Same sex parents and birth registration

[Richard]

A question.  Ontario birth registration forms contain fields for father and mother.  Naturally, the homosexuals are upset about this.  However, in a lawsuit, a court ruled that homosexuals can go suck on a lemon.  The reasoning was as follows: The biological father and biological mother goes on the certificate; and since at this time it takes one member of each sex to make a child, the form does not need to be changed.

I would be horrified if the court ruled otherwise.  Yeah, yeah, you want your kid registered under your name, but if you do that you will completely ruin the geneological data and history.  I do not want to pollute this database just because YOU want to be "equal."

Any thoughts?

[John Dibble]

Seeing as the form only cares about biology, I really couldn't care either.

[afleitch]

Same here- if the form requires biological parents then thats what should be on the form.

[Inverted Things]

I've been saying this quite a bit lately, but Richard is quite right.

[dazzleman]

A question.  Ontario birth registration forms contain fields for father and mother.  Naturally, the homosexuals are upset about this.  However, in a lawsuit, a court ruled that homosexuals can go suck on a lemon.  The reasoning was as follows: The biological father and biological mother goes on the certificate; and since at this time it takes one member of each sex to make a child, the form does not need to be changed.

I would be horrified if the court ruled otherwise.  Yeah, yeah, you want your kid registered under your name, but if you do that you will completely ruin the geneological data and history.  I do not want to pollute this database just because YOU want to be "equal."

Any thoughts?

You're completely correct.  Two women, or two men, cannot actually be the 'parents' of a child.  It has to be a man and a woman.  This is one little inconvenient fact that the homosexual activists can't seem to get around.  It will vex them in the same way that it vexes feminists that men can't carry children.

[Nym90]

I agree that if the forms focus only on biology, indeed the biological parents should be listed.

However, I think there is far more to being a parent than simply biology. I would argue that being a parent actually has nothing to do with biology at all, in fact.

[dazzleman]

I agree that if the forms focus only on biology, indeed the biological parents should be listed.

However, I think there is far more to being a parent than simply biology. I would argue that being a parent actually has nothing to do with biology at all, in fact.

The birth certificate is meant to record biological parents, not predict who is going to raise the kids.  I understand your point, but two men, or two women, can't possibly be the biological parents of a child, any more than a man can carry a baby.  It's simply a fact of life, and the attitude that the names of gay parents should be listed on birth certificates is an attempt to deny an immutable reality.

Think about kids who are adopted.  Their birth certificates still list the names of their biological parents, and they're supplemented by adoption papers.  Perhaps in these cases, the same thing could be done, though I will caveat it by saying that I don't support gay adoption.

[Nym90]

I agree that if the forms focus only on biology, indeed the biological parents should be listed.

However, I think there is far more to being a parent than simply biology. I would argue that being a parent actually has nothing to do with biology at all, in fact.

The birth certificate is meant to record biological parents, not predict who is going to raise the kids.  I understand your point, but two men, or two women, can't possibly be the biological parents of a child, any more than a man can carry a baby.  It's simply a fact of life, and the attitude that the names of gay parents should be listed on birth certificates is an attempt to deny an immutable reality.

Think about kids who are adopted.  Their birth certificates still list the names of their biological parents, and they're supplemented by adoption papers.  Perhaps in these cases, the same thing could be done, though I will caveat it by saying that I don't support gay adoption.

I agree they are biologically the parents, and hence why I supported putting those on the document if that's what it is asking for.

But my point was that the definition of what is a parent is not in my mind based on biology. I understand if they are asking for something different than that (biological parent as opposed to caretaker of the child, which is my definiton of the term), that's fine.

[adam]

I see nothing wrong with it.

[opebo]

Who cares about geneological data and history, Richious?  Sounds like needless State interference to me.  Let people put whatever they want down for progenitors - it is their own affair.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

Who cares about geneological data and history, Richious?  Sounds like needless State interference to me.  Let people put whatever they want down for progenitors - it is their own affair.

[Richard]

Who cares about geneological data and history, Richious?  Sounds like needless State interference to me.  Let people put whatever they want down for progenitors - it is their own affair.

I do.  I don't support the State in many things, but I do in this case.  It is important to keep track of when people are born, who they marry, their kids, and their deaths.

[Q]

Who cares about geneological data and history, Richious?  Sounds like needless State interference to me.  Let people put whatever they want down for progenitors - it is their own affair.

I do.  I don't support the State in many things, but I do in this case.  It is important to keep track of when people are born, who they marry, their kids, and their deaths.

I'm not sure all of those are good things for the government to be tracking, but I agree with the current form, as it would be helpful to the child to know his biological/medical history regardless of which people raise him.

[Cubby]

A question.  Ontario birth registration forms contain fields for father and mother.  Naturally, the homosexuals are upset about this.  However, in a lawsuit, a court ruled that homosexuals can go suck on a lemon.  The reasoning was as follows: The biological father and biological mother goes on the certificate; and since at this time it takes one member of each sex to make a child, the form does not need to be changed.

I would be horrified if the court ruled otherwise.  Yeah, yeah, you want your kid registered under your name, but if you do that you will completely ruin the geneological data and history.  I do not want to pollute this database just because YOU want to be "equal."

Any thoughts?

Some of us want and need to be equal, unlike you who can marry a woman and live happily ever after.

[dazzleman]

A question.  Ontario birth registration forms contain fields for father and mother.  Naturally, the homosexuals are upset about this.  However, in a lawsuit, a court ruled that homosexuals can go suck on a lemon.  The reasoning was as follows: The biological father and biological mother goes on the certificate; and since at this time it takes one member of each sex to make a child, the form does not need to be changed.

I would be horrified if the court ruled otherwise.  Yeah, yeah, you want your kid registered under your name, but if you do that you will completely ruin the geneological data and history.  I do not want to pollute this database just because YOU want to be "equal."

Any thoughts?

Some of us want and need to be equal, unlike you who can marry a woman and live happily ever after.

What does that have to do with what amounts to falsifying a document whose purpose it is to list the biological parents of a child?  Does that make you more equal -- to say that two men, or two women, parented a child together, when it can't possibly be the case?  That's not equality -- that's denial of reality.

That mentality of "We have to be equal, even if we have to lie to do it" is, in a nutshell, exactly what's wrong with that whole movement.

[afleitch]

That mentality of "We have to be equal, even if we have to lie to do it" is, in a nutshell, exactly what's wrong with that whole movement.

While I don't agree entirely with Pim's sentiments, please don't slander an entire movement. It may have it's fringes, as all social and political movements do, but without it I would have been imprisoned or used as a medical and psychological guinea pig by now!

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Or become a sort of Tory Tom Driberg

[afleitch]

Or become a sort of Tory Tom Driberg

But without the KGB connection