Opinion of Gustavus Adolphus

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustavus_Adolphus

Freedom Fighter. Massive massive freedom fighter. Two things I'm rather proud of:

1-The liberal Lutheran university only 10 miles from here is named after him
2-He was from Sweden

[Virginian87]

Massive Freedom Fighter for the Protestant cause by fighting the utter corruption of the Catholic Church during the first century after the Reformation.  Any Protestant ruler who took a strong stance against Catholicism during that era is a freedom fighter in my book, since the Catholic Church back then probably restricted one's freedoms more than anything. 

[afleitch]

As a Catholic, I believe he was a major FF and anyone who stands up to a corruption of faith is in my book.

[© tweed]

All I know about him comes from the NFL Draft.  Mr. Irrelevant in 2003 (the last pick in the draft) was Ryan Hoag of Gustavus Adolphus University in Minnesota.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

All I know about him comes from the NFL Draft.  Mr. Irrelevant in 2003 (the last pick in the draft) was Ryan Hoag of Gustavus Adolphus University in Minnesota.

The place where I saw Something Corporate and Yellowcard, and then got great sex afterwords! Great place.

[Virginian87]

All I know about him comes from the NFL Draft.  Mr. Irrelevant in 2003 (the last pick in the draft) was Ryan Hoag of Gustavus Adolphus University in Minnesota.

The place where I saw Something Corporate and Yellowcard, and then got great sex afterwords! Great place.

Only in Minnesota will you find not one, but two, Lutheran universities named after Scandinavians: Gustavus Adolphus and St. Olaf.

[Jake]

Along with Martin Luther and Oliver Cromwell, the worst human being to walk the planet.

[bullmoose88]

FF...except for the fact he was a swede.

(Kraut Lutherean).

[Virginian87]

Along with Martin Luther and Oliver Cromwell, the worst human being to walk the planet.

Martin Luther is quite possibly one of the greatest freedom fighters of all time.  The Catholicism of that time was an utterly corrupt perversion of the Christian faith.  Thank God the British, the Scandinavians, the Dutch, and most of the Germans had enough sense to free themselves of oppressive rule of the Church.

[jokerman]

Well I don't know about any of that moral philosophical FF vs. HP stuff.

He did invent the millitary in its modern form.

[Jake]

Martin Luther is quite possibly one of the greatest freedom fighters of all time.  The Catholicism of that time was an utterly corrupt perversion of the Christian faith.  Thank God the British, the Scandinavians, the Dutch, and most of the Germans had enough sense to free themselves of oppressive rule of the Church.

Hang yourself.

[jokerman]

Martin Luther is quite possibly one of the greatest freedom fighters of all time.  The Catholicism of that time was an utterly corrupt perversion of the Christian faith.  Thank God the British, the Scandinavians, the Dutch, and most of the Germans had enough sense to free themselves of oppressive rule of the Church.

Hang yourself.

Heretics the lot of them!

[Virginian87]

Martin Luther is quite possibly one of the greatest freedom fighters of all time.  The Catholicism of that time was an utterly corrupt perversion of the Christian faith.  Thank God the British, the Scandinavians, the Dutch, and most of the Germans had enough sense to free themselves of oppressive rule of the Church.

Hang yourself.

I'm sure you didn't mean that, so I'll pretend like it never happened.  I am not insulting the Catholic Church of today, but as a Protestant I must say (and most historical sources agree) that the Church of the Middle Ages was an oppressive force in the lives of Western Europeans.  Don't take it personally.  I mean, come on, you can't seriously believe that indulgences were a good thing.  By the Renaissance, the Catholic Church was in some serious need of reform, and Martin Luther was just the person to ignite this movement.  

Remember, in addition to the Protestant Reformation, there was also the Catholic Counter-Reformation (the Council of Trent was a big factor here), and the Church itself began to reform many of its practices.  In some ways the Counter-Reformation helped the Church to adapt to a changing world, much as Vatican II did in the 20th century.  Unfortunately, the Reformation caused centuries of religious animosity between Northern and Southern Europe, including several wars and most infamously the Inquisition.

[Jake]

The Reformation began the downfall of religion in the world. You can pin that on Luther, Calvin, and their ilk; then there is the complicity of the two greatest "champions" of the heretic cause in allowing it to continue.

[Max]

Thank God the British, the Scandinavians, the Dutch, and most of the Germans had enough sense to free themselves of oppressive rule of the Church.

Today Germany is about 50-50.



Gustavus Adolphus was first of all an adventurer, who went to Germany out of two reasons:

1. He wanted to defend his control of the Baltic Sea

2. He wanted to save German protestantism, which was nearly defeated before his intervention.

The first reason was egoistic-imperialistic, the second was idealistic.

For every German in the 17th century, Gustavus Adoplhus was without a doubt a horrible person, because his troops destroid and starved out all the regions they went through, especially the rich Bavaria.

Of course, the troops of Wallenstein and Tilly were not any better.

To me, Gustavus Adolphus' great merit was that he stopped Wallenstein and the Kaiser from building a catholic, Austrian, Habsburgian, absolutist monarchy from northern Italy and Czech to the Baltic Sea.

He cut the hands grabbing for the protestant North of Germany.

If I had to choose between HP and FF, I'd call him a Freedom Fighter. In fact he was both.

Everyone who is interested in that theme should read Westwood's classic work: "The Thirty Years War".
Written in the 1930s, it is still the best book on this subject.

[Virginian87]

The Reformation began the downfall of religion in the world. You can pin that on Luther, Calvin, and their ilk; then there is the complicity of the two greatest "champions" of the heretic cause in allowing it to continue.

I wouldn't say that the Reformation was the downfall of religion; if anything, it allowed Christianity to adapt to a new age.  Like it or not, the Middle Ages and the Age of Faith were over by the 16th Century; man was discovering new things about the world around him.  The printing press had been invented, so that learning need not be confined to the upper classes; astronomers like Copernicus were beginning to challenge the Ptolemaic view that the universe was geocentric.  The Church stood in the way of these new discoveries because they challenged centuries-old Catholic dogma and threatened the stance of the Church in everyday life.  The Reformation helped the Church realize that it needed to change quickly if was going to survive; hence the Catholic Counter-Reformation occurred.

Luther and Calvin were not heretics.  As a Presbyterian, I follow Calvin's philosophies in church and in my everyday life.  If anything, I believe they purified Christianity by preaching against the excessive pomp of Catholicism and, most importantly, allowing their followers to confess their sins directly to God rather than through a priest. 

Of course, there were some major theological changes as well.  I can't fully argue with you on all of them because I'm not an expert on the theology of all Protestant branches.  One of the most striking differences is that we tend to view the Virgin Mary as a divine woman who gave birth to Our Saviour, but we don't place her on the same level as Jesus himself. 

[Max]

Everyone who is interested in that theme should read Westwood's classic work: "The Thirty Years War".
Written in the 1930s, it is still the best book on this subject.

Of course, the Lady's name is Wedgwood.