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Author Topic: Gay Marriage Amendment  (Read 47627 times)
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StatesRights
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« Reply #75 on: July 05, 2004, 06:54:37 pm »
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Lots of religious discussion going on. Kinda hard to convince me your religion is the right one though - pretty much every holy book says something to the degree "This is the truth, and our God is the real God". I can't really accept any of them, because none of them have proof that they are right. What also complicates the issue is that pretty much any holy book can be interpreted in many ways(some Christians take the Bible literally, some don't), so I can't see a holy book as being flawless if it can be interpreted in many ways. A flawless book could only have one interpretation, because it would account for human interpretation by saying "this book shall be interpreted this way". Faith must be a nice thing to have, but I just have a hard time accepting something unproveable that is often drilled into people's heads from the time they are too young to even think for themselves.


The bible does say their is only one interpretation. Exactly what is written.

You don't come off as a literalist, SSN. I'm sure there's something in the Bible that's written that you wouldn't agree with a literal interpetation on. I'm not an expert on the Bible, so I can't think of an exact thing that I think you'd disagree with, but would you say the world was created 5000-6000 years ago, like pure literalists do?

I believe thier mathematics is off. I broke down generation by generation and it is closer to 15-20,000 years.

Well, I'll take your word for it(5-6000 is just what I heard), but my question is, do you believe it?

I believe that life may be that old yes. The bible actually does not mention when the universe was created time wise. Of course 7 days could be 7 Million years. The bible says, "A day in the life of God is a eternity to mankind"
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IDS Judicial Overlord John Dibble
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« Reply #76 on: July 05, 2004, 10:12:32 pm »
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Lots of religious discussion going on. Kinda hard to convince me your religion is the right one though - pretty much every holy book says something to the degree "This is the truth, and our God is the real God". I can't really accept any of them, because none of them have proof that they are right. What also complicates the issue is that pretty much any holy book can be interpreted in many ways(some Christians take the Bible literally, some don't), so I can't see a holy book as being flawless if it can be interpreted in many ways. A flawless book could only have one interpretation, because it would account for human interpretation by saying "this book shall be interpreted this way". Faith must be a nice thing to have, but I just have a hard time accepting something unproveable that is often drilled into people's heads from the time they are too young to even think for themselves.


The bible does say their is only one interpretation. Exactly what is written.

You don't come off as a literalist, SSN. I'm sure there's something in the Bible that's written that you wouldn't agree with a literal interpetation on. I'm not an expert on the Bible, so I can't think of an exact thing that I think you'd disagree with, but would you say the world was created 5000-6000 years ago, like pure literalists do?

I believe thier mathematics is off. I broke down generation by generation and it is closer to 15-20,000 years.

Well, I'll take your word for it(5-6000 is just what I heard), but my question is, do you believe it?

I believe that life may be that old yes. The bible actually does not mention when the universe was created time wise. Of course 7 days could be 7 Million years. The bible says, "A day in the life of God is a eternity to mankind"

Ah, a wise statement. I also think that could be a possibility(of course, I don't think the Bible mentions which it took to create the world, 7 days of man or 7 God Days). I think many of the literalists probably miss that line. I think it's kind of silly to think the world is anything less than a few billion years old though, what with scientific evidence and whatnot(not to mention the dinosaurs). Well, have a good day.
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« Reply #77 on: July 07, 2004, 01:05:44 am »
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I'm guessing Alfie stopped posting because he realizes he can't win...

thank you statesrights.

My main question is, why do homosexuals want marriage?
Marriage was founded as a union holy in the sight of God...it has only been lately that the government has taken it.

If I were gay, I would be pushing for more rights to civil unions...marriage should be the last thing they want.

Sigh...world confuses.  Fire bad. Tree pretty.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2004, 01:08:19 am by riceowl315 »Logged
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StatesRights
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« Reply #78 on: July 07, 2004, 02:43:03 am »
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I'm guessing Alfie stopped posting because he realizes he can't win...

thank you statesrights.

My main question is, why do homosexuals want marriage?
Marriage was founded as a union holy in the sight of God...it has only been lately that the government has taken it.

If I were gay, I would be pushing for more rights to civil unions...marriage should be the last thing they want.

Sigh...world confuses.  Fire bad. Tree pretty.

Is that a compliment? Smiley Cheesy
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« Reply #79 on: July 07, 2004, 04:19:31 pm »
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Marriage, in its many historical monogamous and polygamous forms, evolved independently across continents and faiths. It wasn't a 'God thing' but a 'people thing' Marriage is the union of two individuals into one loving couple, whether that is done under god or under the state. If gay people want to marry, the church neednt worry, most are quite happy to be married in the eyes of the law than in the eyes of god.
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« Reply #80 on: July 14, 2004, 12:14:40 pm »
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Latest news:
The Senate failed to get 60 votes to bring it to a floor vote.
Six Republicans defected to make the vote 48-50.  I believe the two missing votes were Kerry and Edwards, but I don't have a full report yet.
51 minus 6 is 45, so looks like three Democrats defected.

edit:
Yes, Kerry and Edwards missed the vote.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2004, 12:16:53 pm by Blue Rectangle »Logged
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« Reply #81 on: July 14, 2004, 12:19:18 pm »
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I'm sure Zell Miller voted for the amendment--I'm not sure about the other two Dems.

As for the 6 Repubs, my guess would be Specter, Chafee, Collins, Snowe, and two others.

When anybody has the full list, please post it here...
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[George W. Bush] has shattered the myth of white supremacy once and for all. -- Congressman Charles Rangel (D-NY)

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- sign seen at the March for Women's Lives, 4/25/04

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« Reply #82 on: July 14, 2004, 12:26:23 pm »
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It doesn't appear to be up on the Senate website yet.
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« Reply #83 on: July 14, 2004, 12:27:18 pm »
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I'm sure Zell Miller voted for the amendment--I'm not sure about the other two Dems.

As for the 6 Repubs, my guess would be Specter, Chafee, Collins, Snowe, and two others.

When anybody has the full list, please post it here...

Lamar Alexander maybe?
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Fmr. Gov. NickG
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« Reply #84 on: July 14, 2004, 12:28:28 pm »
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I for one am really disappointed that Kerry and Edwards didn't show up for this vote.  This gives the Republicans multiple lines of attack on them, whereas if they had just shown up and voted against the amendment, the would only have one attack, and a weak one at that.
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Fmr. Gov. NickG
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« Reply #85 on: July 14, 2004, 12:37:42 pm »
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The list has now been posted:

Dems voting Aye:
Byrd (WV)
Miller (GA)
Nelson (NE)

GOP voting Nea:
Campbell (CO)
Chafee (RI)
Collins (ME)
McCain (AZ)
Snowe (ME)
Sununu (NH)

Interesting that Specter voted Aye.
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« Reply #86 on: July 14, 2004, 12:40:42 pm »
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It was the least he could do....
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nclib
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« Reply #87 on: July 14, 2004, 12:45:41 pm »
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The list has now been posted:

Dems voting Aye:
Byrd (WV)
Miller (GA)
Nelson (NE)

GOP voting Nea:
Campbell (CO)
Chafee (RI)
Collins (ME)
McCain (AZ)
Snowe (ME)
Sununu (NH)

Interesting that Specter voted Aye.

So Alexander and Hagel voted for the amendment...
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[George W. Bush] has shattered the myth of white supremacy once and for all. -- Congressman Charles Rangel (D-NY)

"George Bush supports abstinence. Lucky Laura."
- sign seen at the March for Women's Lives, 4/25/04

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« Reply #88 on: July 14, 2004, 12:47:36 pm »
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Well, remember this wasn't actually a vote on the amendment, just to advance the debate process.
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Blue Rectangle
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« Reply #89 on: July 14, 2004, 01:32:53 pm »
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Does voting against a floor vote in the case of a constitutional amendment qualify as filibustering?
Can Republicans use the word "filibuster" to attack Dems that voted against a vote?
Does Kerry's and Edwards' missing of the vote hurt them with swing voters?  Does Kerry's failure to address the issue in a meaningful way hurt his standing among gay rights activists?

My opinions:
Gay rights activists know Kerry takes them for granted and will vote for him anyway.  Kerry will suffer very little from his constant dodges of the issue.

Kerry would have been better off showing up for the vote and making a case for not changing the constitution.  Bush will take the missed senate vote, add it to a list of other important missed votes, and make an issue of this.  Kerry can't sell his presidency to swing voters by refusing to show leadership on issues.
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« Reply #90 on: July 14, 2004, 02:21:44 pm »
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Barry is not often given the credit he deserved.  Mostly because his movement was hijacked.

His "credibility" wasn't enhanced by the most vicious and false political ad in all of American history -- the "Daisy Girl and the Countdown".  The ad was a filthy lie, and though it aired only once, it really hurt Goldwater.

Question: how was Goldwater's movement "hijacked"?  I don't know much about that era -- love to know more.

- Alfie
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« Reply #91 on: July 14, 2004, 09:46:51 pm »
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Theodore White's "The Making of the President 1964" discusses how some elements of the John Birch Society latched on to some of the Goldwater campaign machinery.  It tainted the campaign and made it impossible for Goldwater to make the broader appeal he needed to have any chance at all.  Of course, he had no chance in any event, but I think that might be what was meant by "hijacking the movement".  I could be wrong.
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« Reply #92 on: July 14, 2004, 10:07:32 pm »
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Barry is not often given the credit he deserved.  Mostly because his movement was hijacked.

His "credibility" wasn't enhanced by the most vicious and false political ad in all of American history -- the "Daisy Girl and the Countdown".  The ad was a filthy lie, and though it aired only once, it really hurt Goldwater.

Question: how was Goldwater's movement "hijacked"?  I don't know much about that era -- love to know more.

- Alfie

yes, such a dispicable ad. More proof LBJ was a total creep.
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StatesRights
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« Reply #93 on: July 15, 2004, 01:11:34 am »
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Barry is not often given the credit he deserved.  Mostly because his movement was hijacked.

His "credibility" wasn't enhanced by the most vicious and false political ad in all of American history -- the "Daisy Girl and the Countdown".  The ad was a filthy lie, and though it aired only once, it really hurt Goldwater.

Question: how was Goldwater's movement "hijacked"?  I don't know much about that era -- love to know more.

- Alfie

yes, such a dispicable ad. More proof LBJ was a total creep.

And a criminal......you know what he did.
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« Reply #94 on: July 15, 2004, 07:36:41 am »
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Barry is not often given the credit he deserved.  Mostly because his movement was hijacked.

His "credibility" wasn't enhanced by the most vicious and false political ad in all of American history -- the "Daisy Girl and the Countdown".  The ad was a filthy lie, and though it aired only once, it really hurt Goldwater.

Question: how was Goldwater's movement "hijacked"?  I don't know much about that era -- love to know more.

- Alfie

yes, such a dispicable ad. More proof LBJ was a total creep.

And a criminal......you know what he did.


He says he didn't.  Looks like it's your word against his...

- Alfie
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StatesRights
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« Reply #95 on: July 15, 2004, 07:39:15 am »
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Barry is not often given the credit he deserved.  Mostly because his movement was hijacked.

His "credibility" wasn't enhanced by the most vicious and false political ad in all of American history -- the "Daisy Girl and the Countdown".  The ad was a filthy lie, and though it aired only once, it really hurt Goldwater.

Question: how was Goldwater's movement "hijacked"?  I don't know much about that era -- love to know more.

- Alfie

yes, such a dispicable ad. More proof LBJ was a total creep.

And a criminal......you know what he did.


He says he didn't.  Looks like it's your word against his...

- Alfie


His word is as good as useless. LBJ was guilty of intensifying Vietnam, conspiracy to assasinate a president and murder of political rivals. History backs up all the aforementioned facts.
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« Reply #96 on: July 15, 2004, 08:16:00 am »
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Barry is not often given the credit he deserved.  Mostly because his movement was hijacked.

His "credibility" wasn't enhanced by the most vicious and false political ad in all of American history -- the "Daisy Girl and the Countdown".  The ad was a filthy lie, and though it aired only once, it really hurt Goldwater.

Question: how was Goldwater's movement "hijacked"?  I don't know much about that era -- love to know more.

- Alfie

yes, such a dispicable ad. More proof LBJ was a total creep.

And a criminal......you know what he did.


He says he didn't.  Looks like it's your word against his...

- Alfie


His word is as good as useless. LBJ was guilty of intensifying Vietnam, conspiracy to assasinate a president and murder of political rivals. History backs up all the aforementioned facts.

Vietnam I know.  What's this murder of political rivals"?  Never heard that before.
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« Reply #97 on: July 15, 2004, 10:10:25 am »
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Barry is not often given the credit he deserved.  Mostly because his movement was hijacked.

His "credibility" wasn't enhanced by the most vicious and false political ad in all of American history -- the "Daisy Girl and the Countdown".  The ad was a filthy lie, and though it aired only once, it really hurt Goldwater.

Question: how was Goldwater's movement "hijacked"?  I don't know much about that era -- love to know more.

- Alfie

yes, such a dispicable ad. More proof LBJ was a total creep.

And a criminal......you know what he did.


He says he didn't.  Looks like it's your word against his...

- Alfie


His word is as good as useless. LBJ was guilty of intensifying Vietnam, conspiracy to assasinate a president and murder of political rivals. History backs up all the aforementioned facts.

Vietnam I know.  What's this murder of political rivals"?  Never heard that before.


States believes LBJ was responsible for the Kennedy assassination.
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StatesRights
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« Reply #98 on: July 15, 2004, 10:13:40 am »
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Barry is not often given the credit he deserved.  Mostly because his movement was hijacked.

His "credibility" wasn't enhanced by the most vicious and false political ad in all of American history -- the "Daisy Girl and the Countdown".  The ad was a filthy lie, and though it aired only once, it really hurt Goldwater.

Question: how was Goldwater's movement "hijacked"?  I don't know much about that era -- love to know more.

- Alfie

yes, such a dispicable ad. More proof LBJ was a total creep.

And a criminal......you know what he did.


He says he didn't.  Looks like it's your word against his...

- Alfie


His word is as good as useless. LBJ was guilty of intensifying Vietnam, conspiracy to assasinate a president and murder of political rivals. History backs up all the aforementioned facts.

Vietnam I know.  What's this murder of political rivals"?  Never heard that before.


Yes, it is known that one political rival in LBJs early days of politics was murdered because he was going to turn LBJ in for his crookedness.
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« Reply #99 on: July 15, 2004, 03:55:19 pm »
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I'm at least happy that Sununu voted against it. I have to makle a decision, which Senator from NH I like better and today I would say Sununu.
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Private reasons great or small
Can be seen in the eyes of those that call
To make all that should be killed to crawl
While others say don't hate nothing at all
Except hatred."
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