Chavez UN Speech
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Author Topic: Chavez UN Speech  (Read 2800 times)
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Miamiu1027
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« on: September 21, 2006, 08:38:46 AM »
« edited: September 21, 2006, 02:32:57 PM by © Boss Tweed »

link

Discuss.
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MODU
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« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2006, 08:48:43 AM »



It was quite funny and well written, but hollow in substance.  The fact that he chose to reference the socialist Noam Chomsky as the representation of the US was one of the funniest things I've ever seen at the UN.
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angus
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« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2006, 08:57:54 AM »

SF chronicle?  Birdcage lining, at best.  I used to read that when I lived in the SF bay area.  I'd take the free trial two-week subscription from time to time.  But if you have internet, you could get a real newspaper.  WaPo and NYT and BBC are all free.  For a small fee, you could even get WSJ, but you're not old enough to be investing money so you may not have use for the rightist propaganda just yet.  Personally, I subscribe to WSJ print edition these days.  But for on-line news I read WaPo or NYT.  SF chronicle?  Yeah, if I'm going out of my way for material for my act I do.  Ah, well.  à chacun son goût, n'est-ce pas?

Let's see what the article actually says before we trash it anyway...

Oh, it's actually plaigarized from WaPo I see.  Well, in that case I'll give some thoughts.  Well, in a thread about castro I'd posted
he needs to look good.  He's been spreading oil money and will be a big part of the nonaligned states meeting in Havana.  He wants to get one of the rotating seats this october when five of the ten rotating members of the UN security council come up.  Traditionally at least one latinamerican nation is on the council.  The US is working hard to get Guatemala elected.  Iran definitely wants Venezuela on the council.   Venezuela or Guatemala?  Depends on many things.  Chávez needs to look like he's at least in control of his own bodily functions.  The image draws contrast between the frail and outgoing Castro and the relatively virile-looking Chávez.  The image also portrays Chávez as compassionate and concerned.  It may be a winning image in some corners of the third world.
and I think really any discussion of the comments of Chávez should focus on the relevancies.  And that's really the only one.  Does his comment help or hurt his cause?  Hard to say really.  If you're looking to get Venezuela on the council because you're Iran, then it doesn't matter.  Nothing is going to deter that.  If you're into Venezuela because you like Iran, same thing.  But if you're on the fence,this could sway your vote.  Here's a telling exerpt from the article you posted:

"U.N. experts said that while Chávez's speech may resonate with delegations who oppose a new world order built around U.S. power, it was so undiplomatic that it might undermine his chances of getting into the Security Council."

I agree.  On balance, it seems like the sort of belicose rhetoric that even anti-imperialist third world nations might find objectionable.  While an african state might not be comfortable with the Western Powers running roughshod over the world imposing their brand of morality, they might also not want to award the coveted seat to such an irresponsible state.  They're like the libertarians in a general election, in that sense.  They may feel that neither Guatemala (by virtue of its alliance with the Imperialists) nor Venezuela (by virtue of the savage nature of its president) deserve the seat and may go with a third choice. 

Modu, Chávez waved a copy of Noam Chomsky's book "Hegemony or Survival:  America's Quest for Global Domination," and recommended that everyone read it precisely becaue Chomsky is such a well-known critic of US foreign policy.  And the fact that he's a native-born US citizen and respected American linguist gives weight to argument.  It's a critique of The Great Satan from within the belly of the beast.  Whether or not you agree with anything Chomsky writes, the fact is that he's an American intellectual who is basically in agreement with the sorts of folks likely to vote against any country that the US recommends for the seat on the council.

Still, I just can't see this helping venezuela's bid for the seat.  Just my opinion.
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MasterJedi
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« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2006, 09:01:38 AM »

Ok, let's knock of Chavez by helping his rivals down there.
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StatesRights
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« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2006, 10:18:31 AM »

Assassinate this POS.
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angus
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« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2006, 10:40:44 AM »

Ok, let's knock of Chavez by helping his rivals down there.


While these may seem like good short-term solutions, they might have the effect of proving him right about the US.  Any meddling in the internal affairs of third-world governments are usually noted and widely reported.  Chávez made a move something like putting a rook at risk.  We can take it with a pawn easily, but maybe if we're thinking clearly and patiently we'd see that moving that pawn diagonally frees up a path of escape for his king.  Gotta be thinking several moves ahead in these kinds of complex games.  Checkmate may be only two or three moves away.  It's tempting to take that rook, but it may not always be the best course of action.  Eyes on the prize. 

If we kill him or clumsily undermine his authority or fund rebels in nearby states, we only prove him right that we are meddling, colonizing brutes.  This won't win our cause any votes.  In fact, it may have the effect of losing votes we think are already secure.
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MODU
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« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2006, 10:46:03 AM »

Modu, Chávez waved a copy of Noam Chomsky's book "Hegemony or Survival:  America's Quest for Global Domination," and recommended that everyone read it precisely becaue Chomsky is such a well-known critic of US foreign policy.  And the fact that he's a native-born US citizen and respected American linguist gives weight to argument.  It's a critique of The Great Satan from within the belly of the beast.  Whether or not you agree with anything Chomsky writes, the fact is that he's an American intellectual who is basically in agreement with the sorts of folks likely to vote against any country that the US recommends for the seat on the council.

I know who he is.  Been exposed to his work (both linguistic and political) over the years.  He is a socialist though (we have them in the US).  Actually, he says he's a "libertarian socialist," and is a member of the Industrial Workers of the World, which is a backer of various leftist labor parties.
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ATFFL
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« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2006, 01:47:46 PM »

Modu, Chávez waved a copy of Noam Chomsky's book "Hegemony or Survival:  America's Quest for Global Domination," and recommended that everyone read it precisely becaue Chomsky is such a well-known critic of US foreign policy.  And the fact that he's a native-born US citizen and respected American linguist gives weight to argument.  It's a critique of The Great Satan from within the belly of the beast.  Whether or not you agree with anything Chomsky writes, the fact is that he's an American intellectual who is basically in agreement with the sorts of folks likely to vote against any country that the US recommends for the seat on the council.

I know who he is.  Been exposed to his work (both linguistic and political) over the years.  He is a socialist though (we have them in the US).  Actually, he says he's a "libertarian socialist," and is a member of the Industrial Workers of the World, which is a backer of various leftist labor parties.

Chomsky lives off 40 year old success and cannot accept that the world has moved past him since then.
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Angel of Death
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« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2006, 09:38:19 PM »


Tell me again: Are we exporting democracy at the barrel of a gun or non-democracy? I forgot.

Oh wait, now I remember, it's: Overthrow regimes that are unfriendly to the U.S. government regardlessly!

Tell me, do you also have that stereotypical evil laughter as displayed by those Saturday morning cartoon villains?
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The Dowager Mod
texasgurl
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« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2006, 09:40:54 PM »

They already tried, why do you think he's so pissed off?
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StatesRights
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« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2006, 05:50:27 AM »


Tell me again: Are we exporting democracy at the barrel of a gun or non-democracy? I forgot.

Oh wait, now I remember, it's: Overthrow regimes that are unfriendly to the U.S. government regardlessly!

Tell me, do you also have that stereotypical evil laughter as displayed by those Saturday morning cartoon villains?

He's a communist and that automatically makes him a target for the US.
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opebo
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« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2006, 06:09:56 AM »

In this very thread we see the response of fascists to speech they dislike - 'assassinate him'.
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Platypus
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« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2006, 10:13:40 AM »


to pig his gout, isn't it?

my hybrid french and spanish, neither terribly good, leads to mistranslations sometimes.
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GMantis
Dessie Potter
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« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2006, 10:17:12 AM »


Tell me again: Are we exporting democracy at the barrel of a gun or non-democracy? I forgot.

Oh wait, now I remember, it's: Overthrow regimes that are unfriendly to the U.S. government regardlessly!

Tell me, do you also have that stereotypical evil laughter as displayed by those Saturday morning cartoon villains?

He's a communist and that automatically makes him a target for the US.
Angel of Death, haven't you yet realised that for Neo-cons democracy = loyality to the USA.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2006, 10:31:49 AM »

Actually he's pretending to be a socialist.. and socialism does not = communism no matter how much the right would like it to.

Chavez is being a pain in the backside simple because he can. Just ignore him.
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StatesRights
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« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2006, 10:39:53 AM »


Tell me again: Are we exporting democracy at the barrel of a gun or non-democracy? I forgot.

Oh wait, now I remember, it's: Overthrow regimes that are unfriendly to the U.S. government regardlessly!

Tell me, do you also have that stereotypical evil laughter as displayed by those Saturday morning cartoon villains?

He's a communist and that automatically makes him a target for the US.
Angel of Death, haven't you yet realised that for Neo-cons democracy = loyality to the USA.

I'm not a Neo Con.
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GMantis
Dessie Potter
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« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2006, 12:04:17 PM »


Tell me again: Are we exporting democracy at the barrel of a gun or non-democracy? I forgot.

Oh wait, now I remember, it's: Overthrow regimes that are unfriendly to the U.S. government regardlessly!

Tell me, do you also have that stereotypical evil laughter as displayed by those Saturday morning cartoon villains?

He's a communist and that automatically makes him a target for the US.
Angel of Death, haven't you yet realised that for Neo-cons democracy = loyality to the USA.

I'm not a Neo Con.
I'm sorry, I didn't express myself correctly. The above has been true for the foreign policy of the US for a very long time, though it has increased under Bush.
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WMS
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« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2006, 02:23:43 PM »

Quote
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Your idol, leftists. Roll Eyes
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WalterMitty
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« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2006, 02:29:03 PM »

In this very thread we see the response of fascists to speech they dislike - 'assassinate him'.

there is no bigger intolerant on the board than you.

you advocate feeding religious to the lions.

what is the difference?

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opebo
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« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2006, 02:30:35 PM »

In this very thread we see the response of fascists to speech they dislike - 'assassinate him'.

there is no bigger intolerant on the board than you.

you advocate feeding religious to the lions.

what is the difference?

Self defense!
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Queen Mum Inks.LWC
Inks.LWC
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« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2006, 03:33:38 PM »

I have to give credit to Pelosi--the fact that she said, don't talk about My President that way was very good.  This is the one day I have liked her.
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jfern
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« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2006, 03:37:03 PM »

Democrats should ignore right-wing concern trolls. Have I ever liked what Bush had to say? No, Bush doesn't give a flying sh**t what I think. It's the spineless Democrats who keep losing, not Bush.
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