Democracy in Pennsylvania

[°Leprechaun]

The main purpose of this thread is for information and discussion
but to make it more interesting I decided to add a poll, also
====================
I.>>
You can write in a name...

How to write in:
http://www.seventy.org/electioninfo/writein/index.html

II.>>
Or work with the ballot access coalition

ballot access coalition in PA
http://www.paballotaccess.org/

not just Greens and Libertarians
members:
http://www.paballotaccess.org/about.html

About the Voters' Choice Act:

printable brochure:
http://www.paballotaccess.org/VCA_Trifold.pdf

pdf long:
http://www.paballotaccess.org/Voters%20Choice%20Act%20White%20Paper.pdf

Legislators supporting the Voters' Choice Act:
http://www.paballotaccess.org/on_board.html

[bullmoose88]

PA's ballot laws suck...

...leaves very little choice in a race with 2 bad candidates (US Senate)

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

PA's ballot laws suck...

...leaves very little choice in a race with 2 bad candidates (US Senate)

The Pennsylvania Green party specifically went and got help from Santorum, so they're basicially Republicans anyways.

[bullmoose88]

PA's ballot laws suck...

...leaves very little choice in a race with 2 bad candidates (US Senate)

The Pennsylvania Green party specifically went and got help from Santorum, so they're basicially Republicans anyways.

If you only mean in a limited sense that they're both trying to gain votes at the democrats expense.

[NewFederalist]

PA's ballot laws suck...

...leaves very little choice in a race with 2 bad candidates (US Senate)

... and Governor/Lieutenant Governor (especially Lt. Governor!)

[Sam Spade]

If you think ballot access laws are bad in PA, Texas's would make you think again.

[NewFederalist]

If you think ballot access laws are bad in PA, Texas's would make you think again.

Ah... I don't think so! Look at how many statewide ballot choices you have. In PA we have Dems and Reps. That's it. Not that the Greens, Libertarians, Constitutionalists and even an independent didn't try. The signature requirement was just too difficult. (I lived in Texas from 1979 until 1986 and was politically active so unless the laws have changed a great deal since then I am familiar with the Texas election code.)

[Sam Spade]

If you think ballot access laws are bad in PA, Texas's would make you think again.

Ah... I don't think so! Look at how many statewide ballot choices you have. In PA we have Dems and Reps. That's it. Not that the Greens, Libertarians, Constitutionalists and even an independent didn't try. The signature requirement was just too difficult. (I lived in Texas from 1979 until 1986 and was politically active so unless the laws have changed a great deal since then I am familiar with the Texas election code.)

Well, in Texas you can add the Libertarians, but there are no other parties either other than Dems and Reps (and in many places only one of the two).  The Libertarians are only around in Texas because they have a really good party structure to get on the ballot.  The Greens didn't get anywhere this time around because they don't have the structure.

The Governor's election this year is the real oddity compared to normal.

[Keystone Phil]

PA's ballot laws suck...

...leaves very little choice in a race with 2 bad candidates (US Senate)

... and Governor/Lieutenant Governor (especially Lt. Governor!)

We don't vote on Lt. Governor seperately anyway so it doesn't matter but I get what you're saying. CBK for Governor! 

[NewFederalist]

If you think ballot access laws are bad in PA, Texas's would make you think again.

Ah... I don't think so! Look at how many statewide ballot choices you have. In PA we have Dems and Reps. That's it. Not that the Greens, Libertarians, Constitutionalists and even an independent didn't try. The signature requirement was just too difficult. (I lived in Texas from 1979 until 1986 and was politically active so unless the laws have changed a great deal since then I am familiar with the Texas election code.)

Well, in Texas you can add the Libertarians, but there are no other parties either other than Dems and Reps (and in many places only one of the two).  The Libertarians are only around in Texas because they have a really good party structure to get on the ballot.  The Greens didn't get anywhere this time around because they don't have the structure.

The Governor's election this year is the real oddity compared to normal.

What I wouldn't give to have a Libertarian alternative...

[minionofmidas]

If you think ballot access laws are bad in PA, Texas's would make you think again.

Ah... I don't think so! Look at how many statewide ballot choices you have. In PA we have Dems and Reps. That's it. Not that the Greens, Libertarians, Constitutionalists and even an independent didn't try. The signature requirement was just too difficult. (I lived in Texas from 1979 until 1986 and was politically active so unless the laws have changed a great deal since then I am familiar with the Texas election code.)

Well, in Texas you can add the Libertarians, but there are no other parties either other than Dems and Reps (and in many places only one of the two).  The Libertarians are only around in Texas because they have a really good party structure to get on the ballot.  The Greens didn't get anywhere this time around because they don't have the structure.

The Governor's election this year is the real oddity compared to normal.

What I wouldn't give to have a Libertarian alternative...

The thing with Texas is the incredibly early primary. That`s really really weird.

[bullmoose88]

I like Rendell..and I like Matthews..give me independent office voting!

[J. J.]

PA's ballot laws suck...

...leaves very little choice in a race with 2 bad candidates (US Senate)

The Pennsylvania Green party specifically went and got help from Santorum, so they're basicially Republicans anyways.

That will go into the comedy goldmine.

[Colin]

Yeah I already know they are horrible. Two horrible choices for Senate and the only other options is a Green that was helped onto the ballot by the Republicans. We definitely need a change in PA.

[°Leprechaun]

er um uh
I am a little confused here.
It's ok for liberal Republicans to vote for Casey, but it is not
ok for Republicans to help a Green candidate?
Sounds like a double standard to me.
Ok, I guess I'm just stupid. I'll admit it I'm stupid, just very stupid.
duh doh

[adam]

I really don't see the GreenOP as anything more than a political tool of the right. Where does most of their support come from? Republicans. Where do they get most of their money from? The GOP. I believe in their right to accept help from whomever they please, so I have a different solution to the "Green Scare".

I think the Democrats should fight fire with fire, lets start giving money and support to the consitution party. The hypocrits over at the GOP tried knocking the Oregon Consitution Party's candidate for governor off the ballot while arguing for the GreenOPs "right to exist and compete". The Green Party is almost dead, but the CP is just getting. It's time we outfoxed the Republicans. Let's use the tools we have available.

[°Leprechaun]

I really don't see the GreenOP as anything more than a political tool of the right. Where does most of their support come from? Republicans. Where do they get most of their money from? The GOP. I believe in their right to accept help from whomever they please, so I have a different solution to the "Green Scare".

I think the Democrats should fight fire with fire, lets start giving money and support to the consitution party. The hypocrits over at the GOP tried knocking the Oregon Consitution Party's candidate for governor off the ballot while arguing for the GreenOPs "right to exist and compete". The Green Party is almost dead, but the CP is just getting. It's time we outfoxed the Republicans. Let's use the tools we have available.

I totally agree.
At last, somebody who 'get's it'.
The bottom line is, do third parties, as a whole help the Republicans more or Democrats more? Although I could argue that the 'spoiler conundrum' is a faux conundrum, if we look at history, it is hard to argue that third parties have helped Republicans more than Democrats, 1916 being the primary example.

Ironically, anti-Nader (Nader isn't technically Green btw), have focused their attention exclusively on 2000. I understand the frustration, but until we invent a time machine there isn't much we can do about it.
But I say 'ironically' because Lieberman, remember him? , was on the ticket that year and not all anti-Naders like Lieberman, do they now?

The Greens are working with others (including the Constitution Party):

http://www.paballotaccess.org/about.html

Let's not forget however,
Ballot access is not the be all and end all. If reform fails, write ins are still possible (are there any states where they are not allowed, btw)?

[°Leprechaun]

And don't forget, there are at least a few legislators supporting this proposal.

[°Leprechaun]

How many of you would probably stay home (pretend you are 18+ and living in the USA) if you couldn't in good conscience vote for a Democrat or Republican.... rather than writing in or voting for an alternative party candidate?
I think not voting is acceptable in such a case, but I will write in if PA doesn't allow Romanelli on the ballot. I don't necessarily consider it
a 'wasted vote'.