Day 157: Somalia

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/so.html

Discuss.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

Anarchy and an example of what woudl rsult if people like M&C got in charge(I like your social views but not yur radical ideas of endign all govenrment)

[Frodo]

Two comments:

1. Along with Afghanistan prior to its takeover by the Taliban, this is a perfect caricature of an anarcho-libertarian paradise. 

2. It is most unfortunate the Islamists who have taken over southern Somalia have chosen for themselves a leader said to be friendly to Al Qaeda because otherwise I would have been inclined to have the United States (obviously for pragmatic realpolitik reasons) maintain a working relationship with them to re-organize the country while hunting down Al Qaeda suspects through the length and breadth of the land. 

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

2. It is most unfortunate the Islamists who have taken over southern Somalia have chosen for themselves a leader said to be friendly to Al Qaeda because otherwise I would have been inclined to have the United States (obviously for pragmatic realpolitik reasons) maintain a working relationship with them to re-organize the country while hunting down Al Qaeda suspects through the length and breadth of the land. 

The US shouldn't be dealing with Islamists AT ALL, I don't care if they're Al Qaeda aligned or not. Anyone who bans watching the World Cup like these fascists has no business in power, period.

[Boris]

Are there an U.S/UN troops in Somalia? I'm guessing we pulled out after the Battle of Mogadishu in 1993?

I assume that the current provisional government has very little power, if any, outside the Mogadishu. Are there any warlords such as Aidid that still remain?

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Another country that shows that the Bush adminstration foreign policy is a total joke.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Are there an U.S/UN troops in Somalia? I'm guessing we pulled out after the Battle of Mogadishu in 1993?

None. All forces were withdrawn after 1993.

I assume that the current provisional government has very little power, if any, outside the Mogadishu. Are there any warlords such as Aidid that still remain?

It went from very little control (basically a few city blocks in Mogadishu), to none a few weeks ago when Islamists took all of Mogadishu and southern Somalia. Aidid died years ago, but types like him are still around, controlling the rest of the country, except for Somaliland of course. WMS will speak much more about that.

[WMS]

Are there an U.S/UN troops in Somalia? I'm guessing we pulled out after the Battle of Mogadishu in 1993?

None. All forces were withdrawn after 1993.

We've got some Special Forces wandering around looking for Al Qaida...but that's it. But then again, we probably have Special Forces in all sorts of places you don't hear about.

I assume that the current provisional government has very little power, if any, outside the Mogadishu. Are there any warlords such as Aidid that still remain?

It went from very little control (basically a few city blocks in Mogadishu), to none a few weeks ago when Islamists took all of Mogadishu and southern Somalia. Aidid died years ago, but types like him are still around, controlling the rest of the country, except for Somaliland of course. WMS will speak much more about that.

While I would dearly love to have a map of the current positions, I don't, so there's a fair amount of guessing here...

BRTD, the Islamic Courts do appear to control Mogadishu, but don't appear to have taken all of southern Somalia. They took some place called Jowhar as well, which was to the north of Mogadishu, but haven't taken Baidoa, although they might be trying to. They don't control the Baidoa-Bardera area because I suspect the Ethiopians control that. I haven't heard of them in Kismayu yet...and I have no idea who controls the area between Jowhar and Puntland. As for boris' warlord question: go here.

Somaliland (and Puntland, I suspect)...the most recent reference I have as to their role comes from the right-leaning (but not always) pro-military site StrategyPage.com: "June 20, 2006: The Transitional Government is calling for military assistance in the form of African Union peacekeepers. These are unlikely to arrive. But the United States may intervene, if the Islamic Courts make a move on the independent Somali states of Somaliland and Puntland in the north. Moreover, the Islamic Courts do not control all of the central and southern Somalia. Clan leaders, some of who give lip service to the Islamic Courts, still control most of the area. The Islamic Courts have a force of several hundred gunmen who have shown they can move fast and fight hard. Most clan militias can do neither, so this small force gives the Islamic Courts a lot of power, but not a lot of control, in Somalia."

We'd damn well better help Somaliland against the Islamic Courts, or I'll go sign the Bush impeachment petition!

[Bono]

2. It is most unfortunate the Islamists who have taken over southern Somalia have chosen for themselves a leader said to be friendly to Al Qaeda because otherwise I would have been inclined to have the United States (obviously for pragmatic realpolitik reasons) maintain a working relationship with them to re-organize the country while hunting down Al Qaeda suspects through the length and breadth of the land. 

THey haven't taken over Southern Somalia. They have taken over Mogadishu and some of its suburbs.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

What's going on now is the same old clan-based fighting that has been afflicting Somalis for over a decade.  The only change is that one of the clans has gotten that old time religion.  Somalia today is very reminicent of Afghanistan a decade ago, with the Islamic Court faction playing the role of the Taliban.  If the moderates within the IC are able to control things, what happened with the kicking out of the warlords could be the beginning of the end of the Somali civil war.  If not, they are in for moreinstability as we try to destabilize the regime.

[MaC]

Anarchy and an example of what woudl rsult if people like M&C got in charge(I like your social views but not yur radical ideas of endign all govenrment)

Easy dude!  That's quite the strawman on me.  (unless you're joking)

In any case, I stand by Somalia's fight for freedom.
As far as anarcho-capitalism goes, it'd be a really nice thing-a pipe dream for me, but I understand it's not too pragmatic.  I'm a minarchist, or 'real' libertarian-I hope that someday the warlords will stop and eventually the country becomes more capitalist until warlordism isn't profitable any longer.  Then a tiny government can watch over the country (and the Somalians can feel free to overrun this government if it's not to their liking)