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| | | |-+  Badnarik's VP is an Embarrassment!
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Author Topic: Badnarik's VP is an Embarrassment!  (Read 4004 times)
Fmr. Gov. NickG
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« Reply #25 on: August 16, 2004, 06:53:25 pm »
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OK, according to the article:

Badnarik "believes that the federal income tax has no legal authority and that people are justified in refusing to file a tax return until such time as the IRS provides them with an explanation of its authority to collect the tax." Accordingly, he hasn't filed any federal tax return in many years.


Actually this is correct.

It's correct that the government has no legal authority to tax incomes?  Then what does the 16th amendment do?
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StatesRights
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« Reply #26 on: August 16, 2004, 06:54:50 pm »
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OK, according to the article:

Badnarik "believes that the federal income tax has no legal authority and that people are justified in refusing to file a tax return until such time as the IRS provides them with an explanation of its authority to collect the tax." Accordingly, he hasn't filed any federal tax return in many years.


Actually this is correct.

It's correct that the government has no legal authority to tax incomes?  Then what does the 16th amendment do?

It's unconstitutional and should be repealed immediately. States were coerced into ratifying it.
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Fmr. Gov. NickG
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« Reply #27 on: August 16, 2004, 07:01:18 pm »
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OK, according to the article:

Badnarik "believes that the federal income tax has no legal authority and that people are justified in refusing to file a tax return until such time as the IRS provides them with an explanation of its authority to collect the tax." Accordingly, he hasn't filed any federal tax return in many years.


Actually this is correct.

It's correct that the government has no legal authority to tax incomes?  Then what does the 16th amendment do?

It's unconstitutional and should be repealed immediately. States were coerced into ratifying it.

A constitutional amendment by definition cannot be unconstitutional.  An amendment overrides whatever the constitution said previously.
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A18
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« Reply #28 on: August 16, 2004, 07:15:16 pm »
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Government raising money for unconstitutional purposes is unconstitutional.
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BlazeNWO
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« Reply #29 on: August 16, 2004, 07:39:40 pm »
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OK, according to the article:

Badnarik "believes that the federal income tax has no legal authority and that people are justified in refusing to file a tax return until such time as the IRS provides them with an explanation of its authority to collect the tax." Accordingly, he hasn't filed any federal tax return in many years.


Actually this is correct.

It's correct that the government has no legal authority to tax incomes?  Then what does the 16th amendment do?

It's unconstitutional and should be repealed immediately. States were coerced into ratifying it.

A constitutional amendment by definition cannot be unconstitutional.  An amendment overrides whatever the constitution said previously.

The 16th amendment was actually the result of a political scheme by the Democrats and Republicans.  Initially, it started out as the Bailey Bill in 1909, intoduced by Democrat Joseph Bailey (Who himself was opposed to income taxes).  The purpose of it was to force the Republicans to oppose it, and thus give them a bad face (i.e. show openly that the Republicans were a party of the rich).

Instead, Roosevelt and some other left leaning Republicans actually favored the bill, and it was going to be passed.  Then, conservative Republicans (Taft, Aldritch, Lodge) started looking for a way to cancel the bill, and decided that they would favor an income tax ONLY if it became an amendment (The thinking was, it wouldnt get enough votes to ratify it).  Of course, this didn't work out, and it went through.  So, it ended up badly for the Republicans, and a win for the Democrats (but not in the way they wanted).  "Soak the rich" had passed the bill, even though ultimately, the rich got off pretty much scotfree with this little "clause":

Provided, however, that nothing in this section shall apply...to any corporation or association organized and operated exclusively for religious, charitable, scientific or educational purposes

Before the bill was even introduced, people like Rockefeller and J.P. Morgan set up "charities" and as such, the income tax amendment didnt effect them whatsoever.  In the end, everyone basically lost, or "broke even" (Didnt really affect the rich, besides them having to go through the trouble of settting up those charities).

Finally, the point is, if you unquestioningly accept every single law and amendment passed, does that mean a democracy?  What if another political "fluke" happened and a new amendment was passed that had even "worse" effects on Americans (Patriot Act).  Should you blindly accept these new laws and rules, or should you be able to go against them and question them?  I do agree with paying your taxes, but I dont agree with the idea behind income taxes.  I can see where Band. is codming from, he'll pay his taxes as long as the IRS justifies them.  Shouldn't he, and everyone, be allowed to have their taxes justified?
« Last Edit: August 16, 2004, 07:44:39 pm by BlazeNWO »Logged
Fmr. Gov. NickG
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« Reply #30 on: August 16, 2004, 08:01:31 pm »
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Oh, I certainly don't think we should just accept every law that is passed...but the way to counter unjust laws is through the political process, not by refusing to obey them.  I am voting for Kerry because I disagree with many of the laws that Bush has passed...but I can't just pretend those laws don't exist.
 
I have no problem with libertarians campaigning on the platform of "elect us, and we'll repeal the income tax."  I DO have a problem with simply refusing to pay the income tax because you disagree with it.  It sounds like most of the libertarians on this board agree with me on this, and pay their taxes.  But their presidential candidate apparently doesn't see any difference between legitimate political activity and criminal behavior.
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IDS Judicial Overlord John Dibble
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« Reply #31 on: August 16, 2004, 08:09:06 pm »
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Oh, I certainly don't think we should just accept every law that is passed...but the way to counter unjust laws is through the political process, not by refusing to obey them.


So, the people who used civil disobedience in the Civil Rights movement were wrong? Wink
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A18
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« Reply #32 on: August 16, 2004, 08:11:46 pm »
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I'm 16, so needless to say I don't pay income tax.

But that said, boycotting the income tax until the federal government actually obeys the Constitution is a cool idea. Wink
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Senator Cynic
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« Reply #33 on: August 16, 2004, 08:12:02 pm »
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People who refuse to pay taxes have to go to jail. What makes them so special.
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Fmr. Gov. NickG
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« Reply #34 on: August 16, 2004, 08:18:30 pm »
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Oh, I certainly don't think we should just accept every law that is passed...but the way to counter unjust laws is through the political process, not by refusing to obey them.


So, the people who used civil disobedience in the Civil Rights movement were wrong? Wink

People in the civil rights movement had no choice, because they couldn't vote!  

Obviously if you can't participate in the democratic process, you need to find other ways to broadcast your agenda.  I'm not opposed to the use of civil disobedience or even violence to fight dictatorships.
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IDS Judicial Overlord John Dibble
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« Reply #35 on: August 16, 2004, 08:26:05 pm »
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Oh, I certainly don't think we should just accept every law that is passed...but the way to counter unjust laws is through the political process, not by refusing to obey them.


So, the people who used civil disobedience in the Civil Rights movement were wrong? Wink

People in the civil rights movement had no choice, because they couldn't vote!  

Obviously if you can't participate in the democratic process, you need to find other ways to broadcast your agenda.  I'm not opposed to the use of civil disobedience or even violence to fight dictatorships.

They could too vote, the 15th amendment gave them the right to vote.

"Section 1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.

Section 2. The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation."

Ratification was completed on February 3, 1870.

So, yes, they could vote. However, the REALITY was that those against equal rights for blacks tried and sometimes succeeded in blocking blacks from voting.
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« Reply #36 on: August 17, 2004, 09:05:49 am »
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The law says you are required to file a income tax RETURN. It doesn't say you are required to report any income as most Americans do not earn income. We earn wages. What you do is file a Zero Income tax return. It works for thousands of people who do it every year without any harrassment by the IRS.

Read here :

http://www.paynoincometax.com/
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IDS Legislator Dixie
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« Reply #37 on: October 13, 2014, 05:01:19 pm »
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But then again, when have Libertarian VP nominees not been an embarrassment?
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Lol - you guys are unbelievable.

A poll shows Brown up 1 in NH? Throw it in the trash.
A poll shows Begich up 10 (?!?) in Alaska? MUST BE GOOD,DEMS GUNNA KEEP THE SENATE
Deus Naturae
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« Reply #38 on: October 13, 2014, 07:28:38 pm »
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But then again, when have Libertarian VP nominees not been an embarrassment?
How was James Gray an embarrassment?
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ChairmanSanchez
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« Reply #39 on: October 14, 2014, 04:27:41 pm »
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But then again, when have Libertarian VP nominees not been an embarrassment?
And for that matter, when has it not been considered annoying to bump 10 year old threads for no reason?
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A Hybrid of Pat Buchanan and Bob Dylan.
Mechaman
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« Reply #40 on: October 16, 2014, 08:00:00 pm »
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But then again, when have Libertarian VP nominees not been an embarrassment?

And you bumped a decade old thread just to say this!?
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17:20   bore   the point of atlasia is to achieve things which you can then use as pick up lines
Pope Kalwejt I of Northeast
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« Reply #41 on: October 17, 2014, 12:44:22 pm »
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But then again, when have Libertarian VP nominees not been an embarrassment?

And you bumped a decade old thread just to say this!?

Trolls tend to do that.
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