the Second World War, but it has to be said that his record during the rest of his long political career is certainly nothing to celebrate, and is usually something to condemn. His worst acts were those that he did in the inter-war period o/c, but his actions during the First World War were also shameful, as was what he did after the Second World War.
I also despise the cult of Churchill that the old egomaniac helped to foster himself...
Martin Luther: quite a lot to condemn o/c, but IMO that is generally outweighed by his role in the birth of the Reformation. I much prefer Zwingli.
Woodrow Wilson: he takes more flak than he deserves over the various peace treaties and so on post-WWI, but for the last part of his Presidency... anyway...
Juan Peron: always views him as a bit of a comic demagogue really.
Larry Flynt: pervert
Ariel Sharon: I'm not a fan, put it like that. Whether the end of his career can make up for all before it is not something we'll know for a while, so I'll reserve judgment.
Pope John Paul II: I generally dislike Popes, but he wasn't so bad really...
Vladimir Lenin: the great perverter of the Socialist ideology, and a nasty dictator to boot. Hate him.
Viktor Yuschenko: not a fan.
Kemal Mustafa Ataturk: I don't like people who like ethnic cleansing. He's more than just a little bit over-rated in the West...
Ho Chi Minh: not a fan.
Georgy Zhukov: don't like Generals as a rule
Laurent Kabila: bastard
Gavrilo Princip: ...
Constantine I: can't say I'm a fan...
Józef Piłsudski: despite generally liking neither Generals or Dictators, I do sort of like him... certainly better than Dmowski.
Robert Byrd: a very strange guy in many ways; has done a lot of good for West Virginia, but has always had a rather oppertunistic streak that isn't really very pleasant.

[GMantis]

What exactly did Ariel Sharon

That in the end he finally ended up breaking with the hardliners and led the pullout from Gaza.

The pullout was done for purely strategic reasons - getting rid of a territory which had little value and was very difficult to defend, while holding onto the far more valuable West Bank.

and Ataturk do to be qualified as Freedom fighters (even partly)?

I thought that'd be pretty obvious, secularization of Turkey (and that he delivered the final blow to the Ottomans)

I don't think this outweighs his participation in ethnic cleansing. Anyway, as far as his attitude against minorities he was as worse as the ottomans. His secularization was carried out in a violent way and didn’t really take root outside Turkey's urban areas

[minionofmidas]

Winston Churchill - HP (FF and HP for only a short period of his life)
Martin Luther - ditto
Woodrow Wilson - neither
Juan Peron - neither? HP? not sure
Larry Flynt - HP? Both? I don't care.
Ariel Sharon - HP
Pope John Paul II - HP, not that bad as popes go though
Vladimir Lenin - HP (FF early on)
Viktor Yuschenko - HP
Kemal Mustafa Ataturk - HP
Ho Chi Minh - Probably both, not sure on the HP part though
Georgy Zhukov - Remind me who that was. Ah right, thanks Al. No opinion.
Laurent Kabila - HP (FF in the 60s, maybe)
Gavrilo Princip - FF
Constantine I - HP
Józef Piłsudski - HP
Robert Byrd - Neither