Highways Bill

[Dr. Cynic]

I don't see that we're so wealthy, when a majority of our cities are financially distressed. I don't think it's good to be poor in any reigon. I cannot speak for the southeast, that's Senator Hawk's territory. When this bill comes up, I will vote Nay... I have provided my reasons, and no one has provided me with a convincing arguement otherwise. I encourage my fellow Senators to do the same. If a better plan comes up, I will vote for it, but until that time, I will not be supporting a plan to cut funds from the already distressed local governments.

[Democratic Hawk]

The way I see it, if highways remains under the auspices of federal government we can endeavour to retain a commitment to universally improving standards. Left to the regions, such universality might diminish with standards varying region to region. Highways might be a priority for some regions but not necessarily others

So, if the voters of one region want to fund highways less, why shouldn't they be able to do so? In this system it's the same thing, the federal money is distributed on what the regional needs supposedly are. If a region thinks highwyas aren't very important they aren't going to recieve funding without asking for it. In the end, it just leaves us with expensive, inneficient roads.

When it comes to highways, universal standards matter to me . I'm hesitant to support any legislation that might result in significant differentials from region to region to the point that in one region all might improve with the roads to another where all might continue to deteriorate further

And following on from your previous response:

I don't remember ever propising to this chamber slashing and burning "everything", like defense, for instance.

Defense? I should jolly well hope not . Though I do recall you highlighting the defense budget for cutbacks back in those halcyon days of our campaign for the then District 4 Senate seat. Still, I'm not surprised since such a proposal would, mercifully, have gained little to no traction

As a staunch believer in Atlasian Exceptionalism , I'm always going to oppose anything that I remotely consider taking us down the path of the 'Somalisation' of Atlasia

You've never made any secret of your disdain for government, federal especially

'Hawk'

[Bono]

I don't see that we're so wealthy, when a majority of our cities are financially distressed.

Who the hell is talking about local governments? 'm talking about regional governments, and you still haven't provided me with any convincing reason why replacing a federal gas tax by a regional gas tax would result in the decreasing of revenue. As for financial problems in the cities, try perpetual control by incompetent token extreme leftists and special interest groups for a reason.

[Bono]

The way I see it, if highways remains under the auspices of federal government we can endeavour to retain a commitment to universally improving standards. Left to the regions, such universality might diminish with standards varying region to region. Highways might be a priority for some regions but not necessarily others

So, if the voters of one region want to fund highways less, why shouldn't they be able to do so? In this system it's the same thing, the federal money is distributed on what the regional needs supposedly are. If a region thinks highwyas aren't very important they aren't going to recieve funding without asking for it. In the end, it just leaves us with expensive, inneficient roads.

When it comes to highways, universal standards matter to me . I'm hesitant to support any legislation that might result in significant differentials from region to region to the point that in one region all might improve with the roads to another where all might continue to deteriorate further

I don't see what the problem is, you are just denying the people of one region the right to have their roads as they want. But that is neither here nor there, if you want standards, you can just legislate them, that doesn't mean you have to fund them federally.

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Defense? I should jolly well hope not . Though I do recall you highlighting the defense budget for cutbacks back in those halcyon days of our campaign for the then District 4 Senate seat. Still, I'm not surprised since such a proposal would, mercifully, have gained little to no traction

As a staunch believer in Atlasian Exceptionalism , I'm always going to oppose anything that I remotely consider taking us down the path of the 'Somalisation' of Atlasia

You've never made any secret of your disdain for government, federal especially[/quote]
Yes, I stand by my statement that there is a lot of pork to cut in the defense department, and that lot's of it could take cuts and you wouldn't notice a difference, excet maybe, in the level of whining of special interests. However, that's different from slashing and burning.

'Hawk'
[/quote]

[Dr. Cynic]

I don't see that we're so wealthy, when a majority of our cities are financially distressed.

Who the hell is talking about local governments? 'm talking about regional governments, and you still haven't provided me with any convincing reason why replacing a federal gas tax by a regional gas tax would result in the decreasing of revenue. As for financial problems in the cities, try perpetual control by incompetent token extreme leftists and special interest groups for a reason.

Once again, the communication has broken down... What difference would it make to have the federal government front the money? The Senators in favor may vote so, but in my reigon, where most highways are federally funded, I don't feel that this bill would benefit my district, so I will vote Nay.

[Bono]

I don't see that we're so wealthy, when a majority of our cities are financially distressed.

Who the hell is talking about local governments? 'm talking about regional governments, and you still haven't provided me with any convincing reason why replacing a federal gas tax by a regional gas tax would result in the decreasing of revenue. As for financial problems in the cities, try perpetual control by incompetent token extreme leftists and special interest groups for a reason.

Once again, the communication has broken down... What difference would it make to have the federal government front the money?

I wrote a post back there with the difference it makes.

[Democratic Hawk]

I don't see what the problem is, you are just denying the people of one region the right to have their roads as they want. But that is neither here nor there, if you want standards, you can just legislate them, that doesn't mean you have to fund them federally.

Are you seriously suggesting that if the people of a particular region don't want their regional governments to spend a dime on constructing or maintaining highways in that region, then so be it?

Nevertheless, if this Bill does come to anything, which given the sentiments expressed thus far by my esteemed colleagues I very much doubt, too right I'll be legislating standards

'Hawk'

[Bono]

I don't see what the problem is, you are just denying the people of one region the right to have their roads as they want. But that is neither here nor there, if you want standards, you can just legislate them, that doesn't mean you have to fund them federally.

Are you seriously suggesting that if the people of a particular region don't want their regional governments to spend a dime on constructing or maintaining highways in that region, then so be it?

Nevertheless, if this Bill does come to anything, which given the sentiments expressed thus far by my esteemed colleagues I very much doubt, too right I'll be legislating standards

'Hawk'

Why would that happen?
And yes, this does matter, because it shows that most scnarios devised to refute stuff like this are inplausibly farfetched and ridiculous. No people would do that, they are just a cartoon created to make a dumb point. I hate that.

[Democratic Hawk]

I don't see what the problem is, you are just denying the people of one region the right to have their roads as they want. But that is neither here nor there, if you want standards, you can just legislate them, that doesn't mean you have to fund them federally.

Are you seriously suggesting that if the people of a particular region don't want their regional governments to spend a dime on constructing or maintaining highways in that region, then so be it?

Nevertheless, if this Bill does come to anything, which given the sentiments expressed thus far by my esteemed colleagues I very much doubt, too right I'll be legislating standards

'Hawk'

Why would that happen?
And yes, this does matter, because it shows that most scnarios devised to refute stuff like this are inplausibly farfetched and ridiculous. No people would do that, they are just a cartoon created to make a dumb point. I hate that.

Yes, it is far-fetched, a nightmare scenario, in fact, the worst possible scenario, in fact! Even I don't think it would ever even remotely transpire. Still, we agree on that if nothing else

Nevertheless, my concerns that highways might be prioritised by some regions but not others, stand. However, once its devolved to the regions, which I hope it isn't; on reflection, I don't think federal government should set standards but as a Southeast citizen, I'd be doing my level best to ensure that the region does. Given regional variations in financial strength, you are likely to see huge disparities between them

Highways should remain federally funded, with a national programme of improving our road infrastructure

'Hawk'

[WMS]

Would the Regional Governors please give their opinions?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Can I just point out that the Regional government (no, it's worse than that. Regional politics, period) in the Mideast has effectively collapsed?

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Since you asked for input.  As it is now, Federal highway funding pays for new construction only.  Maintenence of existing highways is left purely to the States (and in the case of Atlasia, the Regions).  The Southeast Region has in place a fairly detailed piece of highway legislation.  I can't say the same for the other Regions, but aside from the fact that new highway construction might be slowed until Regional legislation to pick up where the Feds left things, it won;t have a large impact, except maybe for those States that issued bonds to speed up consyrcution that were backed by future Federal highway funds.

[Democratic Hawk]

Can I just point out that the Regional government (no, it's worse than that. Regional politics, period) in the Mideast has effectively collapsed?

I've got to admit that that had crossed my mind too; however, in my objections to this Bill, I decided not to raise it because I had no wish to be disparaging towards the regions but the fact remains, in some regions, government is not operating as effectively as it ought to be

If things don't improve I can see more federalism on the agenda, not less, and I'd hate to see that happen. Things are just fine as they are, as long as its working

'Hawk'

[Dr. Cynic]

Can I just point out that the Regional government (no, it's worse than that. Regional politics, period) in the Mideast has effectively collapsed?

I've got to admit that that had crossed my mind too; however, in my objections to this Bill, I decided not to raise it because I had no wish to be disparaging towards the regions but the fact remains, in some regions, government is not operating as effectively as it ought to be

If things don't improve I can see more federalism on the agenda, not less, and I'd hate to see that happen. Things are just fine as they are, as long as its working

'Hawk'

Well, y'know Senator Hawk, they say if it ain't broke, don't fix it...

[Bono]

Can I just point out that the Regional government (no, it's worse than that. Regional politics, period) in the Mideast has effectively collapsed?

I've got to admit that that had crossed my mind too; however, in my objections to this Bill, I decided not to raise it because I had no wish to be disparaging towards the regions but the fact remains, in some regions, government is not operating as effectively as it ought to be

If things don't improve I can see more federalism on the agenda, not less, and I'd hate to see that happen. Things are just fine as they are, as long as its working

'Hawk'

Well, y'know Senator Hawk, they say if it ain't broke, don't fix it...

Except  IT IS BROKE. I made a post two pages before about the problems it has. I have pointed this out multiple times, and you still insist on ignoring it.  I can only conclude that your only objective is to further a left wing hack agenda without any regards for the facts.

[Dr. Cynic]

I'm honestly convinced Mr. Bono, that your agenda is to only cut funding for everything. As Al has stated, the mideast is completely imploded... I'm not going to vote against funding. I see your theory as incorrect in my opinion, and there is nothing you could say to induce me to vote against internal improvements.

[MasterJedi]

As Al has stated, the mideast is completely imploded...

And as he didn't say he helped cause it by leaving office during that time. -_-

[Reaganfan]

I do not support this bill, why make our highway system worse?

[Democratic Hawk]

Can I just point out that the Regional government (no, it's worse than that. Regional politics, period) in the Mideast has effectively collapsed?

I've got to admit that that had crossed my mind too; however, in my objections to this Bill, I decided not to raise it because I had no wish to be disparaging towards the regions but the fact remains, in some regions, government is not operating as effectively as it ought to be

If things don't improve I can see more federalism on the agenda, not less, and I'd hate to see that happen. Things are just fine as they are, as long as its working

'Hawk'

Well, y'know Senator Hawk, they say if it ain't broke, don't fix it...

Except  IT IS BROKE. I made a post two pages before about the problems it has. I have pointed this out multiple times, and you still insist on ignoring it.  I can only conclude that your only objective is to further a left wing hack agenda without any regards for the facts.

I was actually referring to the fact that throughout much of Atlasia, regional government has, more or less, stalled. And I, for one, will not consider any devolution of highway construction, nor anything else, to the regions until such time as the situation improves - and this in addition to any other concerns I've raised

Nevertheless, I thank Governors Ernest and Naso for their input

'Hawk'

[Bono]

I'm honestly convinced Mr. Bono, that your agenda is to only cut funding for everything.

Baseless, as I've clearly not proposed such things, and in fact during my past senate tenures have voted for funding increases in certain areas.

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Well, if you'd get your way, so would be the federal government.

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Then back it up. You are just being boneheaded. I've presented you claims and backed them up. You present only denial. You are the personification of everything that is wrong with this senate--you are conservative in the worst possible sense of the word: you are a complete reactionary who is scared shitless of any sort of change that can alter your beloved status quo, and can only propose the same left wing hack solutions that are not solutions at all. You are anti-reason and let emotions base your political reasoning instead of facts, and talking to you is like talking to a fucking brickwall.

[Dr. Cynic]

Mr. Bono, the next time you address me, you address me with respect. I disagree with your theories, and to call me a conservative is an insult to me.

Mr. Bono, internal improvements have long been held important to me. I want to cut down on potholes and congestion. It seems to me that all you want to do is increase it. Your arguement that I want to implode the federal government is preposterous, and ignorant.

I see that if we increase funding for the reigons, we leave thier economies off of the very difficult burden of funding internal improvements alone.

As for my comments about your own conservativisim, during my time here, all the comments I've seen from you, propose slashing the budget, not including this issue, but also your exchange with Senator Hawk, earlier in the thread.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

As Al has stated, the mideast is completely imploded...

And as he didn't say he helped cause it by leaving office during that time. -_-

A close relative of mine was very, very ill at the time. Sometimes real life has to be put before what is essentially a game (no matter how interesting a game it might be).
Besides, the Mideast was doomed long before I took office; in fact it was probably a gonner before Andrew became Governer a few months before then.

But that's the past. The present situation is that the Mideast Government clearly has no authority over the various states in the Mideast Region. It's law is probably dead-letter now anyway.

[MasterJedi]

As Al has stated, the mideast is completely imploded...

And as he didn't say he helped cause it by leaving office during that time. -_-

A close relative of mine was very, very ill at the time. Sometimes real life has to be put before what is essentially a game (no matter how interesting a game it might be).
Besides, the Mideast was doomed long before I took office; in fact it was probably a gonner before Andrew became Governer a few months before then.

But that's the past. The present situation is that the Mideast Government clearly has no authority over the various states in the Mideast Region. It's law is probably dead-letter now anyway.

It was fine when Afleitch was in there, it was slowing down but nothing was happening. Your almost complete inactivity is what made it go into the sh**tter as fast as it did after you took office.

And I have no idea what the hell you are talking about with the laws anyway. "The sky is falling. The sky is falling."

[Filuwaúrdjan]

It was fine when Afleitch was in there,

No it wasn't (not his fault, not his fault at all). It hadn't been "fine" for quite a while, although maybe you didn't notice that. -_-

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-_-

It wasn't so much slowing down as dying. And it had been doing that for months. -_-

As I recall... I ran for Governer because no one else was. I was unopposed. No campaigning happend. There were no candidates for Lt.Gov. and the inactive incumbent was re-elected due to write-ins (and has not been seen in Atlasia since). This is not a sign of everything being "fine". -_-

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-_-

You seem to have a funny definition of inactivity. I did all that the Mideast Constitution said I had to do (mistakes were made o/c, but then such is life. Don't try to tell me that you never made a mistake as PPT) and I also tried to get a discussion going into ways to save the Region. I don't recall a single positive contribution from you, but then maybe my memory is as faulty as yours.

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I mean that if the Mideast was real, it's laws and so on would be a dead letter now. Do you know what that means?

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Wrong again. As usual. In this case the sky has already fallen in. Have a look at our recent "elections".

Did it fall it quicker than it would have done were it not for my octogenarian Nan having to undergo lifesaving surgery? Yes. Would it have fallen in eventually anyway? Yes. Is any one person to blame for the death of Regional politics in the Mideast? No.
Should Atlasia try to learn from the failure of Regionalism instead of bickering about who's fault it was? Yes... at least I think so. You are free to disagree, as you plainly do.

And -_- to you as well.

[Democratic Hawk]

Then back it up. You are just being boneheaded. I've presented you claims and backed them up. You present only denial. You are the personification of everything that is wrong with this senate--you are conservative in the worst possible sense of the word: you are a complete reactionary who is scared shitless of any sort of change that can alter your beloved status quo, and can only propose the same left wing hack solutions that are not solutions at all. You are anti-reason and let emotions base your political reasoning instead of facts, and talking to you is like talking to a fucking brickwall.

Let me make one thing perfectly clear, I will not tolerate such language by anybody towards a Senator, let alone from a member of the Cabinet, who should know better , on the floor of the Senate

You have made your case, the Senator disagrees. I'm sure you are more than capable of responding without showing yourself up

Let me also remind you that Senator Dr Cynic is an elected member of the Senate, you sir are a presidential apppointee, who is only in such high office by the virtue of the advise and consent of the Senate. I don't care what you think of that, just remember it

My advise to you is that, in future, you conduct yourself in a manner befitting the office you hold. Furthermore, you owe the Senator a public apology

'Hawk'

P.S. Don't even think about editing your post!