Is there any job inside a church that a woman shouldn't perform?
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  Is there any job inside a church that a woman shouldn't perform?
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Poll
Question: i.e. one that a man can perform but a woman shouldn't
#1
Yes
 
#2
No
 
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Total Voters: 21

Author Topic: Is there any job inside a church that a woman shouldn't perform?  (Read 2922 times)
nclib
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« on: August 24, 2006, 02:24:20 PM »

I got this idea from this thread.

Of course I vote no.
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J. J.
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« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2006, 02:41:12 PM »

Men's room attendent.

My (Episcopal) priest's first name is Lula.  Smiley
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John Dibble
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« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2006, 02:49:22 PM »

Depends on the religion and the specific interpretation thereof I suppose.
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dazzleman
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« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2006, 04:18:35 PM »

No, I don't see why there's any job that a man can do in the church that a woman shouldn't be allowed to do.
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Speed of Sound
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« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2006, 04:23:05 PM »

'Tis a shame to see anyone there at all, but while theyre there, I dont see why any job shouldnt be open for both sides.
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StatesRights
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« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2006, 04:33:06 PM »

Yes, Priest, Preacher, Deacon, Minister, church leader.
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TeePee4Prez
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« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2006, 04:36:52 PM »

Sex, but only in public.  It should be okay in a confessional. PWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
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Alcon
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« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2006, 04:37:17 PM »

Yes, Priest, Preacher, Deacon, Minister, church leader.

Why?

Sex, but only in public.  It should be okay in a confessional. PWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Flyers, this may surprise you, but there are some people who have sex with people who aren't being paid for it!

Tongue
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2006, 04:56:12 PM »

No
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Queen Mum Inks.LWC
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« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2006, 04:57:05 PM »

Head Pastor--maybe.  I used to always think you couldn't be head Pastor, but after researching more, I've moved to Yes/Neutral.  But for here, I'll still go yes, b/c that's wher eI lean now.
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Dr. Cynic
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« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2006, 04:59:01 PM »

No... Men and Women are equal under the law, therefore I see no reason to keep women from becoming Priests, and no reason to keep men from being taboo jobs like Secretaries or Flight Attendants.
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Alcon
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« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2006, 04:59:31 PM »

As a hopeless secularist, I'd like to hear the arguments in favour of this from those who voted yes, leaning or otherwise. Smiley
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Dr. Cynic
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« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2006, 05:07:41 PM »

Well Alcon, my guess is that those who vote yes believe in the draconian laws of the churches from the past that held men superior and masters of thier doman... I suppose those who voted yes just can't come to grips on the fact, and let's face it, we men have become pussy-whipped.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2006, 05:09:00 PM »

The usual excuse is a disputed passage from one of the most disputed parts of the NT.
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J. J.
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« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2006, 05:23:03 PM »

Something tells me God has neither an X or a Y chromosome.
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Miamiu1027
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« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2006, 11:10:00 PM »

Who cares.  Religion is by definition malecentric (can't think of a better word).
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jerusalemcar5
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« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2006, 11:33:45 PM »

Who cares.  Religion is by definition malecentric (can't think of a better word).

Except for when it isn't...?
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StatesRights
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« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2006, 12:26:19 AM »


Go read what the bible says on women leading churches. However, like I said, the bible has no qualms with women holding non leadership positions.

No... Men and Women are equal under the law..

Human law, correct.
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Citizen James
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« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2006, 12:41:49 AM »

Depends on the church.

Being a free nation, people have a choice to congregate  in any church of their choosing, as long as they do not directly violate secular laws (i.e. use of halucinogens, human sacrafice, etc.)

If people  disagree with a church's teachings or methods, they are free to attend/support a different  church (or none at all) and not support or attend that particular  institution.
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jmfcst
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« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2006, 12:48:35 AM »

The usual excuse is a disputed passage from one of the most disputed parts of the NT.

A disputed passage from the disputed part of the NT?  Such colorful adjectives. Sounds spooky!  As long as I can add a couple of verbs to the mix, count me in!

What this dispute needs is a little organization.  So let us organize it, shall we?

Guards, bring in the disputed passage:

1Cor 14:33-38 As in all the congregations of the saints, 34women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.  36Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? 37If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord's command. 38If he ignores this, he himself will be ignored.

1Tim 2:11-14 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.

I said “disputed passage”, not “disputed passages”!  Why is there two?  Didn’t Aloo Hair say passage and not passages?!  Guards, send these two passages back to their chambers until we sort out which one is the “disputed passage.”

Scribe, bring me a bible and let’s start at the beginning so that we can get to the bottom of this, instead of starting at the end and just skimming the top.

Question 1:  What is the beginning of the bible?
Answer from the Crowd: The book of Genesis, sir.

Question 2:  And with whom did the word of God originate in the book of Genesis?
Answer from the Crowd:  With Adam, sir, for it is written in Genesis 2:16-17 “God commanded the man, ‘You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die.’ "

Question 3:  And was Adam also the first to misuse the word of God?
Answer from the Crowd:  No, sir, it was the woman, for it is written in Genesis 3:6: “When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it.”

Question 4: And what did this misuse of the word do to the authority of the woman?
Answer from the Crowd:  God said to the woman in Genesis 3:16, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."

Question 5:  Were women prevented from serving in the priesthood in the Old Testament?
Answer from the Crowd:  Yes, sir. Of the ordination of the priest of the Old Testament, it is written in Leviticus 8: “The Lord said to Moses, ‘Bring Aaron and his sons, their garments, and the anointing oil’…Moses poured some of the anointing oil on Aaron's head and anointed him to consecrate him. 13 Then he brought Aaron's sons forward, put tunics on them, tied sashes around them and put headbands on them, as the LORD commanded Moses.”

Question 6:  Was there not one woman found among the priests of the Old Testament?
Answer from the Crowd:  No, sir, not one.

Question 7:  What about the New Testament – whom did Jesus choose as the Twelve?
Answer from the Crowd:  Their names are given in Matthew 10:2-4, “These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon (who is called Peter) and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John; 3Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; 4Simon the Zealot and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.”

Question 8:  Was there not one woman found among the Apostles of Jesus in the New Testament?
Answer from the Crowd:  Not one, sir.

Question 9:  So, then, Jesus held to the pattern handed down by Genesis and Leviticus?
Answer from the Crowd:  Yes, it appears so, sir.

Question 10:  And what was it Paul wrote in the “disputed passages”?
Answer from the Crowd:  Paul wrote “Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says.” And, “I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man.”

Question 11:  And what was Paul’s reasoning?
Answer from the Crowd:  He referenced the book of Genesis and stated, “For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.”

Question 12:  Paul referenced the book of Genesis?
Answer from the Crowd:  Yes, sir, Paul started at the beginning to the get to the bottom of the matter.

Question 13:  So, if the scriptures speak in one accord of this matter, what is this entire “dispute” about?
Answer from the Crowd:  We don’t rightly know, sir.

Question 14:  Did the word of God originate with these doubters, or are they the only people it has reached?
Answer from the Crowd:  No, sir.

Question 15: What then shall we do?
Answer from the Crowd:  Give this decree: “If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what is written in the bible is the Lord's command. If he ignores it, he himself will be ignored.”
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Dr. Cynic
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« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2006, 12:59:37 AM »


Go read what the bible says on women leading churches. However, like I said, the bible has no qualms with women holding non leadership positions.

No... Men and Women are equal under the law..

Human law, correct.

Yes, and as far as I'm concerned, there is no other law that I am concerned to answer to. The bible also advocated slavery... Not exactly a very christian institution if you ask me.
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StatesRights
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« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2006, 01:02:22 AM »

The bible also advocated slavery... Not exactly a very christian institution if you ask me.

Obviously you know very little about slavery during biblical times.
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Dr. Cynic
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« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2006, 01:12:57 AM »

My grandfather was a minister, and he told me bible stories every day, so don't tell me I don't know the bible.

I believe there is a passage, and forgive me for not being able to name it offhand, that asks for "slaves to be good slaves, and masters to be good masters." Clearly anyone who knows anything about slavery knows there is no good to come of it.

And you may quote the Exodus as contradictory, but then I will ask you then if the bible is one big flip-flop?
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jmfcst
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« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2006, 01:15:20 AM »

The bible also advocated slavery... Not exactly a very christian institution if you ask me.

Question 1:  It is true that the Christian bible advocates slavery?
Answer from the Crowd:  Don't know how that can be, sir, for Jesus himself said in John 8, "Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed."

Question 2:  So, Jesus freed slaves?
Answer from the Crowd:  Absolutely, for it written, "When he ascended on high, he led captives in his train and gave gifts to men."

Question 3:  Was this "disputed" Christian named Paul an advocate of slavery?  
Answer from the Crowd: To the contrary sir, Paul wrote the following to a slave-owner named Philemon concerning a slave named Onesimus, "Although in Christ I could be bold and order you to do what you ought to do, yet I appeal to you on the basis of love. I then, as Paul—an old man and now also a prisoner of Christ Jesus— I appeal to you for my son Onesimus...Perhaps the reason he was separated from you for a little while was that you might have him back for good— no longer as a slave, but better than a slave, as a dear brother."

Question 4:  Why do these slanderers make up such false accusations?
Answer from the Crowd:  Because they know not Christ.
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Dr. Cynic
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« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2006, 01:24:18 AM »

So I'm a slanderer for quoting the bible? It says it in black and white. Look it up if you wish.

And, I've got another question for you jmfcst, Because I don't believe in it anymore, does that make me a bad person? I never called you a slanderer or a liar for questioning the theory of evolution.
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