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Question: Do you support them?
yes   -16 (29.1%)
no   -39 (70.9%)
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Total Voters: 55

Author Topic: Teen curfews  (Read 26052 times)
Undisguised Sockpuppet
Straha
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« Reply #50 on: August 26, 2006, 09:50:56 am »
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Or why not ismply build big arcologies and make the poor live there away from normal society? Also put contraceptivesa in the food/water that goes into the arcology.
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Undisguised Sockpuppet
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« Reply #51 on: August 27, 2006, 11:13:42 am »
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Or why not ismply build big arcologies and make the poor live there away from normal society? Also put contraceptivesa in the food/water that goes into the arcology.

Look, let's be realistic here.

Nobody likes to live in the midst of dysfunctional people who create all sorts of problems, including crime, violence, decay, etc.

Anybody who says they don't mind that is either an idiot, or lying.

I think that those who conceived massive, high-rise housing projects were not realistic about the underlying causes of poverty, and the terrible effect that it would have to concentrate so many people of this type in one place.  Liberals who did away with screening of tenants in many projects in the name of 'rights' also did a terrible disservice to decent people who are forced by economic circumstance to live in or near public housing.

I favor more scattered-site housing, with as much being as close to market-based as possible.  It will be difficult to accomplish this now, though, since public housing now has such a bad name that any neighborhood for which this type of housing is proposed will fight it tooth and nail.

But in order for there to be any chance for the poor to improve their position, they must be in some proximity to people who don't live in poverty so they have a chance to escape being totally mired in the thinking and mentality that leads to intergenerational poverty.  The trick is make the concentration light enough that the rest of the people living in the neighborhood don't flee, as they have so often in the past when this type of housing was introduced.

There is also an undeniable racial element here that will be very difficult to overcome.  That's a big part of why people have tolerated horrible public housing, much as they hate it.
I'm noit talking about trying to improve their station I'm simply talking about keeping them away from everyone else and making sure they don't breed.
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angus
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« Reply #52 on: September 06, 2006, 01:54:49 pm »
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angus, did you prefer to be disciplined at school or at home?

School, no doubt.  For the reasons you state. 

I think we discussed this before.  See, for example,

http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=37239.msg838867#msg838867
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adam
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« Reply #53 on: September 06, 2006, 02:24:54 pm »
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I believe that the government should stop trying to dominate the lives of the youth and let the parents do their job.
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This is merely a polite notice.


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« Reply #54 on: September 06, 2006, 10:00:12 pm »
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I believe that the government should stop trying to dominate the lives of the youth and let the parents do their job.
Agree.
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« Reply #55 on: September 07, 2006, 09:52:13 pm »
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Quote
Am I the only one who thinks that's a very unsubtle encouragement for teens to smoke?

Smiley

probably not.


well anyway I'm still into imposing a curfew.  I don't care if anyone else does, frankly, and don't really think it the government's place.  But I'm definitely sold on the concept of a curfew for my son when he's older.
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« Reply #56 on: December 21, 2006, 06:31:37 pm »
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I just thought this thread needed bumping.

17 year olds can only be out to 11? Fascist!
Not to surprise you or anything, but that is exactly the case in Singapore.
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« Reply #57 on: December 21, 2006, 06:38:42 pm »
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Teen curfews are yet another attempt by deadbeat parents to get the government to do their job for them.

No, I don't support them.
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« Reply #58 on: December 21, 2006, 08:21:05 pm »
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curfew isn't till 1 a.m. on weekends here.
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« Reply #59 on: December 21, 2006, 08:46:56 pm »
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Teen curfews are yet another attempt by deadbeat parents to get the government to do their job for them.

No, I don't support them.
^^^^

I agree.  I support parents parents giving their kids curfews, but the government shouldn't be wasting their time keeping kids in their houses by a specific hour.

Rin-chan
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« Reply #60 on: December 26, 2006, 12:19:39 pm »
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It's an excellent idea. Teenagers should be locked up and slammed down.
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This place really has become a cesspool of degenerate whores...

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« Reply #61 on: December 26, 2006, 01:16:54 pm »
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Teens need to be forcefully hidden in a closet --totally support this..also it logically makes sense
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« Reply #62 on: December 26, 2006, 01:27:11 pm »
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Teens need to be forcefully hidden in a closet --totally support this..also it logically makes sense
Holy god are you insane?
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« Reply #63 on: December 29, 2006, 06:03:39 pm »
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Teen curfews are yet another attempt by deadbeat parents to get the government to do their job for them.

No, I don't support them.

Actually, the type of parents you talk about don't care whether their kids are out or not.

Teen curfews are generally sought by people in troubled communities that are being plagued by teen crime/vandalism because of the deadbeat parents that you talk about.  They want the government to step in and protect them because the parents aren't doing the job.

I think that this is pretty obvious, but what evidence is there that the reduction in crime is worth making me walking past midnight illegal?  This pisses me off to no end, being someone who tries to abide laws as much as possible.  I should be able to leave my house innocently without committing a crime.
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« Reply #64 on: December 29, 2006, 06:19:49 pm »
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Teen curfews are yet another attempt by deadbeat parents to get the government to do their job for them.

No, I don't support them.

Actually, the type of parents you talk about don't care whether their kids are out or not.

Teen curfews are generally sought by people in troubled communities that are being plagued by teen crime/vandalism because of the deadbeat parents that you talk about.  They want the government to step in and protect them because the parents aren't doing the job.

I think that this is pretty obvious, but what evidence is there that the reduction in crime is worth making me walking past midnight illegal?  This pisses me off to no end, being someone who tries to abide laws as much as possible.  I should be able to leave my house innocently without committing a crime.

I said yes when this thread was started, but have no clue why.

As of now, absolutely not.
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« Reply #65 on: December 29, 2006, 06:22:36 pm »
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Teen curfews are yet another attempt by deadbeat parents to get the government to do their job for them.

No, I don't support them.

Actually, the type of parents you talk about don't care whether their kids are out or not.

Teen curfews are generally sought by people in troubled communities that are being plagued by teen crime/vandalism because of the deadbeat parents that you talk about.  They want the government to step in and protect them because the parents aren't doing the job.

If teens are statistically more likely to cause crime in the small hours of the night, why is that a good reason to force all teens not to be out past some arbitrary time?

Blacks are statistically more likely to cause crime too.  Should we have a "black people curfew"?
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« Reply #66 on: December 29, 2006, 07:02:54 pm »
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police distractions from real crime, much in the same way enforcing marijuana and prositution laws wastes taxpayer dollars.
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« Reply #67 on: December 29, 2006, 07:49:42 pm »
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You make a mistake, dazzleman.  Most racist white people support racial profiling.
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...anyone who says our society must force people to expose themselves to those of the opposite sexual orientation, is not decent.

So you mean if we force the gay to be exposed to the straight, we are treating the gay indecently?  Because you didn't specify which direction the hate was supposed to go there, Black Beans.
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« Reply #68 on: December 29, 2006, 07:51:23 pm »
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The person who is saved from being a crime victim thinks it's worth it.  That's what it really comes down to.

It's the same issue with racial profiling.  Most white people implicitly support racial profiling because without it, they'd have to deal with a higher crime rate.  To them, it's worth it.  It's really just what side of the fence you're on, and I don't think there's a right or wrong position unless things are really taken to the extreme.

So, you would support a sundown law to keep blacks in their houses?

Maybe males, too?
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« Reply #69 on: December 29, 2006, 07:58:58 pm »
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Oh, be realistic.  Most people won't admit to supporting it, but if their neighborhoood starts to suffer from crimes commited by blacks, they will sure as hell support it.

I think your statement is naive.  If racial profiling didn't have broad support, it wouldn't continue.

I would not, and I don't particularly give a damn what other people would support, to be honest.  I couldn't face my friends and explain to them why being born an inconvenient skin colour would force them to stay inside after dark, no matter how decent they are and no matter what they do.

I would still appreciate an answer to my questions.
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« Reply #70 on: December 29, 2006, 08:04:59 pm »
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As I said, it shouldn't be taken to the extreme.

There is some legitimate basis to regulate certain behaviors on the basis of age, whether you want to admit that or not.  When you get older, you'll probably change your position.

Please don't do that.  There's really nothing more annoying in a debate than, "you'll know better when you're older."  That's cheap.  My belonging to the target group is irrelevant to me.

There really isn't a legitimate basis to regulate behavior on the basis of race or gender.

Why not?  Men are much more likely to commit crimes than women.

I haven't even said I support a teen curfew outright; I've just tried to explain the reasons why some people find it an attractive option.  I don't have a problem with the teenagers in my area, since the worst they generally do is drink on the golf course next to my house.  I'm a cool guy and don't complain about it as some people might, so long as they don't bother my property, which they never have.

Well, that's fine.  I understand why people support it, and so does everyone here, and I don't think an explanation of that is really necessary.  This is a debate over its validity, since I'm pretty sure everyone understands the emotions involved.

I have yet to see a single conclusive study that says not allowing anyone to leave their house at night because they aren't old enough, results in a lower crime rate.  Until I do, I'm going to err on the side of not having innocent people jailed for doing something that causes harm to no one simply because of statistics.

But if there were gangs of predatory teenagers around me, I'd support taking action against them.

So would I.  Actions that do not infringe on the rights of the innocent.
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« Reply #71 on: December 29, 2006, 08:07:48 pm »
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There really isn't a legitimate basis to regulate behavior on the basis of race or gender.

Why?  Blacks are, if I recall correctly, something like four times more likely as whites to commit crimes.  If we're working on the basis of statistical likelihood, that's a rather strong one.
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« Reply #72 on: December 29, 2006, 08:08:30 pm »
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Get down off your high horse.  You're now acting like a teenager.  I've presented my views respectfully, and was in the middle of typing a response to your questions when you made your huffy little statment.

Err, I wasn't meaning to sound angry when I said "I don't give a damn."  I wasn't being huffy or emotional, I promise.  I was just saying that I don't give a damn.  In a Charlie Sheen kind of way, not a Martin Sheen one.  Imagine it with sunglasses.  It's all cool, I swear.

Profiling doesn't force people to stay inside.  It simply increases the risk that they will be the subject of police scrutiny.  Technically, if they're doing nothing illegal, they need not fear it, though I recognize the inconvenience and aggravation that it causes.

Err, what?  Do you understand how curfews work?  (Not meaning to sound bad here either - but I'm not sure what you're talking about, since curfews mean you break the law the moment you leave your home.)

But profiling works both ways.  If I go into certain neighborhoods, it will be assumed that I'm there to buy drugs.

I was actually suspected of being a dealer for a while.  Tongue  Long story, but I understand what you're saying.

I'm just being practical here, and trying to point out that there is a downside to all this high-minded talk against curfews and profiling.

I understand the thoughts and feelings behind that.  I would never attack someone for desiring safety.  I do not live in a safe city.  I understand the frustration of crime, and how awful it feels to wake up to find your car gone or a window broken.  I've had prize possessions stolen.

Which is exactly why I understand that, while the emotions are fine, the knee-jerk political reaction to crime isn't.  I would never attack anyone's desire for safety; I am just attacking the political positions.  I hope the two won't be confused, here.
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« Reply #73 on: December 29, 2006, 08:09:58 pm »
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There really isn't a legitimate basis to regulate behavior on the basis of race or gender.
But there is a legitimate basis to regulate behaviour on the basis of age?
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« Reply #74 on: December 29, 2006, 08:12:05 pm »
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There really isn't a legitimate basis to regulate behavior on the basis of race or gender.

Why?  Blacks are, if I recall correctly, something like four times more likely as whites to commit crimes.  If we're working on the basis of statistical likelihood, that's a rather strong one.

They're four times more likely to get caught.
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...anyone who says our society must force people to expose themselves to those of the opposite sexual orientation, is not decent.

So you mean if we force the gay to be exposed to the straight, we are treating the gay indecently?  Because you didn't specify which direction the hate was supposed to go there, Black Beans.
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