Canadian study; 'Younger brothers more likely to be born gay.'

[afleitch]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11069-2244075,00.html

'A man's sexual orientation can be fixed before he is born, according to new research that provides the strongest evidence yet of a biological basis for male homosexuality.

Scientists in Canada have discovered that the probability of a man being gay rises significantly according to the number of elder brothers he has, when these brothers are born of the same mother.

While the link between having older brothers and homosexuality has long been established, the new findings indicate that it is conditions within the womb before birth, and not the subsequent family environment, which are responsible for the effect.

This suggests that in at least a proportion of gay men, sexual orientation is heavily influenced by factors experienced in the womb, and not by the way they are brought up.'

This study, confirms the results found by 14 other studies and is yet another fascinating piece of research into the human condition. More and more is being discovered about human sexuality and each result is as fascinating as the next. Sadly there could be 14 million studies and it still wouldn't shift some peoples views on the matter.

[minionofmidas]

Interesting.

[MODU]

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No wonder my brother looks so cute!    hahaha . . . sorry, but this just like another fishing expedition to justify a life style choice (no offense).  If the initial probability that you will be gay is in the single digits, then the probability increase from being a younger brother really isn't significantly greater. 

[afleitch]

As I said MODU there could be 14 million studies all reaching the same conclusion but some people still wouldn't put their hands up and admit it's simply part of the human condition They release new or corroborative evidence of such a conclusion almost on a monthly basis now.

[Hatman 🍁]

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No wonder my brother looks so cute!    hahaha . . . sorry, but this just like another fishing expedition to justify a life style choice (no offense).  If the initial probability that you will be gay is in the single digits, then the probability increase from being a younger brother really isn't significantly greater. 

You think homosexuality is a choice? hahaha. I think we have another closet homosexual on our hands. Only someone who is gay (and is sexually confused) would think that you can just "chose" to be gay. As a straight person, I know this is not possible.

[John Dibble]

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No wonder my brother looks so cute!    hahaha . . . sorry, but this just like another fishing expedition to justify a life style choice (no offense).  If the initial probability that you will be gay is in the single digits, then the probability increase from being a younger brother really isn't significantly greater. 

You think homosexuality is a choice? hahaha. I think we have another closet homosexual on our hands. Only someone who is gay (and is sexually confused) would think that you can just "chose" to be gay. As a straight person, I know this is not possible.

Uhm, what? Now, I don't agree that homosexuality is a choice, but I don't see any evidence that one can't believe it's a choice unless he is gay. I mean seriously, do you have ANY scientific evidence to support this conclusion you've made?

[MaC]

A load of bull.  Some people think 'genetics' can explain whether a person likes pancakes or not.

[opebo]

...this just like another fishing expedition to justify a life style choice (no offense). 

Why on earth would anyone feel they have to 'justify' their lifestyle choice?

[John Dibble]

A load of bull.  Some people think 'genetics' can explain whether a person likes pancakes or not.

But the article didn't even mention genetics. Specifically, it mentioned conditions in the womb.

[MaC]

Nonetheless I highly doubt your sexuality can be determined at birth.  Probably has to do with the excessive hormones released during puberty.

[John Dibble]

Nonetheless I highly doubt your sexuality can be determined at birth.  Probably has to do with the excessive hormones released during puberty.

Actually, some studies have shown that it has to do with brain development. For instance, the hypothalamus was shown to be larger in homosexual men than in heterosexual men. The most serious brain development occurs in the womb and in the early years of life.

Besides, if it was hormones you could medicate it.

[??????????]

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No wonder my brother looks so cute!    hahaha . . . sorry, but this just like another fishing expedition to justify a life style choice (no offense).  If the initial probability that you will be gay is in the single digits, then the probability increase from being a younger brother really isn't significantly greater. 

You think homosexuality is a choice? hahaha. I think we have another closet homosexual on our hands. Only someone who is gay (and is sexually confused) would think that you can just "chose" to be gay. As a straight person, I know this is not possible.

Uhm, what? Now, I don't agree that homosexuality is a choice, but I don't see any evidence that one can't believe it's a choice unless he is gay. I mean seriously, do you have ANY scientific evidence to support this conclusion you've made?

Vast Canadian intellect, no doubt.

Besides, if it was hormones you could medicate it.

Has any medical group seriously ever tried? From what I know, no, so therefore how can we know that M&C isn't right?

[Cubby]

Nonetheless I highly doubt your sexuality can be determined at birth.  Probably has to do with the excessive hormones released during puberty.

Thats sounds as accurate as bleeding someone to cast out evil spirits.

I'm annoyed that even people who aren't homophobic still think its a choice. Why would people choose to live a life of shame and ridicule?

[Hatman 🍁]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

No wonder my brother looks so cute!    hahaha . . . sorry, but this just like another fishing expedition to justify a life style choice (no offense).  If the initial probability that you will be gay is in the single digits, then the probability increase from being a younger brother really isn't significantly greater. 

You think homosexuality is a choice? hahaha. I think we have another closet homosexual on our hands. Only someone who is gay (and is sexually confused) would think that you can just "chose" to be gay. As a straight person, I know this is not possible.

Uhm, what? Now, I don't agree that homosexuality is a choice, but I don't see any evidence that one can't believe it's a choice unless he is gay. I mean seriously, do you have ANY scientific evidence to support this conclusion you've made?

No, I do not, but wouldn't you say that makes sense? I mean a straight person knows perfectly well they cannot become gay. Anyone who doesn't think so must be sitting on the fence. I know as a straight person, the possibility of choosing to become gay does not exist for me.

Vast Canadian intellect, no doubt.

Something you want to tell us States?

[Middle-aged Europe]

I'm annoyed that even people who aren't homophobic still think its a choice. Why would people choose to live a life of shame and ridicule?

Gays are also masochists, didn't you know that?

[afleitch]

I mean a straight person knows perfectly well they cannot become gay. Anyone who doesn't think so must be sitting on the fence. I know as a straight person, the possibility of choosing to become gay does not exist for me.

I think you are spot on. Can someone who is straight consciously choose to become gay? Can they choose to become sexually aroused by men; their personality, their bodies, their smell even. Can they choose to fall in love with men and be fascinated by every positive attribute and little flaw of whom they fall in love with? Can you also choose to supress such desire for women? Of course not.

Do you honestly think if it was a choice I would have chosen to have the utter sh-t kicked out of me when I was 14?

[John Dibble]

Besides, if it was hormones you could medicate it.

Has any medical group seriously ever tried? From what I know, no, so therefore how can we know that M&C isn't right?

Well, a scientific group would have to show that M&C's hypothesis about excess hormones being released during puberty is true before even attempting it, which I don't think any study has managed to show. But it has been shown that homosexuals generally don't have differences in adult hormone levels, so I find it doubtful it would be effective since, if M&C's idea was true, you'd have to catch it during puberty before it has long term effects. What studies have observed though is differences in male hormone levels in the womb.

[DanielX]

Who is to say there is one cause? I say there are probably a large number of genetic, environmental, and social issues that contribute to human sexuality. It's...complicated.

[??????????]

I think the theory I heard about being "a reaction to overpopulation" was actually rather credible and interesting. Might be linked to this study in some way.

[Joe Republic]

I think the theory I heard about being "a reaction to overpopulation" was actually rather credible and interesting. Might be linked to this study in some way.

I was just going to mention something about that, because I also think it's quite a credible argument.

[bejkuy]

FYI-

I read the full report.  The findings were that 5% of men in Canada who had 2 or more older brothers were homosexual.

This is against a 3% combined rate of homosexuality among men in Canada. 

In my opinion the findings are something less than conclusive or definitive.

What about the 95% of men with 2 or more older brothers who aren't homosexual?

I was led to read the actual study because I had seen so many news flashes on the internet "proving" a genetic link and decided I'd go ahead check it out. 

[minionofmidas]

Who is to say there is one cause? I say there are probably a large number of genetic, environmental, and social issues that contribute to human sexuality. It's...complicated.

Yes. This studies findings would appear to be one factor, but nothing more.

[MaC]

I think the theory I heard about being "a reaction to overpopulation" was actually rather credible and interesting. Might be linked to this study in some way.

Another credible possibility, but definitely not absolute.

Nonetheless I highly doubt your sexuality can be determined at birth.  Probably has to do with the excessive hormones released during puberty.

Thats sounds as accurate as bleeding someone to cast out evil spirits.

I'm annoyed that even people who aren't homophobic still think its a choice. Why would people choose to live a life of shame and ridicule?

Please learn to read.  When did I ever say homosexuality was a choice?  You didn't know at birth you were straight, so it follows that nobody knew at birth that they're gay.

[jerusalemcar5]

I like the States Rights idea.  If he/you had an article I'd love to read it.  I also support the Kinsey theory that basically everyone is bisexual just are varying degrees of it.  This too seems to support what States said.  Could it be in everyone just exposes itself at different levels based on a subconscious environmental response.  Huh.  It is all rather interesting.  Also the true ape species we are supposedly closest related to the bonobo or something has bisexual relations consistently.

[??????????]

I like the States Rights idea.  If he/you had an article I'd love to read it.  I also support the Kinsey theory that basically everyone is bisexual just are varying degrees of it.  This too seems to support what States said.  Could it be in everyone just exposes itself at different levels based on a subconscious environmental response.  Huh.  It is all rather interesting.  Also the true ape species we are supposedly closest related to the bonobo or something has bisexual relations consistently.

AFleitch brought it up a couple of months back or so, I'll look to see if I can find an article.