2024 Third Party and Independent Candidate General discussion

[wbrocks67]

But yes, those third parties are definitely appealing to more voters!

https://twitter.com/kaysteiger/status/1773371116637110278

[Yelnoc]

Oooh, I love a new Theory. Is sunlight supposed to be good or bad??

[Bandit3 the Worker]

Wait, so did RFK Jr just choose a literal random woman as his running mate, or is she well known in circles that I don't follow?

Of all the people on RFK Jr.'s short list, Shanahan may be one of the better choices.

[AltWorlder]

Oooh, I love a new Theory. Is sunlight supposed to be good or bad??

https://twitter.com/futurism/status/1771477681848123810

[Open Source Intelligence]

Dems are obsessed with stopping 3rd parties which is why less people buy their "democracy" stuff. I've never seen any other political party feel entitled to people's votes.

Their obsessed with not letting Trump get elected (which third parties will do) so our democracy doesn't have the possibility of ending. Such terrible people!

Then Biden should be a better candidate that appeals to more people with a better message that makes more people want to vote for him.

But no, the easy route is to just bar people from the ballot.

Pretty sure he objectively is. Sorry if you can't see that!

First, you fail at the English language.

Objective means verifiable information based on facts and evidence. Subjective means information or perspectives based on feelings, opinions, or emotions.

We're discussing though the difference in Biden getting 42% and Biden getting 52%. It's that 10% of the voters that Biden has to convince people that they should vote for him and not Robert Kennedy Jr., the No Labels candidate, Jill Stein, the Libertarian nominee, Donald Trump, etc. So in other words he has to go out and campaign to them and convince them they should choose him to be President. Not have his party behind the scenes endorse Chinese and Russian methods of conducting democracy of removing all other alternatives from the ballot to force a binary election.

https://ballot-access.org/2024/03/26/hawaii-democratic-party-officials-file-a-challenge-to-the-we-the-people-party/

Last month, the Hawaii Elections office determined that the We the People Party had enough valid signatures to be a qualified party. The party was formed by supporters of Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., because in Hawaii the petition for a new party requires far fewer signatures than the petition for independent presidential candidates.

Recently some Democratic Party officials challenged the validity of the party’s status. The challenge is not to the petition validity, but to the fact that in 2022, two of the officers of the We the People Party voted in the Democratic Party primary. The objectors say that this makes them Democrats, and that they are therefore not eligible to be officers of the We the People Party.

Hawaii does not have registration by party. Nothing in the election law supports the notion that if someone votes in a party primary, he or she is therefore trapped into being a party member for the infinite future. The challenge will face an administration hearing on March 28.

I was told once of a Republican challenge to Libertarian ballot access in Illinois by a person that was there. They just went through and challenged every single name on a petition. Went for several hours. They didn't have any evidence to back anything, they just hoped there was a shred of something that they could grab onto for what they needed. One should not be surprised that Democrats are little better. Meanwhile the Democrats and Republicans don't make any election reforms to remove what they perceive as the spoiler effect from elections because when the election is binary, all they have to do is say the other side is awful instead of having to do real work.

[Harlow]

Dems are obsessed with stopping 3rd parties which is why less people buy their "democracy" stuff. I've never seen any other political party feel entitled to people's votes.

Their obsessed with not letting Trump get elected (which third parties will do) so our democracy doesn't have the possibility of ending. Such terrible people!

Then Biden should be a better candidate that appeals to more people with a better message that makes more people want to vote for him.

But no, the easy route is to just bar people from the ballot.

Pretty sure he objectively is. Sorry if you can't see that!

"Biden is a good candidate who appeals to voters and therefore Democrats are right to expend energy blocking other candidates from appearing on the ballot" just is not a position that makes sense if Democrats want to be the party of protecting democracy. If they were secure in Biden's electability, they wouldn't worry about third party ballot access.

[Open Source Intelligence]

But no, the easy route is to just bar people from the ballot.

Pretty sure he objectively is. Sorry if you can't see that!

"Biden is a good candidate who appeals to voters and therefore Democrats are right to expend energy blocking other candidates from appearing on the ballot" just is not a position that makes sense if Democrats want to be the party of protecting democracy.

Well Democrats, like Republicans, lie.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Wait, so did RFK Jr just choose a literal random woman as his running mate, or is she well known in circles that I don't follow?

She's very wealthy, which I'm sure is a major factor, perhaps THE major factor.  He can use the money to help fund his ballot access efforts.  It's been reported that she put a majority of the money for his Super Bowl ad, which cost something like $7 million.

[wbrocks67]

Dems are obsessed with stopping 3rd parties which is why less people buy their "democracy" stuff. I've never seen any other political party feel entitled to people's votes.

Their obsessed with not letting Trump get elected (which third parties will do) so our democracy doesn't have the possibility of ending. Such terrible people!

Then Biden should be a better candidate that appeals to more people with a better message that makes more people want to vote for him.

But no, the easy route is to just bar people from the ballot.

Pretty sure he objectively is. Sorry if you can't see that!

"Biden is a good candidate who appeals to voters and therefore Democrats are right to expend energy blocking other candidates from appearing on the ballot" just is not a position that makes sense if Democrats want to be the party of protecting democracy. If they were secure in Biden's electability, they wouldn't worry about third party ballot access.

What does this even mean? No one can ever be secure in anyone's position. We literally won't know until Election Day. Why would anyone assume anyone is going to win, especially after 2016? What we *do* know is that third parties siphon off votes from candidates who *can* win versus third party candidates who *do not* have a chance at winning. Why is this so hard? I seriously don't understand how people can be like this when the danger of Trump is looming right over our heads.

[Harlow]

Dems are obsessed with stopping 3rd parties which is why less people buy their "democracy" stuff. I've never seen any other political party feel entitled to people's votes.

Their obsessed with not letting Trump get elected (which third parties will do) so our democracy doesn't have the possibility of ending. Such terrible people!

Then Biden should be a better candidate that appeals to more people with a better message that makes more people want to vote for him.

But no, the easy route is to just bar people from the ballot.

Pretty sure he objectively is. Sorry if you can't see that!

"Biden is a good candidate who appeals to voters and therefore Democrats are right to expend energy blocking other candidates from appearing on the ballot" just is not a position that makes sense if Democrats want to be the party of protecting democracy. If they were secure in Biden's electability, they wouldn't worry about third party ballot access.

What does this even mean? No one can ever be secure in anyone's position. We literally won't know until Election Day. Why would anyone assume anyone is going to win, especially after 2016? What we *do* know is that third parties siphon off votes from candidates who *can* win versus third party candidates who *do not* have a chance at winning. Why is this so hard? I seriously don't understand how people can be like this when the danger of Trump is looming right over our heads.

Democrats can make this case during the campaign if they like. But that's still not an argument for trying to block third party candidacies from the ballot, and it's a reason why I can't take Democrats claiming the election is about "protecting democracy" seriously.

If Democrats really wanted to protect democracy, they would help expand voter choice, not try everything in their power to limit it. Then they'd have more of a claim to the "protecting democracy" label.

[Redban]

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4560883-rfk-jr-super-pac-says-it-raised-2m-after-vp-announcement/amp/

RFK Jr. super PAC says it raised $2M after VP announcement

American Values 2024, the main outside group supporting Kennedy’s White House bid, raked in $2.1 million at a fundraiser on Tuesday, right after the official announcement of tech attorney and entrepreneur Nicole Shanahan joining his 2024 ticket, PAC head Tony Lyons shared first with The Hill.

[Arizona Iced Tea]

Dems are obsessed with stopping 3rd parties which is why less people buy their "democracy" stuff. I've never seen any other political party feel entitled to people's votes.

Their obsessed with not letting Trump get elected (which third parties will do) so our democracy doesn't have the possibility of ending. Such terrible people!

Then Biden should be a better candidate that appeals to more people with a better message that makes more people want to vote for him.

But no, the easy route is to just bar people from the ballot.

Pretty sure he objectively is. Sorry if you can't see that!

"Biden is a good candidate who appeals to voters and therefore Democrats are right to expend energy blocking other candidates from appearing on the ballot" just is not a position that makes sense if Democrats want to be the party of protecting democracy. If they were secure in Biden's electability, they wouldn't worry about third party ballot access.

So many red avatars are delusional about Biden. I am supporting Trump but even I agree Don is flawed in many ways and as angered too many people. But saying that Biden is objectively a good candidate and that people should be excited to vote for him screams entitlement.

[Open Source Intelligence]

Dems are obsessed with stopping 3rd parties which is why less people buy their "democracy" stuff. I've never seen any other political party feel entitled to people's votes.

Their obsessed with not letting Trump get elected (which third parties will do) so our democracy doesn't have the possibility of ending. Such terrible people!

Then Biden should be a better candidate that appeals to more people with a better message that makes more people want to vote for him.

But no, the easy route is to just bar people from the ballot.

Pretty sure he objectively is. Sorry if you can't see that!

"Biden is a good candidate who appeals to voters and therefore Democrats are right to expend energy blocking other candidates from appearing on the ballot" just is not a position that makes sense if Democrats want to be the party of protecting democracy. If they were secure in Biden's electability, they wouldn't worry about third party ballot access.

So many red avatars are delusional about Biden. I am supporting Trump but even I agree Don is flawed in many ways and as angered too many people. But saying that Biden is objectively a good candidate and that people should be excited to vote for him screams entitlement.

I think they're both sh*t in contrast.  

I think Biden if he wins will become a lame duck in his own party before we reach 2026. Once Trump is vanquished, what purpose does he serve? Why heel to him if you're an ambitious Democrat seeking to become new face of the party in this new future where all the Baby Boomers finally release their hold on power they've held now for 30 years? You're going to have all these Democrats start angling themselves for the presidency behind the scenes in the Invisible Primary and Biden will be from a completely different generation whose influence is literally dying not in tune with the Democratic Party the next generation of leaders want it to be.

(Trump in contrast for all his wrongs has made the Republican Party his instrument and has involved himself to great effect in primaries, so if he becomes President, Republicans the next 4 years are going to follow his leadership wanting his endorsement come 2028 - which we know he'll do - unless Trump's popularity the next 4 years among Republican voters fall off a cliff. This is why Nikki Haley is done in my opinion until the mid-2030s at earliest.

Biden's endorsement is not going to mean anywhere near as much in contrast for Democratic field clearing, nor has he ever shown during his time in charge a propensity to be that kind of leader, which helps reinforce the lame duckness. Biden could steer this off if he had a VP that could clear a field with Biden's endorsement - an Al Gore-type - but that's not Kamala Harris).

It's not like the people supporting him are calling to vote for Biden out of any great belief in the man or what he represents in contrast to the supporters of Reagan and Bill Clinton and Obama and Trump, it's entirely shaped by "here's the alternative, vote for me or our country is doomed", the absolute most negative form of campaigning and sales pitch imaginable, one used by former Presidents John Kerry and Hillary Clinton, and real former Presidents Lyndon Johnson and George H.W. Bush. So once that negative sales pitch works if it does, what happens once Election Season is over and forgotten?

[MichaelM24]

Dems are obsessed with stopping 3rd parties which is why less people buy their "democracy" stuff. I've never seen any other political party feel entitled to people's votes.

Their obsessed with not letting Trump get elected (which third parties will do) so our democracy doesn't have the possibility of ending. Such terrible people!

With all due respect, it's this anti-democratic point-of-view that drives me up the wall. Yes, if you are supporting a party that is actively trying to force third parties and independents off the ballots, as to restrict the options of voters, then yes, you are supporting terrible people.

Naturally, no one is telling you that you have to vote third party/independent. Vote for Biden if he's who you want to vote for.

But for those of us who want to vote for Claudia De la Cruz, or Michael Wood, or RFK Jr., or Bill Stodden, or Cornel West, or Rachele Fruit, or the eventual Libertarian or Green nominee, we're beholden to the options that the Democrats and Republicans begrudingly allow us.

I didn't vote Biden in 2020, and I sure as hell have no intention on supporting an anti-democratic party (which, if you're honest, is what the Democratic and Republican parties are). I know good people are supporting Biden, but if your idea is to force a two-way race between Trump and Biden, you're certainly not someone I see as an ally.

And if those are my only options, I won't vote in the presidential race whatsoever.

[AltWorlder]

https://twitter.com/polisci4bimbos/status/1773523114296476093

[Minnesota Mike]

The Georgia Legislature just passed an elections bill that among other things would make it easier for 3rd parties/independents to make the ballot. I would expect Gov Kemp will sign it. The bill would grant access to Georgia’s ballot to any political party that has qualified for the presidential ballot in at least 20 states or territories. I believe GA was one of the harder states for a presidential candidate to get on the ballot because only the Republicans, Democrats and Libertarians were on the ballot in 2016 & 2020.

https://apnews.com/article/georgia-elections-voting-presidential-election-78ee0d966327b242d129fe7fe9ac32ce?utm_campaign=TrueAnthem&utm_medium=AP&utm_source=Twitter

[Harlow]

https://twitter.com/polisci4bimbos/status/1773523114296476093

No idea what to make of that Green Party of DE account or tweet. The account hasn’t been active since 2020 and is full of a bunch of normie anti-Trump content (and even approving retweets of Joe Biden and Kamala Harris). My guess it’s some random person who happened to have access to the social media of the state party, but there were no tweets about any kind of electoral or party organizing from what I could tell.

And then one day they probably took some really powerful drug and rambled about dolphin-human babies. I don’t know.

Also, I thought his defense of taking his donation was incredibly weak, but Cornel West calls everyone “brother” or “sister” including Donald Trump. It’s a rhetorical device he uses as a pastor and doesn’t necessarily imply personal fondness, so I don’t know why that was the part of that statement that got amplified.

[Redban]

Ruling out a No-Labels bid, Christie cites the potential to take votes away from Biden. Presumably, Christie's polling/research shows this possibility

That Democrats would actually consider Christie over Biden is an indicator of how unsatisfied Democrats are with Biden: they would consider a pro-2nd Amendment, pro-life, low government spending conservative over Biden .

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/03/27/chris-christie-no-labels-president/

[mjba257]

https://twitter.com/polisci4bimbos/status/1773523114296476093

No idea what to make of that Green Party of DE account or tweet. The account hasn’t been active since 2020 and is full of a bunch of normie anti-Trump content (and even approving retweets of Joe Biden and Kamala Harris). My guess it’s some random person who happened to have access to the social media of the state party, but there were no tweets about any kind of electoral or party organizing from what I could tell.

And then one day they probably took some really powerful drug and rambled about dolphin-human babies. I don’t know.

Also, I thought his defense of taking his donation was incredibly weak, but Cornel West calls everyone “brother” or “sister” including Donald Trump. It’s a rhetorical device he uses as a pastor and doesn’t necessarily imply personal fondness, so I don’t know why that was the part of that statement that got amplified.

Not to get sidetracked, but there actually is a lot of very interesting science about the connection between dolphins and pregnant women. Dolphin's use sonar to communicate and is heavily theorized that they can see a fetus basically like an ultrasound.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Ruling out a No-Labels bid, Christie cites the potential to take votes away from Biden. Presumably, Christie's polling/research shows this possibility

That Democrats would actually consider Christie over Biden is an indicator of how unsatisfied Democrats are with Biden: they would consider a pro-2nd Amendment, pro-life, low government spending conservative over Biden .

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/03/27/chris-christie-no-labels-president/

You are making an unjustified logical leap that the votes he'd take away from Biden are necessarily Democratic votes.  They could be, and in fact more likely would be, independent and soft Republicans who would choose Biden over Trump.

[GeorgiaModerate]

The Georgia Legislature just passed an elections bill that among other things would make it easier for 3rd parties/independents to make the ballot. I would expect Gov Kemp will sign it. The bill would grant access to Georgia’s ballot to any political party that has qualified for the presidential ballot in at least 20 states or territories. I believe GA was one of the harder states for a presidential candidate to get on the ballot because only the Republicans, Democrats and Libertarians were on the ballot in 2016 & 2020.

https://apnews.com/article/georgia-elections-voting-presidential-election-78ee0d966327b242d129fe7fe9ac32ce?utm_campaign=TrueAnthem&utm_medium=AP&utm_source=Twitter

Yes, Georgia has historically been difficult for third parties to get on the ballot.  This is a good change.

[Redban]

RFK Jr has 6.7 million followers across Insta, Tiktok, Twitter, FB, Youtube, Threads, and Rumble. His State of the Union got 12.1 million views and 1.7 likes .

He has a following: the notion that he will finish 1-2% is becoming fantasy

https://www.axios.com/2024/03/28/rfk-jr-tik-tok-social-media-young-voters?

[Bandit3 the Worker]

RFK Jr has 6.7 million followers across Insta, Tiktok, Twitter, FB, Youtube, Threads, and Rumble. His State of the Union got 12.1 million views and 1.7 likes .

He has a following: the notion that he will finish 1-2% is becoming fantasy

https://www.axios.com/2024/03/28/rfk-jr-tik-tok-social-media-young-voters?

Almost everyone I know is voting for him.

[Open Source Intelligence]

RFK Jr has 6.7 million followers across Insta, Tiktok, Twitter, FB, Youtube, Threads, and Rumble. His State of the Union got 12.1 million views and 1.7 likes .

He has a following: the notion that he will finish 1-2% is becoming fantasy

https://www.axios.com/2024/03/28/rfk-jr-tik-tok-social-media-young-voters?

Almost everyone I know is voting for him.

You know quite the set of people.

Still though, it all depends on ballot access and he needs to get it.

[AltWorlder]

I mean idk even as half-assed and incoherent the Kanye West campaign was back in 2020 it kinda goes to show that ubiquity doesn't translate into votes.