2024 Third Party and Independent Candidate General discussion

[Tekken_Guy]

She’s considered a progressive Californian who donated many dollars to Biden 2020. Now flipping to RFK Jr.

Bad news for the Biden stooges who are straining to characterize RFK jr as Rand Paul’s carbon copy just cause of “anti-vaccines!!” .. RFK Jr’s political leanings, as a whole, lean more left than right

Good news for Biden is that virtually nobody knows who she is and will be voting for the ticket solely because for her.

so nobody  knows who she is right now. Does that mean nobody will know who she is in November (and will consider her presence on the ticket as RFK Jr’s running mate)?

I’m pretty sure there are several months until November; and she will give interviews and speeches all over the circuit to get her name out there

Nobody pays attention to third party running mates. Who remembers who Ross Perot’s running mate was, or Ralph Nader’s, or Gary Johnson’s?

I mean, people definitely remember Stockdale. Winona LaDuke, even though she went on to get electoral votes, and Jim Gray, are pretty irrelevant. Ditto for Weld. You could make the same argument about Stein's running mates in 2012 and 2016.

To be fair, Stockdale was probably more well-known than Perot going into the election.

[The Mikado]

She’s considered a progressive Californian who donated many dollars to Biden 2020. Now flipping to RFK Jr.

Bad news for the Biden stooges who are straining to characterize RFK jr as Rand Paul’s carbon copy just cause of “anti-vaccines!!” .. RFK Jr’s political leanings, as a whole, lean more left than right

Good news for Biden is that virtually nobody knows who she is and will be voting for the ticket solely because for her.

so nobody  knows who she is right now. Does that mean nobody will know who she is in November (and will consider her presence on the ticket as RFK Jr’s running mate)?

I’m pretty sure there are several months until November; and she will give interviews and speeches all over the circuit to get her name out there

Nobody pays attention to third party running mates. Who remembers who Ross Perot’s running mate was, or Ralph Nader’s, or Gary Johnson’s?

I mean, people definitely remember Stockdale. Winona LaDuke, even though she went on to get electoral votes, and Jim Gray, are pretty irrelevant. Ditto for Weld. You could make the same argument about Stein's running mates in 2012 and 2016.

To be fair, Stockdale was probably more well-known than Perot going into the election.

Stockdale was a hero and an icon for many, yes. And he completely torched his reputation by getting onto a ticket that didn't have any clear plans other than "I'm mad as hell" and had to go into details on political debates he never thought about before (there are other things to think about while spending seven years in a POW camp than whether or not abortion should be legal) while running as the partner of a man who could change his mind at any time.

[Open Source Intelligence]

She’s considered a progressive Californian who donated many dollars to Biden 2020. Now flipping to RFK Jr.

Bad news for the Biden stooges who are straining to characterize RFK jr as Rand Paul’s carbon copy just cause of “anti-vaccines!!” .. RFK Jr’s political leanings, as a whole, lean more left than right

Good news for Biden is that virtually nobody knows who she is and will be voting for the ticket solely because for her.

so nobody  knows who she is right now. Does that mean nobody will know who she is in November (and will consider her presence on the ticket as RFK Jr’s running mate)?

I’m pretty sure there are several months until November; and she will give interviews and speeches all over the circuit to get her name out there

Nobody pays attention to third party running mates. Who remembers who Ross Perot’s running mate was, or Ralph Nader’s, or Gary Johnson’s?

Perot: 1992-Admiral James Stockdale, 1996-Pat Choate
Nader: 2004 was Matt Gonzalez, I feel like Peter Camejo might've been one at some point
Johnson: 2016-Bill Weld, 2012 I forget

[Open Source Intelligence]

She’s considered a progressive Californian who donated many dollars to Biden 2020. Now flipping to RFK Jr.

Bad news for the Biden stooges who are straining to characterize RFK jr as Rand Paul’s carbon copy just cause of “anti-vaccines!!” .. RFK Jr’s political leanings, as a whole, lean more left than right

Good news for Biden is that virtually nobody knows who she is and will be voting for the ticket solely because for her.

so nobody  knows who she is right now. Does that mean nobody will know who she is in November (and will consider her presence on the ticket as RFK Jr’s running mate)?

I’m pretty sure there are several months until November; and she will give interviews and speeches all over the circuit to get her name out there

Nobody pays attention to third party running mates. Who remembers who Ross Perot’s running mate was, or Ralph Nader’s, or Gary Johnson’s?

I mean, people definitely remember Stockdale. Winona LaDuke, even though she went on to get electoral votes, and Jim Gray, are pretty irrelevant. Ditto for Weld. You could make the same argument about Stein's running mates in 2012 and 2016.

To be fair, Stockdale was probably more well-known than Perot going into the election.

How old are you?

Stockdale's defense by Dennis Miller in his stand-up I thought always captured him perfectly.

[Open Source Intelligence]

She’s considered a progressive Californian who donated many dollars to Biden 2020. Now flipping to RFK Jr.

Bad news for the Biden stooges who are straining to characterize RFK jr as Rand Paul’s carbon copy just cause of “anti-vaccines!!” .. RFK Jr’s political leanings, as a whole, lean more left than right

Good news for Biden is that virtually nobody knows who she is and will be voting for the ticket solely because for her.

so nobody  knows who she is right now. Does that mean nobody will know who she is in November (and will consider her presence on the ticket as RFK Jr’s running mate)?

I’m pretty sure there are several months until November; and she will give interviews and speeches all over the circuit to get her name out there

Nobody pays attention to third party running mates. Who remembers who Ross Perot’s running mate was, or Ralph Nader’s, or Gary Johnson’s?

I mean, people definitely remember Stockdale. Winona LaDuke, even though she went on to get electoral votes, and Jim Gray, are pretty irrelevant. Ditto for Weld. You could make the same argument about Stein's running mates in 2012 and 2016.

To be fair, Stockdale was probably more well-known than Perot going into the election.

Stockdale was a hero and an icon for many, yes. And he completely torched his reputation by getting onto a ticket that didn't have any clear plans other than "I'm mad as hell" and had to go into details on political debates he never thought about before (there are other things to think about while spending seven years in a POW camp than whether or not abortion should be legal) while running as the partner of a man who could change his mind at any time.

It was never his intention to be vice presidential nominee. Perot called him and said he needed a stand-in for vice presidential nominee to get on state ballots and that he would be replaced later (how most states' ballot access laws work make this arrangement pretty much required for most non-Republican/Democratic parties). Stockdale agreed, but Perot wound up keeping him as the VP nominee, either lying to him to begin with, deciding to keep him, or him/his campaign were too lazy to make the change by the deadlines.

[GeorgiaModerate]

https://twitter.com/bluestein/status/1769759860017582371

[Compuzled_One]

Okay, well, good luck for him trying to take back the GOP.

Anyway, what does No Labels do now? Endorse Kennedy? Crossnominate Biden?

[The Mikado]

https://twitter.com/bluestein/status/1769759860017582371

I think it should be GOP 5.0 by now, surely?

V 1.0 debuted in 1854, with the highly effective 1.1 patch dropping in 1860 and its 1.2 1868 successor holding onto market share due to brand familiarity but slowly losing ground due to increasing bugginess. V 2.0 in 1896 was a soft rebrand, but 2.1 in 1901 was deeply polarizing, winning a lot of new fans but chasing off the old faithful. 2.2 reverted a lot of 2.1 in 1920, but contained a pretty fatal unpatched bug and V 2.3 not only saw GOP lose its market leader share, but spend the rest of the generation deeply tarred. V 2.4 in 1945 was a bit alarming to many but V 2.5 in 1952 finally calmed down many and proved the most popular version since 2.2's glory days. V 3.0's 1960 reveal initially had people asking what's really new, but that was cleared up when V 3.1 dropped in 1964 and instantly polarized the marketplace in entirely new ways. Many longtime users were disgusted by the new direction but many who had never really considered the product started looking in. V 3.2 smoothed out 3.1's rough edges and made GOP the dominant product again for a generation, though V 3.2 had a fatal crash in 1974 that reminded people that GOP wasn't known for the most stable of firmware. By the time V 3.3 released in 1980 people finally felt they had achieved peak GOP. To this day you'll hear nostalgic Gen Xers say GOP peaked in 3.3. In some ways, they had a point at least in terms of popularity. V 3.4 (codenamed "Newt" in dev) was aggressive in that 90s in your face style but lacked the combination of features with old timey simplicity in design that made 3.3 a household name. By 3.5's release in 2001, many thought that the 3.X line was past its sell-by date, but they dropped it just in case and it narrowly retook market dominance before catastrophic failure. Future users of 3.5 straight through to 2012 discovered that the 3 line was just well past its sell by date but most devs wanted to keep it going in hopes of reclaiming the glory years of 3.3. A rogue faction of devs proposed a new 4.0 in 2015, a reboot codenamed "Golden Don," but others in the team demanded they shut down production. Golden Don developed in secret despite the company's protestations and an update patch to the 4.0 beta was leaked in 2016 over company objections. It met roaring popularity with a substantial chunk of the userbase leading to an official 4.1 version in 2017. Many of the 4 series' creators' detractors hated this new version and quit in protest, but the install base just didn't want V 3.X anymore. Its days were over.

[Compuzled_One]

Honestly, the best candidate for No Labels (or any independent bid) would likely be McRaven, who I heard was brought up at some point. If any indie would win, it'd be the guy who helped get Osama killed. Plus, he can clearly deliver speeches.

[AltWorlder]

Okay, well, good luck for him trying to take back the GOP.

Anyway, what does No Labels do now? Endorse Kennedy? Crossnominate Biden?

If RFK does pick Scott Brown then they should definitely nominate this cross-party ticket

https://www.ettingermentum.news/p/the-official-rfk-jr-vp-tier-list

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Okay, well, good luck for him trying to take back the GOP.

Anyway, what does No Labels do now? Endorse Kennedy? Crossnominate Biden?

If RFK does pick Scott Brown then they should definitely nominate this cross-party ticket

https://www.ettingermentum.news/p/the-official-rfk-jr-vp-tier-list

Where did he generate these random names? Elon Musk? Really?

[GeorgiaModerate]

Okay, well, good luck for him trying to take back the GOP.

Anyway, what does No Labels do now? Endorse Kennedy? Crossnominate Biden?

If RFK does pick Scott Brown then they should definitely nominate this cross-party ticket

https://www.ettingermentum.news/p/the-official-rfk-jr-vp-tier-list

Where did he generate these random names? Elon Musk? Really?

I'm not gonna sign up to read the rest of the article, but hopefully he acknowledges that Musk isn't eligible.

[The Mikado]

Okay, well, good luck for him trying to take back the GOP.

Anyway, what does No Labels do now? Endorse Kennedy? Crossnominate Biden?

If RFK does pick Scott Brown then they should definitely nominate this cross-party ticket

https://www.ettingermentum.news/p/the-official-rfk-jr-vp-tier-list

Where did he generate these random names? Elon Musk? Really?

I'm not gonna sign up to read the rest of the article, but hopefully he acknowledges that Musk isn't eligible.

Of course Musk isn't eligible and ettingermentum is an attention-seeking troll...

 But it's worth pointing out that being ineligible doesn't necessarily stop you from being on the ballot. Various minor third parties have gotten people under 35 or non-natural born citizens on the ballot before.

It'd prevent them from actually getting electoral votes but that's not a problem for RFK.

[AltWorlder]

That's exactly what he says.

C Tier

CEO Elon Musk (NP-TVL)


Yes, I know what you immediately thought here, and, yes, it’s true. Elon Musk was born in South Africa, which (mercifully) makes him constitutionally prohibited from serving as either president or vice president. If Musk were on Kennedy’s ticket and the two somehow ended up elected, he would be prohibited from taking up the office. However, being prohibited from serving does not mean one is prohibited from being on the ballot. There are several examples of ineligible candidates appearing on the ballot and receiving votes throughout American history, from Linda Jenness in the 1972 general election to Cenk Uygur in the Democratic primaries this year. Going off of those precedents, there shouldn’t be any reason why Musk would be treated any differently, especially since he has the resources and (probably) the will to secure a spot.

The real problem with Musk (besides, you know, everything else) is that one word: probably. Since Musk has endorsed Kennedy before and is very impulsive and very attention-seeking, it’s not hard to imagine him accepting the slot. Actually working for the ticket, though, is another matter entirely. We all know Elon’s modus operandi pretty well by now: he’d make a big deal of the whole event at the start, get childishly obsessed with it for a few days, and then abruptly get very bored and tell his lawyers to get him out of it. This would eventually spiral into a big petty feud with Kennedy himself that would leave both of their reputations worse off.

I’d call this the worst-case scenario, but, in truth, it feels like the only possible one. After years of observing Elon, it’s hard to imagine him acting any other way. Even if he somehow ends up committed to the ticket for the long haul, his upside is murky. Nobody could ever go wrong with the infinite resources he’d provide, but even that would be clouded by his past controversies and an ever-present confusion surrounding his (in)eligibility. Now, don’t get me wrong: Musk is a far more popular figure than many of us on the left give us credit for, especially by the very low standards of American politics. There is a lane for him out there for him to really help Kennedy’s campaign. It just doesn’t involve him being on the ticket outright.

[Neo-Malthusian Misanthrope]

Okay, well, good luck for him trying to take back the GOP.

Anyway, what does No Labels do now? Endorse Kennedy? Crossnominate Biden?

If RFK does pick Scott Brown then they should definitely nominate this cross-party ticket

https://www.ettingermentum.news/p/the-official-rfk-jr-vp-tier-list

Rob Schneider is... a VP contender? A herp de derp de deedly derp, rated PG-13.

[AltWorlder]

Okay, well, good luck for him trying to take back the GOP.

Anyway, what does No Labels do now? Endorse Kennedy? Crossnominate Biden?

If RFK does pick Scott Brown then they should definitely nominate this cross-party ticket

https://www.ettingermentum.news/p/the-official-rfk-jr-vp-tier-list

Rob Schneider is... a VP contender? A herp de derp de deedly derp, rated PG-13.

Rob's an anti-vaxx nut now (and also into other issues like being anti-trans), and he's kissed RFK's ring

https://twitter.com/RobSchneider/status/1673577492953833478

lmao was the rumor that he was in the running entirely based on this unsourced tweet using a slightly-related image (from a Kennedy '24 fundraiser in Brentwood last June)

https://twitter.com/theliamnissan/status/1673140904356454402

[Redban]

Biden team unveils strategy ... instead of getting people to actually like their guy, they will try to block voter choices to make people hold their noses

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/biden-democrats-robert-f-kennedy-jr-third-party.html

In recent weeks, the Democratic National Committee has built a unit dedicated to monitoring and responding to third-party candidates. ... Simultaneously, former Biden deputy campaign manager Pete Kavanuagh launched Clear Choice, a super-PAC whose goal is to help liberals coordinate their efforts to minimize third-party candidates’ political influence by the fall. Rather than planning a big negative-ad campaign now, the push is intended to organize previously disparate efforts to mount legal challenges to third-party campaigns’ attempts to get on ballots, and to research the candidates’ pasts

[AltWorlder]

Third parties are doomed in America because both parties will just do this crap for all time instead of getting rid of first-past-the-post or any other systemic changes, even if local stuff like ranked choice voting might make it to some jurisdictions.

I strongly suspect the reason why Perot got as far as he did was because in 1992 it was still quite novel to see an independent candidate get so much buzz, so there weren't as many mechanisms preventing him from gaining public attention (much less votes). After Florida 2000, then that one midwestern state in 2020, the duopoly is on the warpath to shut any future challengers out. Got to close up all of the outlets that make any third party even quarter-viable. No way there will even be a presidential debate with a third candidate.

[Open Source Intelligence]

Third parties are doomed in America because both parties will just do this crap for all time instead of getting rid of first-past-the-post or any other systemic changes, even if local stuff like ranked choice voting might make it to some jurisdictions.

Just call out the criminals that they are being criminals utilizing Russian and Chinese methods of voter control. People like Maine Secretary of State Shenna Bellows belong in a jail cell for the same reason Donald Trump does according to most people that post here: undermining democracy.

To the quoted text, Biden has had a team in place for a couple months ago including the campaign hiring their own ballot access lawyer.

I wouldn't say they're doomed, but there are a couple things helping out third parties/independent-minded folks at the moment in my opinion:

1.) The 2 main national political parties have never been organizationally weaker in American history than they are now.
2.) In a lot of areas there are not 2 strong political parties, there's only 1 because neither party puts resources into areas where they don't have a chance to win. You're not a third party then, you're a second party. Democrats where I live don't run candidates, don't put forth an effort, don't even have people that run for State Convention Delegate or Precinct Committee (the people that in law run the county party, so how that works legally is a damn good question). The only effort I see them do is occasionally they make a post on Facebook. You can't waste a vote when it harms an organization that doesn't put forth an effort to start with and fail at their job to provide a credible alternative to the people in power when they overreach/become unresponsive to the populace.

[AltWorlder]

The two political parties are weak but all of the insurgent strength since 2016 has been entryism or otherwise subverting the establishment leadership from within the parties, rather than trying to open things up for more parties. All of the third parties seem somewhat dated now for some reason or another, sadly.

I think what's going to eventually happen is a lot of party in-fighting, feuding wings, eventual party crack-up, rather than newer parties challenging them. Whatever new "parties" are going to be groups like the DSA, who are essentially pressure groups branded as parties that just do fusionism the whole time.

[Open Source Intelligence]

The two political parties are weak but all of the insurgent strength since 2016 has been entryism or otherwise subverting the establishment leadership from within the parties, rather than trying to open things up for more parties. All of the third parties seem somewhat dated now for some reason or another, sadly.

I think what's going to eventually happen is a lot of party in-fighting, feuding wings, eventual party crack-up, rather than newer parties challenging them. Whatever new "parties" are going to be groups like the DSA, who are essentially pressure groups branded as parties that just do fusionism the whole time.

The irony is how nationalized politics is makes the parties intrinsically weaker. Trump and Sanders were entryists neither of which were really party members and their presidential candidacies in 2016 warped what their parties were. Trump was more successful in that respect than Sanders but Sanders succeeded in pushing the Democrats left and getting rid of Debbie Watterman Schultz. Since the two parties are more defined by the hate for their enemy instead of standing for anything positive in a policy sense, they'll just back the strong independent and abandon their own candidate that's destined to lose. You'll get some "principled" people stay behind just as you would anything else, but if given a choice between the party you hate winning versus an independent you agree with on some stuff, not many Republicans and Democrats are going to go down with the ship.

Perot was mentioned, it's really quite amazing to me in hindsight that Perot got 19% when you consider how much stronger institutionally the parties were then compared to now. If a Perot equivalent came around nowadays and you kept everything else the exact same, I think high 20s easy, just due to how much weaker the parties are now. Perot in high 20s nationally wins some states easily.

You can't really transplant a Perot into the legislature, but with Congress likewise a much weaker body now as far as its ability to accomplish much positive to our country's problems compared to the past (again due to intrinsically weak party organizations), you're going to see the elected ones that are not diehards skirt away to another alternative not as taxing when it comes to principal beliefs combined with coalitions by issue. With how weak the parties are structurally I'm more and more convinced our country will get our own Macron and it'll happen before I die (40 years at least hopefully).

[PSOL]

Sanders failed spectacularly in pushing the democrats left, I don’t think we need to kid ourselves of his   Influence now that he’s done as a political factor.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Okay, well, good luck for him trying to take back the GOP.

Anyway, what does No Labels do now? Endorse Kennedy? Crossnominate Biden?

If RFK does pick Scott Brown then they should definitely nominate this cross-party ticket

https://www.ettingermentum.news/p/the-official-rfk-jr-vp-tier-list

Rob Schneider is... a VP contender? A herp de derp de deedly derp, rated PG-13.

Rob's an anti-vaxx nut now (and also into other issues like being anti-trans), and he's kissed RFK's ring

https://twitter.com/RobSchneider/status/1673577492953833478

lmao was the rumor that he was in the running entirely based on this unsourced tweet using a slightly-related image (from a Kennedy '24 fundraiser in Brentwood last June)

https://twitter.com/theliamnissan/status/1673140904356454402

This is the first time I ever laughed at something Rob Schneider said.

[Malarkey Decider]

Sanders failed spectacularly in pushing the democrats left, I don’t think we need to kid ourselves of his   Influence now that he’s done as a political factor.

Comparing the Democratic Party Platforms of 2012 and 2020 would say otherwise.

[PSOL]

Sanders failed spectacularly in pushing the democrats left, I don’t think we need to kid ourselves of his   Influence now that he’s done as a political factor.

Comparing the Democratic Party Platforms of 2012 and 2020 would say otherwise.

Platforms don’t matter.