popular vote and George Washington-James Monroe!

[TommyC1776]

What was the popular vote of the elections between 1789 and 1820?

[Lincoln Republican]

1789
Federalist Electors 35,886
Anti-Federalist Electors 2,952

1800
Jefferson 41,330
Adams 25,552

1804
Jefferson 104,110
Pinckney 38,919

1808
Madison 124,732
Pinckney 62,431
Monroe 4,848
Unpledged Electors 680

1812
Madison 140,431
Clinton 132,781
King 5,574

1816
Monroe 76,592
King 34,740
Unpledged Electors 1,038

1820
Monroe 87,343
Adams -
Federalist Electors 17,465
Clinton 1,893
Unpledged Electors 1,658

[minionofmidas]

Who counted these?

I've always been told that 1824 was the first election when anyone bothered to count. Of course, 1828 is the first election for which such figures can be meaningful, for until then, more than half the states had no popular vote for electors.

[TommyC1776]

1789
Federalist Electors 35,886
Anti-Federalist Electors 2,952

1800
Jefferson 41,330
Adams 25,552

1804
Jefferson 104,110
Pinckney 38,919

1808
Madison 124,732
Pinckney 62,431
Monroe 4,848
Unpledged Electors 680

1812
Madison 140,431
Clinton 132,781
King 5,574

1816
Monroe 76,592
King 34,740
Unpledged Electors 1,038

1820
Monroe 87,343
Adams -
Federalist Electors 17,465
Clinton 1,893
Unpledged Electors 1,658

Thanks.  Will Dave eventually post these numbers?

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Who counted these?

I've always been told that 1824 was the first election when anyone bothered to count. Of course, 1828 is the first election for which such figures can be meaningful, for until then, more than half the states had no popular vote for electors.

You can find the totals on Wikipedia, with references to the sources, but these are sort of after the fact totals based on taking the popular votes for the electors and assigning them on the basis of who the electors then voted for.  Given the wide respect for John Adams in 1789 and the fact that he had been out of the country for a number of years, attributing votes for him as "Federalist" votes is a bit of a stretch.

[jimrtex]

Who counted these?

I've always been told that 1824 was the first election when anyone bothered to count. Of course, 1828 is the first election for which such figures can be meaningful, for until then, more than half the states had no popular vote for electors.

This is not true (well perhaps the part about what you have always been told is true).

In 1789, electors were popularly elected in DE, MD, MA*, NH*, PA, and VA; and chosen by the legislature in CT, GA, NJ, and SC.

*In MA, the voters in each of 8 districts nominated two elector candidates, from which the legislature chose one.  The legislature also chose 2 electors at large.  *In NH, no candidate having achieved a majority, the legislature chose the electors.

The legislature in NY failed to choose its electors; and NC and RI had not ratified the Constitution yet.

For the early elections it is difficult/impossible to attribute the electors to Presidential candidates, since at first electors were chosen simply to be electors, rather than electors pledged to a particular candidate.

In addition, there was a research effort that attempted to determine the popular votes for electors back to 1824.  This forms the basis for Congressional Quartery's books on presidential elections, and which in turn is used as a source for the World Almanac.  IOW, the 1824 as the first popular election comes from using a common source.  And remember that 1824 was closer to a series of party presidential primaries than an inter-party contest.

[minionofmidas]

In 1789, electors were popularly elected in DE, MD, MA*, NH*, PA, and VA; and chosen by the legislature in CT, GA, NJ, and SC.

So, only CT and NJ (well, and NH and MA really, since what you describe I would not call "chosen by popular vote") switched to popular vote from 1789 to 1824, while DE switched away from popular vote? Interesting. (in 1824, there was no popular vote in VT, NY, DE, SC, GA or LA. 4 years later, only DE and SC had no popular vote. By 1832 (and right until 1860) SC was the only state without a popular vote.)

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I knew that. Why did New York choose no Electors, though?

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Ah, that explains that. When was that research effort?

Also, what about 1792 and 1796?

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

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I knew that. Why did New York choose no Electors, though?

According to Wikipedia, their legislature deadlocked and couldn't agree on who the electors should be.

[TommyC1776]

What were the state totals for the elections, 1780-1820?

[jimrtex]

In 1789, electors were popularly elected in DE, MD, MA*, NH*, PA, and VA; and chosen by the legislature in CT, GA, NJ, and SC.

So, only CT and NJ (well, and NH and MA really, since what you describe I would not call "chosen by popular vote") switched to popular vote from 1789 to 1824, while DE switched away from popular vote? Interesting.

No.

NH
1789 popular vote at large, majority needed, legislature chose all 6.
1792 popular vote at large, majority needed, popular runof.
1796 popular vote at large, majority needed, legislature chose 1 of 6.
1800 legislature.
1804-1832 at large popular.

MA (includes ME until 1820)
1789 popular vote by 8 district nominated 2, from which legislature picked + 2 chosen by legislature for state.
1792 popular vote from multi-member district (5,5,3, and 3).  Majority required, otherwise legislature chose.  A total of 5 were elected by voters, 11 by legislature.
1796 popular vote by 14 districts, with legislatute choosing in case no one had majority.  8 elected by voters, 6 by legislature.  Legislature also chose 2 others.
1800 legislature
1804 popular vote at large.
1808 legislature.
1812 popular vote by multi-member district (5-6-4-3-3-1)
1816 legislature
1820-1832 at large.

ME
1820-1828 popular vote, 7 from district, 2 statewide.
1832 popular vote statewide.

RI
1792-1796 legislature
1800-1832 popular vote at large.

CT
1789-1816 legislature.
1820-1832 popular vote at large.

NY
1789 legislature, but could not agree on electors.
1792-1824 legioslature.
1828 popular vote.  34 chosen by congressional district (including 3 multi-member seats (3-2-2).  These 34 chose the final 2 electors.
1832 popular vote at large.

NJ
1789-1800 legislature
1804-1808 popular vote at large.
1812 legislature
1816-1832 popular vote at large

DE
1789 popular vote by district/county
1792-1828 legislature
1832 popular vote at large

MD
1789-1792 popular vote at large
1796-1828 popular vote by electoral district.  From 1804-1828, two districts elected two each.
1832 popular vote by multi-member district (4-3-2-1)

VA (included Kentucky in 1789)
1789-1796 popular vote by electoral district.
1800-1832 popular vote at large.

NC
1792 legislature
1796-1808 popular vote by electoral district.
1812 legislature
1816-1828 popular vote at large.

SC
1789-1832 (and continuing until 1860) legislature.

GA
1789-1792 legislature
1796 popular vote statewide
1800-1824 legislature
1828-1832 popular vote statewide

VT
1792-1824 legislature
1828-1832 popular vote statewide

KY
1792 popular vote, 2 each from 2 districts.
1796-1800 popular vote by electoral district.
1804-1824 popular vote by multi-member district (4-4), (4-4-4), (5-5-4)
1828-1832 popular vote statewide

TN
1796 legislature
1800 legislature appointed 3 persons in each county.  These individuals chose 5 electors by district.
1804-1828 popular vote by electoral district
1832 popular vote statewide

OH
1804-1832 popular vote statewide

LA
1812-1824 legislature
1828-1832 popular vote statewide

IN
1816-1820 legislature
1824-1828 popular vote statewide

IL
1820-1824 popular vote by district
1828-1832 popular vote statewide.

AL
1820 legislature
1824-1832 popular vote at large

MS
1820-1832 popular vote at large

MO
1820 legislature (when Congress counted votes, tally with an without Missouri announced, leaving unresolved whether they were legal votes).
1824 popular vote by district
1828-1832 popular vote at large.

From 1836 forward, all electors have been chosen by statewide popular vote with the following exceptions:

SC 1836-1860 legislature
MA 1848 no candidate had majority, legislature chose electors (presumably was law in other elections, but did not come into effect),
FL 1868 legislature
CO 1876 legislature
MI 1892 popular vote by district.
ME 1972-present popular vote by district and 2 statewide
NE 19??-present popular vote by district and 2 statewide.

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Ah, that explains that. When was that research effort?
[/quote]
It began in 1962.  I'm not sure when it finished, probably late 1860s.

ISPSR click on XIV.A.3.a US election returns

The most likely had a date of 1984, but this might be when the results were converted to a machine readable form.

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What about them?  I think a majority of electors was popularly chosen at every election except one (1800 I think).

[minionofmidas]

From 1836 forward, all electors have been chosen by statewide popular vote with the following exceptions:

MA 1848 no candidate had majority, legislature chose electors (presumably was law in other elections, but did not come into effect),

Last time before that no one had a majority in MA was 1832, so that's quite possible. I take it the law was repealed by 1852.

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What about them?  I think a majority of electors was popularly chosen at every election except one (1800 I think).
[/quote]They're missing from Winfield's list of election results.

[jimrtex]

From 1836 forward, all electors have been chosen by statewide popular vote with the following exceptions:

MA 1848 no candidate had majority, legislature chose electors (presumably was law in other elections, but did not come into effect),

Last time before that no one had a majority in MA was 1832, so that's quite possible. I take it the law was repealed by 1852.

1832 is questionable.  I can find 7,000 votes cast for "Other: unknown" in Congressional Quarterly which is based on the ICPR study.  This is 10% of the total vote.

But my other source does not include them, which gives Clay 52.7%.

Both sources note the 1848 legislature decision; neither note anything about 1852.

A curiousity of early congressional elections in several New England states is that they required a majority, but did not provide for a runoff.  They simply kept having new elections called trials until someone received a majority.  These gradually disappeared.

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What about them?  I think a majority of electors was popularly chosen at every election except one (1800 I think).
[/quote]They're missing from Winfield's list of election results.
[/quote]
In 1792, any contest would be based on those who supported Clinton vs. Adams for Vice President.

In 1796, there I have 3 states with votes attributed to Adams or Jefferson supporters (GA, MD, and PA).  Two where the contests appear to be strongly personal (MA and NH) - it is quite possible that the losing candidates might have supported Adams as well.  And 3 states where the election returns are apparently lost (VA, NC, and KY).  These were probably very strongly for Jefferson as well.  In all 3 of these states, electors were chosen by districts, so there also may not have been a very strong sense of slates.

Note that most states that elected electors by district did so by electoral district, and not congressional district.  The current system used in Maine and Nebraska was used, but was fairly uncommon.  If you are voting for an individual in your district to be an elector, there might not be a sense if any of voting for a presidential candidate, but perhaps only voting for a local faction.

[Lincoln Republican]

Sorry, neglected to mention the numbers are from Wikipedia.