Would Jesus have approved of the Holocaust?
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  Would Jesus have approved of the Holocaust?
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Question: Would Jesus have approved of the Holocaust?
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Yes
 
#2
No
 
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Total Voters: 42

Author Topic: Would Jesus have approved of the Holocaust?  (Read 7978 times)
Ben.
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« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2006, 04:01:04 AM »


Might as well ask 'What Would Bertie Wooster Do?'



More importantly what would Jeves do?
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #26 on: July 09, 2006, 06:15:52 AM »

The very last thing you want to be in an Old Testament tale is the first born.

But weren't Enoch (taken directly into heaven without experiencing death), Noah (the only righteous man found on earth), Abraham (the father of the faithful and the recipient of God's inheritance), and Jesus (Son of God) all the first born?
Didn't Jesus have four older brothers and an undefined number of sisters?
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Ebowed
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« Reply #27 on: July 09, 2006, 09:27:27 AM »

The very last thing you want to be in an Old Testament tale is the first born.

But weren't Enoch (taken directly into heaven without experiencing death), Noah (the only righteous man found on earth), Abraham (the father of the faithful and the recipient of God's inheritance), and Jesus (Son of God) all the first born?
Didn't Jesus have four older brothers and an undefined number of sisters?

Given that Jesus was born to a young and unmarried virgin, having four older brothers seems a bit unlikely.  He did have a younger brother, though, James, and possibly other unnamed brothers.
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afleitch
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« Reply #28 on: July 09, 2006, 09:59:05 AM »

Given the culture of the time, it would have been highly probable for Jesus to have had half brothers or sisters born after himself, coupled with the possibility Joseph could have fathered a child long before Mary was in the picture.
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phk
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« Reply #29 on: July 09, 2006, 10:45:29 AM »
« Edited: July 09, 2006, 10:52:59 AM by phknrocket1k »

The very last thing you want to be in an Old Testament tale is the first born.

But weren't Enoch (taken directly into heaven without experiencing death), Noah (the only righteous man found on earth), Abraham (the father of the faithful and the recipient of God's inheritance), and Jesus (Son of God) all the first born?
Didn't Jesus have four older brothers and an undefined number of sisters?

The Virgin Mary was anywhere from 9 to 14 when she had Baby Jesus, so how could a 9-14 year old possibly give birth to 5+ children?

To respond directly to the question however, probably not. Though I'm sure many Christian theologians such as Martin Luther would have.



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Undisguised Sockpuppet
Straha
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« Reply #30 on: July 09, 2006, 11:04:00 AM »

The very last thing you want to be in an Old Testament tale is the first born.

But weren't Enoch (taken directly into heaven without experiencing death), Noah (the only righteous man found on earth), Abraham (the father of the faithful and the recipient of God's inheritance), and Jesus (Son of God) all the first born?
Didn't Jesus have four older brothers and an undefined number of sisters?

The Virgin Mary was anywhere from 9 to 14 when she had Baby Jesus, so how could a 9-14 year old possibly give birth to 5+ children?

To respond directly to the question however, probably not. Though I'm sure many Christian theologians such as Martin Luther would have.




And many moslem theologians
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #31 on: July 09, 2006, 05:52:32 PM »

The very last thing you want to be in an Old Testament tale is the first born.

But weren't Enoch (taken directly into heaven without experiencing death), Noah (the only righteous man found on earth), Abraham (the father of the faithful and the recipient of God's inheritance), and Jesus (Son of God) all the first born?
Didn't Jesus have four older brothers and an undefined number of sisters?

Given that Jesus was born to a young and unmarried virgin, having four older brothers seems a bit unlikely.  He did have a younger brother, though, James, and possibly other unnamed brothers.
No, they're explicitly named. I think in Mark, might be wrong. Not sure if they're all older, but James is addressed as his older brother... somewhere. The "virgin" is of course due to an error in the translation.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #32 on: July 09, 2006, 11:18:57 PM »

But weren't Enoch (taken directly into heaven without experiencing death), Noah (the only righteous man found on earth), Abraham (the father of the faithful and the recipient of God's inheritance), and Jesus (Son of God) all the first born?

I believe you're taking a handful of cases (e.g. Ishmael/Isaac, Esau/Jacob) where the firstborn was not the child of promise and making too broad of a conclusion.

Well first off, note that none of those did anything to displease JHVH, but you're also forgetting Cain and Abel, Adonijah and Solomon, and even in an indirect way Leah and Rachel can be considered part of that same OT theme of its better to be young.  Note also that Moses was the younger brother of Aaron, and certainly don't forget that JHVH killed all the first-born of Egypt.
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MissCatholic
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« Reply #33 on: July 10, 2006, 12:17:21 PM »

would jesus approve of spreading democracy through the barrel of a gun?
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jmfcst
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« Reply #34 on: July 10, 2006, 05:05:47 PM »

But weren't Enoch (taken directly into heaven without experiencing death), Noah (the only righteous man found on earth), Abraham (the father of the faithful and the recipient of God's inheritance), and Jesus (Son of God) all the first born?
Didn't Jesus have four older brothers and an undefined number of sisters?

Actually, I was referring to Jesus being the firstborn of the family of believers.  I should have simply left Jesus out of my list and went only with Enoch, Noah, and Abraham.

But, I couldn't really have left Jesus out because my point is that being the firstborn was a blessing in the Old Testament, for the firstborn was the heir...but it didn't always work out that way in the Old Testament because the firstborn was not always the child of promise.

The reason it didn't always work out in the Old Testament is because the characters in the Old Testament were NOT the focus of the lesson of being the firstborn or child of promise.  Rather, JESUS IS THE FOCUS - the old testament prophesies about being the firstborn and child of promise ARE FULFILLED IN JESUS, who was BOTH the firstborn and the child of promise.

The ENTIRE bible, both Old Testament and New Testament, is all about Jesus.  And all the promises of scripture reach their fulfillment in Jesus.
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jmfcst
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« Reply #35 on: July 10, 2006, 05:19:08 PM »

But weren't Enoch, Noah, and Abraham all the first born?

Well first off, note that none of those did anything to displease JHVH...

To the contrary, I am sure they did indeed sin and displease God, for they were NOT sinless.

More importantly, I totally disagree with your assertion that God's choices are based on merit, for it makes a mockery out of God's grace.  For even in the case of Esau (firstborn and rejected) and Jacob (2nd born and accepted), their standing with God was NOT based on merit, for God chose between the two BEFORE either had done anything good or bad:

Rom 9:10-13 Rebekah's children [Esau and Jacob] had one and the same father, our father Isaac. 11Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God's purpose in election might stand: 12not by works but by him who calls—she was told, 'The older will serve the younger.' 13Just as it is written: 'Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.'
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Platypus
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« Reply #36 on: July 11, 2006, 01:27:48 PM »

would jesus approve of spreading democracy through the barrel of a gun?

Jesus wouldn't approve of spreading Democracy full stop, until it was tied completely into Christianity Tongue
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #37 on: July 11, 2006, 02:31:11 PM »

Not so; render unto Caesar and all that. He weren't no Theocrat.
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Undisguised Sockpuppet
Straha
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« Reply #38 on: July 11, 2006, 09:49:32 PM »

No because he would have been gassed. Rmeember jesus was jewish.
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