S.D. governor halts execution of killer

[Inmate Trump]

How is it justice?

It isn't.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Good for the governor.

Death should be in God's hands, not ours.

If you're going to bring God into this (which I welcome) he commands Capital Punishment, so how do you get around that?

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Disappointed. This is clearly a case where the death penalty is warranted and should be administered without second thought. Reading what this guy did about made me half sick.

These are the kinds of cases where I want to personally go and administer the death penalty--why would you do that to another human.

So you wouldn't want to kill another human, but yet you'd like to kill another human.

Hmm.

I don't want to kill innocent humans, but scumbags like this, Absolutely

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

SIOUX FALLS, S.D. (AP) — Gov. Mike Rounds on Tuesday halted the execution of the state's first prison inmate in 59 years just hours before it was scheduled.

Grammar and sense went out the window here. Page is not "the state's first prison inmate in 59 years". Or, if he is, I'm catching a plane to that happy anarchist utopia, South Dakota, tomorrow.

Something also went wrong with those pictures, I think. Unless Page and Poage are the same person.

If Page wants to commit suicide, he has my full understanding and support. But he should not use government machinery for that.

no, pics are good.

maybe I'm alone in that, but I'm seeing the same picture twice, except once it says that's the victim and once it says that's the killer who wants to die.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

He's not the first prison inmate in 59 years. He'd be the first person to be executed by SD in 59 years (at least, I assume that's what is meant.) But that's not what it says.

HEHEHE...I screwed up--we'll fix that pic.

[jerusalemcar5]

Good for the governor.

Death should be in God's hands, not ours.

If you're going to bring God into this (which I welcome) he commands Capital Punishment, so how do you get around that?

According to the Bible he commands capital punishment for homosexuality, adultery, incest, beastiality, and polytheism. 

Are you seriously going to argue that all those people should be killed because G-d commanded it?

I think Clay's point is we shouldn't be interfering.  In this day and age we are better than killing people.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Good for the governor.

Death should be in God's hands, not ours.

If you're going to bring God into this (which I welcome) he commands Capital Punishment, so how do you get around that?

According to the Bible he commands capital punishment for homosexuality, adultery, incest, beastiality, and polytheism. 

Are you seriously going to argue that all those people should be killed because G-d commanded it?

I think Clay's point is we shouldn't be interfering.  In this day and age we are better than killing people.

You can't make a point using 1/2 of a principle and screw the other 1/2.


Exodus 21:23 referring to causing a woman to miscarriage:
23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.


21:12-14     EX 21:12 "Anyone who strikes a man and kills him shall surely be put to death. 13 However, if he does not do it intentionally, but God lets it happen, he is to flee to a place I will designate. 14 But if a man schemes and kills another man deliberately, take him away from my altar and put him to death.


    EX 21:15 "Anyone who attacks his father or his mother must be put to death.

    EX 21:16 "Anyone who kidnaps another and either sells him or still has him when he is caught must be put to death.

    EX 21:17 "Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.


    EX 22:18 "Do not allow a sorceress to live.

    EX 22:19 "Anyone who has sexual relations with an animal must be put to death.

    EX 22:20 "Whoever sacrifices to any god other than the LORD must be destroyed.

    LEV 24:13 Then the LORD said to Moses: 14 "Take the blasphemer outside the camp. All those who heard him are to lay their hands on his head, and the entire assembly is to stone him. 15 Say to the Israelites: `If anyone curses his God, he will be held responsible; 16 anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD must be put to death. The entire assembly must stone him. Whether an alien or native-born, when he blasphemes the Name, he must be put to death.

    LEV 24:17 " `If anyone takes the life of a human being, he must be put to death. 18 Anyone who takes the life of someone's animal must make restitution--life for life. 19 If anyone injures his neighbor, whatever he has done must be done to him: 20 fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth. As he has injured the other, so he is to be injured. 21 Whoever kills an animal must make restitution, but whoever kills a man must be put to death. 22 You are to have the same law for the alien and the native-born. I am the LORD your God.' "


    DT 19:16 If a malicious witness takes the stand to accuse a man of a crime, 17 the two men involved in the dispute must stand in the presence of the LORD before the priests and the judges who are in office at the time. 18 The judges must make a thorough investigation, and if the witness proves to be a liar, giving false testimony against his brother, 19 then do to him as he intended to do to his brother. You must purge the evil from among you. 20 The rest of the people will hear of this and be afraid, and never again will such an evil thing be done among you. 21 Show no pity: life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.

[Ebowed]

    EX 21:17 "Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.

    EX 22:18 "Do not allow a sorceress to live.

    EX 22:19 "Anyone who has sexual relations with an animal must be put to death.

    EX 22:20 "Whoever sacrifices to any god other than the LORD must be destroyed.

Do you seriously believe this sh**t?

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

    EX 21:17 "Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.

    EX 22:18 "Do not allow a sorceress to live.

    EX 22:19 "Anyone who has sexual relations with an animal must be put to death.

    EX 22:20 "Whoever sacrifices to any god other than the LORD must be destroyed.

Do you seriously believe this sh**t?

No--I believe those parts of the Levitical Law do not apply any more, but I believe Capital punishment does.  And by the way, sh**t is sh*t.

[Ebowed]

No--I believe those parts of the Levitical Law do not apply any more, but I believe Capital punishment does.  And by the way, sh**t is sh*t.

How do you determine which parts of Levitical Law are still relevant and which parts are not?  And even if they don't "apply" today, how can putting someone to death for cursing their parents be justified?

Typing "shit" without taking the necessary censorship avoidance precautions will display as "sh**t", even if "sh*t" makes more sense.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

No--I believe those parts of the Levitical Law do not apply any more, but I believe Capital punishment does.  And by the way, sh**t is sh*t.

How do you determine which parts of Levitical Law are still relevant and which parts are not?  And even if they don't "apply" today, how can putting someone to death for cursing their parents be justified?

Typing "shit" without taking the necessary censorship avoidance precautions will display as "sh**t", even if "sh*t" makes more sense.

Based on NT principals.  And why would it be displayed sh**t?

[Ebowed]

Based on NT principals.  And why would it be displayed sh**t?

Still, how can the OT law be justified?  It's like justifying slavery to me.  You get put to death for pretty much anything.

Not sure why it's displayed that way.  Dave Leip set up the censor, so you'd have to ask him.  Presumably it's somehow less offensive if an extra asterisk is added, though I don't see how.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Based on NT principals.  And why would it be displayed sh**t?

Still, how can the OT law be justified?  It's like justifying slavery to me.  You get put to death for pretty much anything.

Not sure why it's displayed that way.  Dave Leip set up the censor, so you'd have to ask him.  Presumably it's somehow less offensive if an extra asterisk is added, though I don't see how.

OT Law is justified by NT actions.  How is that anything like slavery?

[Ebowed]

OT Law is justified by NT actions.

The resurrection of Jesus justifies things like putting someone to death for cursing their parents?

How is that anything like slavery?

The OT Law commands us to kill sorceresses (Ex. 18:22, Lev. 20:27), put homosexuals to death (Lev. 20:13), put anyone who works on the Sabbath to death (Ex. 35:2, Num. 15:32-36), tells parents to stone to death a son who is stubborn and rebellious (Deut. 21:18-21), put non-virgin women who get married to death (Deut. 22:13-21), stone to death an engaged virgin if she is raped and does not cry for help (Deut. 22:23-24), among many other harsh, nonsensical and barbaric punishments.  God told Abraham to offer his 12 year old son as a human sacrifice, presumably as a test of faith (Gen. 22:2), and the son was only spared when Abraham showed God that he was entirely willing to go through with it.  God also accepts the burnt sacrifice of Jephthah's daughter (Judg. 11:30-39), and sends two bears to come out of a forest and maul forty-two children for teasing a prophet for being bald (2 Kin. 2:23-24).  Basically, it wouldn't be a lot of fun living under OT Law, unless you liked throwing stones at people daily, or reading about the latest God-sent murderous bears in the paper.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

OT Law is justified by NT actions.

The resurrection of Jesus justifies things like putting someone to death for cursing their parents?

No, like people sexually sinning being cast out of the church instead of stoned.  Come on--don't act all Biblically smart and then play dumb on me.

How is that anything like slavery?

The OT Law commands us to kill sorceresses (Ex. 18:22, Lev. 20:27), put homosexuals to death (Lev. 20:13), put anyone who works on the Sabbath to death (Ex. 35:2, Num. 15:32-36), tells parents to stone to death a son who is stubborn and rebellious (Deut. 21:18-21), put non-virgin women who get married to death (Deut. 22:13-21), stone to death an engaged virgin if she is raped and does not cry for help (Deut. 22:23-24), among many other harsh, nonsensical and barbaric punishments.  God told Abraham to offer his 12 year old son as a human sacrifice, presumably as a test of faith (Gen. 22:2), and the son was only spared when Abraham showed God that he was entirely willing to go through with it.  God also accepts the burnt sacrifice of Jephthah's daughter (Judg. 11:30-39), and sends two bears to come out of a forest and maul forty-two children for teasing a prophet for being bald (2 Kin. 2:23-24).  Basically, it wouldn't be a lot of fun living under OT Law, unless you liked throwing stones at people daily, or reading about the latest God-sent murderous bears in the paper.

OK, but all the sexual sins I just talked about above and what the heck does Isaac being sacrificed (almost) have to do with this?

[Ebowed]

No, like people sexually sinning being cast out of the church instead of stoned.  Come on--don't act all Biblically smart and then play dumb on me.

I am asking you how the NT Law justifies the OT Law, which says that we should stone zoophiles, homosexuals, and non-virgin newlywed females.  Not what the NT Law says now.

OK, but all the sexual sins I just talked about above and what the heck does Isaac being sacrificed (almost) have to do with this?

You asked me how the OT Law was comparable to slavery.  I gave you only a few examples.  Living in the company of a diety who supports putting raped women to death or who encourages human sacrifice is pretty high up there.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

No, like people sexually sinning being cast out of the church instead of stoned.  Come on--don't act all Biblically smart and then play dumb on me.

I am asking you how the NT Law justifies the OT Law, which says that we should stone zoophiles, homosexuals, and non-virgin newlywed females.  Not what the NT Law says now.

Justifies was the wrong word on my part--I meant...I can't think of the word, but...it eliminates it--it supercedes it--it replaced it.

OK, but all the sexual sins I just talked about above and what the heck does Isaac being sacrificed (almost) have to do with this?

You asked me how the OT Law was comparable to slavery.  I gave you only a few examples.  Living in the company of a diety who supports putting raped women to death or who encourages human sacrifice is pretty high up there.

Isaac wasn't sacrificed.  And a raped woman who does nothing about it would be a woman having consensual sex.

[Ebowed]

Justifies was the wrong word on my part--I meant...I can't think of the word, but...it eliminates it--it supercedes it--it replaced it.

OK, so I'm asking you how there is any justification for the undue cruelty and harshness of OT Law.

Isaac wasn't sacrificed.  And a raped woman who does nothing about it would be a woman having consensual sex.

Isaac was not sacrificed, correct, but God told Abraham to do it as a test of faith.  What kind of sick freak gets kicks out of telling someone to burn his son to death as a sacrifice?  And I also gave you an example of a man sacrificing his child in a burnt offering and God accepting it.

Regarding the woman who gets raped.  The verse says she should be stoned to death for not crying for help while in a town.  This is not applied to anyone except an engaged virgin, but we'll ignore the vast unfairness of that for now and focus on the fact that if she screams for help the rapist is more likely to hurt or kill her.  Little does she know that she's going to get killed for being a victim of rape anyway.  It's not a matter of not wanting to do anything about it.  The woman doesn't just say, "Sure, I'm an engaged virgin, and if my hymen is not intact when I get married I'll be stoned to death, but I'd love to have sex with you"; it's rape, and she gets stoned to death for it.  Even if it were consensual, why should someone be stoned to death for consensual sex?

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Justifies was the wrong word on my part--I meant...I can't think of the word, but...it eliminates it--it supercedes it--it replaced it.

OK, so I'm asking you how there is any justification for the undue cruelty and harshness of OT Law.

Justify isn't what I meant.  Buy anything God does is justified.

Isaac wasn't sacrificed.  And a raped woman who does nothing about it would be a woman having consensual sex.

Isaac was not sacrificed, correct, but God told Abraham to do it as a test of faith.  What kind of sick freak gets kicks out of telling someone to burn his son to death as a sacrifice?  And I also gave you an example of a man sacrificing his child in a burnt offering and God accepting it.

Regarding the woman who gets raped.  The verse says she should be stoned to death for not crying for help while in a town.  This is not applied to anyone except an engaged virgin, but we'll ignore the vast unfairness of that for now and focus on the fact that if she screams for help the rapist is more likely to hurt or kill her.  Little does she know that she's going to get killed for being a victim of rape anyway.  It's not a matter of not wanting to do anything about it.  The woman doesn't just say, "Sure, I'm an engaged virgin, and if my hymen is not intact when I get married I'll be stoned to death, but I'd love to have sex with you"; it's rape, and she gets stoned to death for it.  Even if it were consensual, why should someone be stoned to death for consensual sex?

The italicized part--he did it as a test of his faith, not for a comedy show.

Bold part--Jews were well versed in Levitical law--she knew what'd happen.  And consensual sex is wrong if she's engaged to someone else.

[Ebowed]

Buy anything God does is justified.

Was God justified in promising what he did in Hosea 9:10-16?

"When I found Israel, it was like finding grapes in the desert; when I saw your fathers, it was like seeing the early fruit on the fig tree.  But when they came to Baal Peor, they consecrated themselves to that shameful idol and became as vile as the thing they loved.  Ephraim's glory will fly away like a bird—no birth, no pregnancy, no conception.  Even if they rear children, I will bereave them of every one.  Woe to them when I turn away from them!  I have seen Ephraim, like Tyre, planted in a pleasant place.  But Ephraim will bring out their children to the slayer."  Give them, O LORD—what will you give them?  Give them wombs that miscarry and breasts that are dry.  "Because of all their wickedness in Gilgal, I hated them there.  Because of their sinful deeds, I will drive them out of my house.  I will no longer love them; all their leaders are rebellious.  Ephraim is blighted, their root is withered, they yield no fruit.  Even if they bear children, I will slay their cherished offspring."

Or Hosea 13?

"The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God.  They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open."

he did it as a test of his faith, not for a comedy show.

So what kind of guy tells people to sacrifice their kids and then says they were only joking?  Show's off, Abraham, you don't really have to burn your kid!  That's considered a form of psychological abuse.  Put your feet in Abraham's shoes.  How would you feel about yourself knowing that you would have killed your son in a sacrifice?

Bold part--Jews were well versed in Levitical law--she knew what'd happen.  And consensual sex is wrong if she's engaged to someone else.

Yeah, you were pretty much screwed if you were a woman living in OT times.  Of course, the intact hymen is not exactly an accurate indicator of virginity, so many innocent women would have been stoned to death.  And of course, the whole thing is inherently sexist since there's no physical (mis)indicator of a male's virginity.

The "consensual" sex might have been immoral.  But worthy of death?

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Buy anything God does is justified.

Was God justified in promising what he did in Hosea 9:10-16?

"When I found Israel, it was like finding grapes in the desert; when I saw your fathers, it was like seeing the early fruit on the fig tree.  But when they came to Baal Peor, they consecrated themselves to that shameful idol and became as vile as the thing they loved.  Ephraim's glory will fly away like a bird—no birth, no pregnancy, no conception.  Even if they rear children, I will bereave them of every one.  Woe to them when I turn away from them!  I have seen Ephraim, like Tyre, planted in a pleasant place.  But Ephraim will bring out their children to the slayer."  Give them, O LORD—what will you give them?  Give them wombs that miscarry and breasts that are dry.  "Because of all their wickedness in Gilgal, I hated them there.  Because of their sinful deeds, I will drive them out of my house.  I will no longer love them; all their leaders are rebellious.  Ephraim is blighted, their root is withered, they yield no fruit.  Even if they bear children, I will slay their cherished offspring."

Or Hosea 13?

"The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God.  They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open."

Because they were a sinful nation

he did it as a test of his faith, not for a comedy show.

So what kind of guy tells people to sacrifice their kids and then says they were only joking?  Show's off, Abraham, you don't really have to burn your kid!  That's considered a form of psychological abuse.  Put your feet in Abraham's shoes.  How would you feel about yourself knowing that you would have killed your son in a sacrifice?

To call it joking is blasphemous and false--it was a test of faith and Abraham passed the test--he had faith--and will be rewareded in heaven for that.

Bold part--Jews were well versed in Levitical law--she knew what'd happen.  And consensual sex is wrong if she's engaged to someone else.

Yeah, you were pretty much screwed if you were a woman living in OT times.  Of course, the intact hymen is not exactly an accurate indicator of virginity, so many innocent women would have been stoned to death.  And of course, the whole thing is inherently sexist since there's no physical (mis)indicator of a male's virginity.

The "consensual" sex might have been immoral.  But worthy of death?

Who said anything about inspecting hymens?  That was a Puritan thing.

[Ebowed]

Because they were a sinful nation

So it's not okay for a woman to get an abortion if she's raped, but if God deems a nation sinful, there's no problem with ripping up a pregnant woman and killing an innocent fetus?

To call it joking is blasphemous and false--it was a test of faith and Abraham passed the test--he had faith--and will be rewareded in heaven for that.

Quibble over semantics if you wish.  The point is God did accept and by extension encourage human sacrifices, even if Abraham's sacrifice of Isaac didn't go through.

Who said anything about inspecting hymens?  That was a Puritan thing.

How else were they going to inspect whether the woman was a virgin or not (and thus eligible for a good old fashioned stoning)?