If...The old counties still remained. UPDATE: Lancashire and Cheshire

[afleitch]

Yes, I was extremely bored But I decided to imagine how the 1997-2001 (and Holyrood)  constituencies of Scotland could have looked had the old counties not been abolished and constituencies follwed these boundaries as close as was possible.




To note- Cumbernauld, the little detatched bit of Dumbartonshire would have been large ebough to be it's own constituency. Bearsden and Milngavie would be one constituency. Edinburgh Pentlands dissapears, and an 'outer' Edinburgh constituency emerges. With Kincardine twined with Angus, Aberdeenshire looks 'cheated' out of a constituency if you compare it to the present. However with Kincardine attached to Angus, a slighty larger Aberdeen South and a larger Buchan and Moray, it should theoretically balance out (or the Aberdeen constituencies would extend a little further west)

In 2003, the Tories may have actually gained Perth, due to it extending into what is now the northern most part of the Stirling constituency, but may have lossed the new outer Edinburgh seat. Likewise the SNP may have retained Galloway, but the Tories gain Dumfries.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The old counties should still be used for electoral purposes IMO.

[minionofmidas]

Where's the Constituency boundary right through the Western Isles like pre-1918?

[afleitch]

The old counties should still be used for electoral purposes IMO.

It is, I think still possible. And in some areas makes more sense. 'Artificial' Ochil also dissapears, split between Perth and Stirlingshire. You do get a little more disparity between some constituencies, but no more than you find elsewhere

As for the Western Isles, it would have a case to remain a single constituency. The groupings (like Angus with Kincardine) is based on the 1979 map but just taken further on in time and bearing in mind the 1983-1992 changes too.

EDIT: I might have a stab at Yorkshire.

[afleitch]

Probably way off in this one...especially the constituencies around York itself

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Probably way off in this one...especially the constituencies around York itself

Nice to see the West Riding on a constituency map again

Comments:

1. Saddleworth is nowhere near big enough to have it's own seat; it would likely be in a seat (called Colne Valley o/c) with the western outskirts of Huddersfield (but not including the Lindley ward), Meltham et al and probably Holmfirth (they probably wouldn't want to split the Holme Valley wards) and maybe Denby Dale as well. Labour % would be about the same as current Colne Valley seat, but the LibDems would be higher and the Tories lower.

2. Keighley becomes a safe Labour seat, full stop (as Ilkley is removed) and Shipley switches from a Tory marginal to a Labour one (as it loses it's bit of Wharfedale). Skipton might be a legit LibDem target (as the old constituency was).

3. The angular boundaries of the seats west of York are impossible. Elmet probably wouldn't exist at all, and Selby might lose it's York suburbs and become linked with Goole (making it quite safe for Labour).

4. The coalfield boundaries are unlikely; the old Hemsworth seat would still be around (if trimmed a little) and Normanton would likely include the southern parts of what is now Elmet. In general there would be no need to keep with the West/South Yorks boundary, which is highly artificial in places.

5. Further west, the old Penistone seat would still be around (it's being re-created in real life anyway) and I don't see Wakefield looking like that. Sheffield's boundaries would likely be to the same pattern as before '83 (not that there'd be much political effect to that).

6. The absurdly named "East Yorkshire" seat would be safer for the Tories than the existing one, but it might be scrapped as a return to the old pattern in East Yorks is possible (although Beverley might stay with Holderness).

And so on and so forth. But in general:

[afleitch]

Thanks It was just a 20 minute job anyway. Lancashire would be interesting (especially abolishing the old metro boundaries which are too constraining) If I can get ward figures I might give it a more realistic shot

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The boundary commision's website has electorate figures down to ward level if that helps

[afleitch]

The boundary commision's website has electorate figures down to ward level if that helps

It's difficult I'll tell you that! I've tried to stay true to the pre '83 boundaries, one Wigan seat, one Bolton seat (it is possible) and re-establishing all those long, finger like constituencies that flow over the metropolitan boundaries. Rochdale, for example, stays on it's own and is surrounded by an arc-ing constituency containing Wardle and Heywood etc. But it's tough I'm still on the Greater Manchester area:)

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I've tried to stay true to the pre '83 boundaries, one Wigan seat

Yeah, Wigan is split between the Wigan and Makerfield constituencies at the moment IIRC. I think some of the town might actually be in Leigh as well...

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There were two Bolton seats (East and West). Only one Bury though.

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Heywood & Royton it was called IIRC.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

When I saw the thread title, I was thinking this was going to be alt-history thread in which Malcom II conquered all of Northumbria and his successors continued southward with their conquests.

[afleitch]

Sorry Ernest I have changed the title.

Up next, Lancashire and Cheshire...it was a nightmare and I'm probably way off (and given both counties a seat extra probably) and Ribble Valley should probably not exist.



Cheshire

City of Chester
Eddisbury
Crewe and Nantwich
Congleton
Macclesfield
Tatton
Altrincham
Cheadle
Stockport
Hazel Grove
Stalybridge and Hyde
Runcorn
Bebington and Ellsemere Port
Heswall
Kirby
Wallasey
Birkenhead

Lancashire

Wythenshawe
Manchester Withington
Manchester Gorton
Manchester Central
Manchester Blackley
Manchester Denton
Ashton Under Lyne
Oldham East
OldhamWest and Middleton
Rochdale
Heywood and Royton
Stretford and Urmston
Salford
Bury North
Bury South
Bolton North
Bolton South
Worsley
Leigh
Ince and Bickershawe
Westhoughton and Horwich                                                                                                 
Skelmersdale and Pemberton
Warrington
Newton and Widnes
Garston and Speke
Liverpool Riverside
Liverpool Wavertree
Liverpool Walton
Liverpool West Derby
Bootle
Crosby (West Sefton? No chance )
Knowsley and Prescot
St Helens
Ormskirk and Skelmersdale (as it's not really 'West' Lancashire)
Southport
South Ribble
Chorley
Rossendale and Darwen
Blackburn
Hyndburn
Nelson and Colne
Ribble Valley
Preston
Fylde
Wyre and Preston North
Blackpool North and Cleveleys
Blackpool South
Lancaster and Fleetwood
Morecambe and Lunsdale

[Rural Radical]

Sorry Ernest I have changed the title.

Up next, Lancashire and Cheshire...it was a nightmare and I'm probably way off (and given both counties a seat extra probably) and Ribble Valley should probably not exist.



Cheshire

City of Chester
Eddisbury
Crewe and Nantwich
Congleton
Macclesfield
Tatton
Altrincham
Cheadle
Stockport
Hazel Grove
Stalybridge and Hyde
Runcorn
Bebington and Ellsemere Port
Heswall
Kirby
Wallasey
Birkenhead

Lancashire

Wythenshawe
Manchester Withington
Manchester Gorton
Manchester Central
Manchester Blackley
Manchester Denton
Ashton Under Lyne
Oldham East
OldhamWest and Middleton
Rochdale
Heywood and Royton
Stretford and Urmston
Salford
Bury North
Bury South
Bolton North
Bolton South
Worsley
Leigh
Ince and Bickershawe
Westhoughton and Horwich                                                                                                 
Skelmersdale and Pemberton
Warrington
Newton and Widnes
Garston and Speke
Liverpool Riverside
Liverpool Wavertree
Liverpool Walton
Liverpool West Derby
Bootle
Crosby (West Sefton? No chance )
Knowsley and Prescot
St Helens
Ormskirk and Skelmersdale (as it's not really 'West' Lancashire)
Southport
South Ribble
Chorley
Rossendale and Darwen
Blackburn
Hyndburn
Nelson and Colne
Ribble Valley
Preston
Fylde
Wyre and Preston North
Blackpool North and Cleveleys
Blackpool South
Lancaster and Fleetwood
Morecambe and Lunsdale

Very Good. I was .born in Widnes and Newton

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Still, it's an interesting idea.  How would the SP look if it included Northumberland or at the very least Berwick-upon-Tweed?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Berwick is a Liberal town on the whole (although the very working class bits vote Labour in local elections (when Labour can find candidates) and the middle class bits vote Tory in local elections. At Westminster level, I'm pretty sure that both vote for Beith, not a normal LibDem by any means) and the rural areas around Berwick are quite mixed.

Adding Northumberland (as in the real pre-74 county) would just add a lot more Labour MSP's though.

[Rural Radical]

 I dont want to be arkward, but Wythenshawe would be a Cheshire constituency.