Bush Supports Turkey's Entry Into the E.U.

[Frodo]

Bush Backs Turkey's Entry to E.U.;
Meeting With Prime Minister Also Covers Extremism, Middle East

By Michael A. Fletcher
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, October 3, 2006; Page A06

President Bush voiced support for Turkey's entry to the European Union yesterday after meeting with Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan in a long session that also focused on ways to counter extremism, instability in the Middle East and the continued violence in Iraq.

The meeting between the two leaders lasted nearly two hours -- almost an hour longer than scheduled -- and White house aides called this a reflection of Turkey's critical relationship with the United States.
   
"Our desire is . . . to help people who care about a peaceful future to reject radicalism and extremism," Bush said after the Oval Office meeting. "I made it very clear to the prime minister I think it's in the United States' interests that Turkey join the European Union."

Speaking through an interpreter, Erdogan thanked Bush for the endorsement, adding that "the United States is a strategic partner, a very important strategic partner for Turkey."

Last fall, the E.U. began talks with Turkey with the aim of having the country join the 25-member bloc. But those talks have gotten off to a rocky start, as the E.U. has pressured Turkey to cooperate in reaching a comprehensive settlement for the reunification of Cyprus and on rights for Turkey's Kurdish minority as conditions of membership.

Many European countries are experiencing a surge of anti-immigration sentiment, causing some anxiety around the prospect of admitting a 99 percent Muslim nation that has more than 70 million citizens, many of whom are poor by European standards. Membership in the E.U. can come with relaxed immigration rules.

Meanwhile, support for E.U. membership is beginning to wane among Turkish citizens, although a sizable majority still favor joining.

In an interview, Erdogan said the majority of Turks still view E.U. membership as something that would produce economic benefits and improve their quality of life. At the same time, he said, the European position on the Cyprus issue is causing a backlash against the idea of joining.

"At times, the statements made by the E.U. have a negative impact on Turkish public opinion," Erdogan said.

[Democratic Hawk]

No



And their human rights record must improve to boot!

Dave

[Michael Z]

Scandalous!

There are no golf courses in Turkish Cyprus!

[jerusalemcar5]

Of course.  There is nothing wrong with Turkey comapred to the other crappy E Europe nations they admitted.

[Ebowed]

They need to stop pretending they didn't orchestrate the Armenian Genocide

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Of course.  There is nothing wrong with Turkey comapred to the other crappy E Europe nations they admitted.

Those countries aren't occupying one third of another sovereign country, and aren't throwing journalists in jail for saying that a historical genocide happened.

[jerusalemcar5]

Of course.  There is nothing wrong with Turkey comapred to the other crappy E Europe nations they admitted.

Those countries aren't occupying one third of another sovereign country, and aren't throwing journalists in jail for saying that a historical genocide happened.

Here's just one example of issues with throwing press in jail.  Journalists ar ebeing jailed for nothing in both countries.

Which country are they "occupying"?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Of course.  There is nothing wrong with Turkey comapred to the other crappy E Europe nations they admitted.

Those countries aren't occupying one third of another sovereign country, and aren't throwing journalists in jail for saying that a historical genocide happened.

Here's just one example of issues with throwing press in jail.  Journalists ar ebeing jailed for nothing in both countries.

That's for libel. Could be true or not, but it's a far cry from jailing journalists for writing about the Armenian Genocide. Imagine if Germany arrested people for writing about the Holocaust.

Which country are they "occupying"?

Cyprus

[GMantis]

No. Turkey will be the undoing of the EU if they are admitted. The very fact that they are supported by the US is already indicates that they shouldn't be admitted.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I support Turkey being admitted; the geographical and historical reasons seem pretty good to me, and for me that's enough (see? I can be somewhat idealistic at times).
Turkey entering the E.U won't cause the death of Ever-Closer-Union, because that's dead already (and whether or not that is a good thing or not is not the issue here) and won't cause the death of the E.U either... although it will cause the death of the E.U as we currently know it. Mind you, something similer happend a few years ago when most of the East was let in.
Turkey's human rights record is less than great but it has been improving (and to be honest the human rights records of certain E.U member states when they were admitted were less than great as well).

As for Cyprus... I'm pretty sure that the most intransigient side (as of the past few years) on that debate has been an E.U member state for a while now...

IMO most of the opposition to Turkey joining is (not very) veiled Islamophobia...

[minionofmidas]

I support Turkey being admitted; the geographical and historical reasons seem pretty good to me, and for me that's enough (see? I can be somewhat idealistic at times).

Also, there's the slight issue of Turkey having been given promises of being able to join one day time and time again ... and other countries getting admitted on the relatively fast track all through the period...

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You'll probably be hard pressed to find any genuine pro-European from the EU-15 in Brussels who doesn't believe admitting the Eastern states without passing the Constitution first wasn't the EU's biggest mistake ever... and it would have passed in that case. As for now, the EU as an idea rather than a market is ... not dead, but certainly dormant.

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Nothing to add.

Of course I want the Turkish army's current culture out of the picture... they're as bad as the Thai one (and rather similar, too).

[Democratic Hawk]

Furthermore, Turkey for the most part, geographically, is not even in Europe but, as far as Islamic countries go, I dare say its one of the better ones

Dave

[Silent Hunter]

Yes, in principle. But not until they sort out human rights and Cyprus.

[NewFederalist]

It is none of my business. I am an American. Europe can do what it pleases.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Isn't that the kiss of death for Turkey?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

You also have to remember that, historically speaking, Asia Minor was essentially always part of what we would think of now as "Europe". It's certainly played an important role in European history.

Besides the boundaries of Europe are ever-changing.

Certainly eastern Turkey is every bit "European" as Greece is... out of interest, am I the only one who struggles to tell Greeks and Turks apart? I'm thinking especially of kebab shop owners and so on (apologies for using a stereotype here). Even the accents sound (to me anyway) similer.

[Michael Z]

What Matthews and Al said, plus there are other countries which may not be geographically part of Europe, but are culturally and economically probably closer to Europe than their neighbours, Israel being an obvious example.

With Turkey, as well as Russia, it's all rather ambiguous, since both countries stretch across two continents, but generally there is a good case to be made that Turkey, at least in part, is "European".

Certainly eastern Turkey is every bit "European" as Greece is... out of interest, am I the only one who struggles to tell Greeks and Turks apart? I'm thinking especially of kebab shop owners and so on (apologies for using a stereotype here). Even the accents sound (to me anyway) similer.

That's really ironic, since Greece and Turkey can't stand each other.

[Democratic Hawk]

Furthermore, Turkey for the most part, geographically, is not even in Europe

Dave

Yes, but land area alone isn't all that important (a lot of the country is very sparsely populated): The centre of Turkey's culture and economy - Istanbul - Is mostly within the European part of Turkey, and is commonly regarded as "Europe's" second largest city (with more than 10 million people IIRC). It has also been chosen as a "European capital of culture".

Istanbul is, indeed, in Europe I'm not disputing that

Dave

[GMantis]

Isn't that the kiss of death for Turkey?

No it's the kiss of death for the EU.

[GMantis]

I support Turkey being admitted; the geographical and historical reasons seem pretty good to me, and for me that's enough (see? I can be somewhat idealistic at times).
Turkey entering the E.U won't cause the death of Ever-Closer-Union, because that's dead already (and whether or not that is a good thing or not is not the issue here) and won't cause the death of the E.U either... although it will cause the death of the E.U as we currently know it. Mind you, something similer happend a few years ago when most of the East was let in.
Turkey's human rights record is less than great but it has been improving (and to be honest the human rights records of certain E.U member states when they were admitted were less than great as well).

As for Cyprus... I'm pretty sure that the most intransigient side (as of the past few years) on that debate has been an E.U member state for a while now...

IMO most of the opposition to Turkey joining is (not very) veiled Islamophobia...

Turkey is mostly an Asiatic country and its Islamic culture is very different from the mainly Christian European one. For the EU which has serious problems with its Muslim population to admit such an overwhelmingly Islamic country with a rapidly growing population would be disastrous.
Name a newly admitted Eastern European country with similar human rights abuses as Turkey. For heaven's sake, they are still throwing people in jail for writing books.
In what way have the Greeks been intransigent (refusing the absurd reunification plan doesn't count.
IMO, someone who can't tell Turks and Greeks apart, isn't really qualified to give opinion on this issue.
As for your Islamophobia remark, please think of a better insult.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Turkey should be given an ultimatum similar to Serbia.

Until they:

1-Withdraw all troops from Cyprus
2-Recognize the Armenian Genocide

There will be absolutely no discussion of EU admittance.

[Michael Z]

I support Turkey being admitted; the geographical and historical reasons seem pretty good to me, and for me that's enough (see? I can be somewhat idealistic at times).
Turkey entering the E.U won't cause the death of Ever-Closer-Union, because that's dead already (and whether or not that is a good thing or not is not the issue here) and won't cause the death of the E.U either... although it will cause the death of the E.U as we currently know it. Mind you, something similer happend a few years ago when most of the East was let in.
Turkey's human rights record is less than great but it has been improving (and to be honest the human rights records of certain E.U member states when they were admitted were less than great as well).

As for Cyprus... I'm pretty sure that the most intransigient side (as of the past few years) on that debate has been an E.U member state for a while now...

IMO most of the opposition to Turkey joining is (not very) veiled Islamophobia...

Turkey is mostly an Asiatic country and its Islamic culture is very different from the mainly Christian European one. For the EU which has serious problems with its Muslim population

European countries have no bigger or worse a problem than Britain had with its Irish population during the height of the IRA troubles.

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I wouldn't say it was an insult so much as a sheer statement of fact, given that most people don't want to admit Turkey into the EU solely on grounds of it being a Muslim country. Which is interesting, since Turkey is an example of a secular Islamic democracy.

That said, the Turkish government has done some disgraceful things in the Kurdish region, and clearly EU entry cannot be an option until this has been sorted, but if anything the EU could use its muscle to ensure that Turkey does get its act together, ie. saying "Do this and you can join" as opposed to point blank saying "No you can't join, period".

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

The EU shoudl be helping the turks resolve the kurdish issues. By "resolve" "I mean chase every last kurd into Iraq.

[Beet]

It is none of my business. I am an American. Europe can do what it pleases.

^^^^^

I don't know what the EU wants to be, frankly. A semi-state? A foreign policy state? An NGO? Though, history seems to suggest that the worst of all possible outcomes would be an organization that prevented decisive action from any of the member countries yet which itself was incapable of decisive action. Perhaps they should decide what they want before admitting more members.

[Jens]

I support Turkey being admitted; the geographical and historical reasons seem pretty good to me, and for me that's enough (see? I can be somewhat idealistic at times).
Turkey entering the E.U won't cause the death of Ever-Closer-Union, because that's dead already (and whether or not that is a good thing or not is not the issue here) and won't cause the death of the E.U either... although it will cause the death of the E.U as we currently know it. Mind you, something similer happend a few years ago when most of the East was let in.
Turkey's human rights record is less than great but it has been improving (and to be honest the human rights records of certain E.U member states when they were admitted were less than great as well).

As for Cyprus... I'm pretty sure that the most intransigient side (as of the past few years) on that debate has been an E.U member state for a while now...

IMO most of the opposition to Turkey joining is (not very) veiled Islamophobia...

Turkey is mostly an Asiatic country and its Islamic culture is very different from the mainly Christian European one. For the EU which has serious problems with its Muslim population to admit such an overwhelmingly Islamic country with a rapidly growing population would be disastrous.
Name a newly admitted Eastern European country with similar human rights abuses as Turkey. For heaven's sake, they are still throwing people in jail for writing books.
In what way have the Greeks been intransigent (refusing the absurd reunification plan doesn't count.
IMO, someone who can't tell Turks and Greeks apart, isn't really qualified to give opinion on this issue.
As for your Islamophobia remark, please think of a better insult.

I think that the situation is slitly more complicated that Turkey = Islamic, Europe = Christian. Turkey is as Al said a secular society with its own district culture. Actually the Balkan countries are culturally heavily influenced from Turkey via the Osman Empire, that didn't, I repeat, didn't repress its Christian minorities. This includes Bulgaria also.

The claim that all the EU-countries have major problems with their muslim minorities are quite an exateration. Religion aside the problems fx in France was closely related to the lower classes, where the people causing the trouble are by large marginalised and stigmatised in the society.

The Kurds has been mensioned a lot in relation with Turkey and they do have major problems, but so have current EU-memberstates like Latvia, Rumania, Bulgaria and Hungary (Spain should perhaps be included too).