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StatesRights
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« Reply #50 on: June 23, 2004, 08:35:42 am »
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I think John Kerry will not hinder the progress by fighting against the rulings that these courts make. That's his apathetic attitude on the issue.


Good! Lets let the activist judges keep getting out of control.

You mean like ones who over-ride state's rights in an election case by a 5-4 ruling?  Yeah, I'll be pefectly happy if someone can keep those 5 SCOTUS members in control.


That is foolish. Quit whining about 2000. Its over get over it. Your boy didn't win. The court did need to step in. What were we just going to recount until November of this year? lol
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« Reply #51 on: July 01, 2004, 01:49:47 pm »
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You mean like ones who over-ride state's rights in an election case by a 5-4 ruling?  Yeah, I'll be pefectly happy if someone can keep those 5 SCOTUS members in control.

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The supreme court only gets involved if the issue has national implications, which the 2000 election did.   That being said, I have no problem with Massachusettes courts allowing gay marriage as long as it is not forced onto other states.
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afleitch
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« Reply #52 on: July 01, 2004, 03:38:14 pm »
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StatesRights, I'd have thought, in principle, you would be AGAINST the amendment, as it violates...well states rights in regards to marriage law! Alabama will never always take a different course from Vermont and vice versa. If you really believe in states rights, surely each states right to determine their marriage law, as liberal or as conservative as it may be, should have your full support? Oh and with regards to civilisation, homosexuality was fairly common in Ancient Greece and Rome (check out a few painted Greek vases in the British Museum) and the Christian churches (Catholic and Orthodox) didn't come out against it doctrinally until the 1200's as the world plunged into the dark ages. During the Enlightenment, it was also common in the Italian city states, with Machiavelli, Michaelangelo, Da Vinci and many more thinkers, statesmen and artists were notably bi-sexual. And today? Well if artists such as David Hockney and actors like Sir Ian McKellan really bother you, then you should remove yourself from both modern and classical culture straight away! No doubt you'll label me as a troll, but you seem pretty used to throwing labels at people already.
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StatesRights
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« Reply #53 on: July 02, 2004, 01:08:08 am »
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StatesRights, I'd have thought, in principle, you would be AGAINST the amendment, as it violates...well states rights in regards to marriage law! Alabama will never always take a different course from Vermont and vice versa. If you really believe in states rights, surely each states right to determine their marriage law, as liberal or as conservative as it may be, should have your full support? Oh and with regards to civilisation, homosexuality was fairly common in Ancient Greece and Rome (check out a few painted Greek vases in the British Museum) and the Christian churches (Catholic and Orthodox) didn't come out against it doctrinally until the 1200's as the world plunged into the dark ages. During the Enlightenment, it was also common in the Italian city states, with Machiavelli, Michaelangelo, Da Vinci and many more thinkers, statesmen and artists were notably bi-sexual. And today? Well if artists such as David Hockney and actors like Sir Ian McKellan really bother you, then you should remove yourself from both modern and classical culture straight away! No doubt you'll label me as a troll, but you seem pretty used to throwing labels at people already.

I have said on many occassions that I am against this amendment and for leaving it up for the states to decide. I know the history of homosexuality but I also know it is forbidden in both the New and Old Testament. I must follow my beliefs on that. I have never heard of either Hockney or McKellan so I can't comment there. I will not label you as a troll as I believe you are excellent poster and a good addition to the forum. Those who have earned the label "troll" earned it. You are far far above a troll. So I apologize to you if I came off that way.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2004, 01:27:37 am by Senator StatesRights »Logged
Akno21
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« Reply #54 on: July 02, 2004, 09:09:53 am »
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Quote

I oppose gay marriage, though I think it should be put on the ballot of the states. I do not think you should be exiled, executed or whatever you want to say I believe. My opinions on this subject have been expressed on this forum yet you fail to respect them. You do what you want but I know from my religious faith that the act you are committing is wrong, plain and simple. That doesn't mean you're a bad person or evil. Simply misguided is all.


 

Nor do I think the evangelicals, America's equal to the Taliban, ought to necessarily be shipped to Gitmo when the Dems take power in January.  I know there is some discussion about that on the Left, but for now, I disagree.  Sort of.

Your religious "faith" is a mockery, and an insult to God.  Who do you think you are -- to act as God by being the judge and jury over any group of people?  Who elevated you to that lofty position?  It is a sacrilege, it is arrogant, and it wrong for you to make such outrageous and preposterous claims.  But I will pray for you...

- Alfie



Hey, I'm just following the teachings of the bible. If you choose not to accept that, well that's your own idea. However wrong you are. My opinion of homosexuals is not my judgement, just biblical teaching.

Why can't people think for themselves?
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StatesRights
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« Reply #55 on: July 02, 2004, 10:00:19 am »
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I oppose gay marriage, though I think it should be put on the ballot of the states. I do not think you should be exiled, executed or whatever you want to say I believe. My opinions on this subject have been expressed on this forum yet you fail to respect them. You do what you want but I know from my religious faith that the act you are committing is wrong, plain and simple. That doesn't mean you're a bad person or evil. Simply misguided is all.


 

Nor do I think the evangelicals, America's equal to the Taliban, ought to necessarily be shipped to Gitmo when the Dems take power in January.  I know there is some discussion about that on the Left, but for now, I disagree.  Sort of.

Your religious "faith" is a mockery, and an insult to God.  Who do you think you are -- to act as God by being the judge and jury over any group of people?  Who elevated you to that lofty position?  It is a sacrilege, it is arrogant, and it wrong for you to make such outrageous and preposterous claims.  But I will pray for you...

- Alfie



Hey, I'm just following the teachings of the bible. If you choose not to accept that, well that's your own idea. However wrong you are. My opinion of homosexuals is not my judgement, just biblical teaching.

Why can't people think for themselves?

It's called moral beliefs and a foundation based on faith in God.
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afleitch
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« Reply #56 on: July 02, 2004, 10:45:54 am »
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Apologies States Rights for just presuming your support of the amendment. At least you stick by your principles on the rights of states. However I still believe you are totally and utterly wrong, but thats the society we have. I look forward to more confrontations with you!
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StatesRights
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« Reply #57 on: July 02, 2004, 10:54:17 am »
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Apologies States Rights for just presuming your support of the amendment. At least you stick by your principles on the rights of states. However I still believe you are totally and utterly wrong, but thats the society we have. I look forward to more confrontations with you!

Also, I must add. Even though I do not believe homosexuality to be right I would never deny those who practice such things the right to existence. That would go against my views on liberty and freedom as well.
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« Reply #58 on: July 02, 2004, 10:56:20 am »
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I oppose gay marriage, though I think it should be put on the ballot of the states. I do not think you should be exiled, executed or whatever you want to say I believe. My opinions on this subject have been expressed on this forum yet you fail to respect them. You do what you want but I know from my religious faith that the act you are committing is wrong, plain and simple. That doesn't mean you're a bad person or evil. Simply misguided is all.


 

Nor do I think the evangelicals, America's equal to the Taliban, ought to necessarily be shipped to Gitmo when the Dems take power in January.  I know there is some discussion about that on the Left, but for now, I disagree.  Sort of.

Your religious "faith" is a mockery, and an insult to God.  Who do you think you are -- to act as God by being the judge and jury over any group of people?  Who elevated you to that lofty position?  It is a sacrilege, it is arrogant, and it wrong for you to make such outrageous and preposterous claims.  But I will pray for you...

- Alfie



Hey, I'm just following the teachings of the bible. If you choose not to accept that, well that's your own idea. However wrong you are. My opinion of homosexuals is not my judgement, just biblical teaching.

Why can't people think for themselves?

It's called moral beliefs and a foundation based on faith in God.

So, why do we have to all listen to God?  If God is that much of a bigot, I don't want to listen to him.  Don't we have that choice?  

And remember, PEOPLE wrote the Bible.  Hell, if I was one of the poeple writing it, I would've declared Wednesday Free Taco Day! Tongue
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As for the poor, how could they have adequate access to pornography, Hoosier?  They can't afford a computer or internet access, so, how are they to view porn?  I suppose you think they should just hump a pillow and think of England.

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StatesRights
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« Reply #59 on: July 02, 2004, 11:01:42 am »
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I oppose gay marriage, though I think it should be put on the ballot of the states. I do not think you should be exiled, executed or whatever you want to say I believe. My opinions on this subject have been expressed on this forum yet you fail to respect them. You do what you want but I know from my religious faith that the act you are committing is wrong, plain and simple. That doesn't mean you're a bad person or evil. Simply misguided is all.


 

Nor do I think the evangelicals, America's equal to the Taliban, ought to necessarily be shipped to Gitmo when the Dems take power in January.  I know there is some discussion about that on the Left, but for now, I disagree.  Sort of.

Your religious "faith" is a mockery, and an insult to God.  Who do you think you are -- to act as God by being the judge and jury over any group of people?  Who elevated you to that lofty position?  It is a sacrilege, it is arrogant, and it wrong for you to make such outrageous and preposterous claims.  But I will pray for you...

- Alfie



Hey, I'm just following the teachings of the bible. If you choose not to accept that, well that's your own idea. However wrong you are. My opinion of homosexuals is not my judgement, just biblical teaching.

Why can't people think for themselves?

It's called moral beliefs and a foundation based on faith in God.

So, why do we have to all listen to God?  If God is that much of a bigot, I don't want to listen to him.  Don't we have that choice?  

And remember, PEOPLE wrote the Bible.  Hell, if I was one of the poeple writing it, I would've declared Wednesday Free Taco Day! Tongue

Yes we do have to listen to God if you claim to be a Christian. God is not a bigot at all. Yes, we all have a choice. It's called free will but if you do the wrong thing mind you, their are consequences. The bible was written by man inspired by God and is free of error.
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« Reply #60 on: July 02, 2004, 03:34:30 pm »
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I oppose gay marriage, though I think it should be put on the ballot of the states. I do not think you should be exiled, executed or whatever you want to say I believe. My opinions on this subject have been expressed on this forum yet you fail to respect them. You do what you want but I know from my religious faith that the act you are committing is wrong, plain and simple. That doesn't mean you're a bad person or evil. Simply misguided is all.


 

Nor do I think the evangelicals, America's equal to the Taliban, ought to necessarily be shipped to Gitmo when the Dems take power in January.  I know there is some discussion about that on the Left, but for now, I disagree.  Sort of.

Your religious "faith" is a mockery, and an insult to God.  Who do you think you are -- to act as God by being the judge and jury over any group of people?  Who elevated you to that lofty position?  It is a sacrilege, it is arrogant, and it wrong for you to make such outrageous and preposterous claims.  But I will pray for you...

- Alfie



Hey, I'm just following the teachings of the bible. If you choose not to accept that, well that's your own idea. However wrong you are. My opinion of homosexuals is not my judgement, just biblical teaching.

Why can't people think for themselves?

It's called moral beliefs and a foundation based on faith in God.

So, why do we have to all listen to God?  If God is that much of a bigot, I don't want to listen to him.  Don't we have that choice?  

And remember, PEOPLE wrote the Bible.  Hell, if I was one of the poeple writing it, I would've declared Wednesday Free Taco Day! Tongue

Yes we do have to listen to God if you claim to be a Christian. God is not a bigot at all. Yes, we all have a choice. It's called free will but if you do the wrong thing mind you, their are consequences. The bible was written by man inspired by God and is free of error.

Well, I'm not a Christian, and I'm sure many gay people are not either.  We have absolutely ZERO obligation to listen to anyone's else's morals.  
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As for the poor, how could they have adequate access to pornography, Hoosier?  They can't afford a computer or internet access, so, how are they to view porn?  I suppose you think they should just hump a pillow and think of England.

^ Yes... we banned this person
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« Reply #61 on: July 02, 2004, 10:47:23 pm »
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Jesus, I heard the poll on the news.  I don't have the exact link, I just found a general question that implicates similar sentiments among the American populace.


Sorry.  Hearsay simply is not admissible.  Get on google and FIND IT, or withdraw the comment.  I don't like being this way, but data, folks, is data.



Replace 'rejecting homosexuality in society" or whatever, with what my poll says.  Do in your mind.

Finding a specific poll when all I can do is paraphrase the wording is near impossible.  I might not even know it if I did manage to find it

Fair enough.  But do you see what I'm pointing out?  That America rejects Gay marriage is understandable to me -- it really is.  But the suggestion that somehow we are to be exiled is very different.



- Alfie


I oppose gay marriage, though I think it should be put on the ballot of the states. I do not think you should be exiled, executed or whatever you want to say I believe. My opinions on this subject have been expressed on this forum yet you fail to respect them. You do what you want but I know from my religious faith that the act you are committing is wrong, plain and simple. That doesn't mean you're a bad person or evil. Simply misguided is all.

Misguided! Thats hot coming from someone who bases there perspective social issues on their religion. Religion should play no part. It is you my friend who is thus misguided.
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StatesRights
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« Reply #62 on: July 03, 2004, 01:25:39 am »
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Jesus, I heard the poll on the news.  I don't have the exact link, I just found a general question that implicates similar sentiments among the American populace.


Sorry.  Hearsay simply is not admissible.  Get on google and FIND IT, or withdraw the comment.  I don't like being this way, but data, folks, is data.



Replace 'rejecting homosexuality in society" or whatever, with what my poll says.  Do in your mind.

Finding a specific poll when all I can do is paraphrase the wording is near impossible.  I might not even know it if I did manage to find it

Fair enough.  But do you see what I'm pointing out?  That America rejects Gay marriage is understandable to me -- it really is.  But the suggestion that somehow we are to be exiled is very different.



- Alfie


I oppose gay marriage, though I think it should be put on the ballot of the states. I do not think you should be exiled, executed or whatever you want to say I believe. My opinions on this subject have been expressed on this forum yet you fail to respect them. You do what you want but I know from my religious faith that the act you are committing is wrong, plain and simple. That doesn't mean you're a bad person or evil. Simply misguided is all.

Misguided! Thats hot coming from someone who bases there perspective social issues on their religion. Religion should play no part. It is you my friend who is thus misguided.

Religion is one of the most important aspects of any persons life.
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« Reply #63 on: July 03, 2004, 01:49:52 am »
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Religion is one of the most important aspects of any persons life.

Again, thats just a personal opinion based on the fact that you are religious yourself... which I respect.

However it is not 'one of the most important aspects of any persons life'. That is for one to decide by yourself. It may be very important to you, but it plays absolutely no role in my life.
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« Reply #64 on: July 03, 2004, 09:46:55 am »
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I oppose gay marriage, though I think it should be put on the ballot of the states. I do not think you should be exiled, executed or whatever you want to say I believe. My opinions on this subject have been expressed on this forum yet you fail to respect them. You do what you want but I know from my religious faith that the act you are committing is wrong, plain and simple. That doesn't mean you're a bad person or evil. Simply misguided is all.


 

Nor do I think the evangelicals, America's equal to the Taliban, ought to necessarily be shipped to Gitmo when the Dems take power in January.  I know there is some discussion about that on the Left, but for now, I disagree.  Sort of.

Your religious "faith" is a mockery, and an insult to God.  Who do you think you are -- to act as God by being the judge and jury over any group of people?  Who elevated you to that lofty position?  It is a sacrilege, it is arrogant, and it wrong for you to make such outrageous and preposterous claims.  But I will pray for you...

- Alfie



Hey, I'm just following the teachings of the bible. If you choose not to accept that, well that's your own idea. However wrong you are. My opinion of homosexuals is not my judgement, just biblical teaching.

Why can't people think for themselves?

It's called moral beliefs and a foundation based on faith in God.

So, why do we have to all listen to God?  If God is that much of a bigot, I don't want to listen to him.  Don't we have that choice?  

And remember, PEOPLE wrote the Bible.  Hell, if I was one of the poeple writing it, I would've declared Wednesday Free Taco Day! Tongue

Yes we do have to listen to God if you claim to be a Christian. God is not a bigot at all. Yes, we all have a choice. It's called free will but if you do the wrong thing mind you, their are consequences. The bible was written by man inspired by God and is free of error.

How do you know God is not a bigot? Have you met him? If he is prejudiced against gays (as you seem to think he is) he may be a bigot.
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« Reply #65 on: July 03, 2004, 10:18:29 am »
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1-3, Southerners up for reeleciton.
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StatesRights
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« Reply #66 on: July 03, 2004, 11:08:12 am »
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I oppose gay marriage, though I think it should be put on the ballot of the states. I do not think you should be exiled, executed or whatever you want to say I believe. My opinions on this subject have been expressed on this forum yet you fail to respect them. You do what you want but I know from my religious faith that the act you are committing is wrong, plain and simple. That doesn't mean you're a bad person or evil. Simply misguided is all.


 

Nor do I think the evangelicals, America's equal to the Taliban, ought to necessarily be shipped to Gitmo when the Dems take power in January.  I know there is some discussion about that on the Left, but for now, I disagree.  Sort of.

Your religious "faith" is a mockery, and an insult to God.  Who do you think you are -- to act as God by being the judge and jury over any group of people?  Who elevated you to that lofty position?  It is a sacrilege, it is arrogant, and it wrong for you to make such outrageous and preposterous claims.  But I will pray for you...

- Alfie



Hey, I'm just following the teachings of the bible. If you choose not to accept that, well that's your own idea. However wrong you are. My opinion of homosexuals is not my judgement, just biblical teaching.

Why can't people think for themselves?

It's called moral beliefs and a foundation based on faith in God.

So, why do we have to all listen to God?  If God is that much of a bigot, I don't want to listen to him.  Don't we have that choice?  

And remember, PEOPLE wrote the Bible.  Hell, if I was one of the poeple writing it, I would've declared Wednesday Free Taco Day! Tongue

Yes we do have to listen to God if you claim to be a Christian. God is not a bigot at all. Yes, we all have a choice. It's called free will but if you do the wrong thing mind you, their are consequences. The bible was written by man inspired by God and is free of error.

How do you know God is not a bigot? Have you met him? If he is prejudiced against gays (as you seem to think he is) he may be a bigot.

God is not against the people. He is against the act. A big difference. When you actually care enough, pick up a bible and read what it says about the matter.
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« Reply #67 on: July 03, 2004, 03:38:30 pm »
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If Barry Goldwater was still with us hed have voted against it. It was a strange enigma of his, a staunch conservative, a scary one at that too, yet he employed blacks in his department store and stood up for gay rights giving as a different, but more powerful argument for gay rights and human rights than the traditional liberal one. I've only begun reading about 'Bogeyman Barry', he is really interesting....
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« Reply #68 on: July 04, 2004, 12:47:14 am »
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If Barry Goldwater was still with us hed have voted against it. It was a strange enigma of his, a staunch conservative, a scary one at that too, yet he employed blacks in his department store and stood up for gay rights giving as a different, but more powerful argument for gay rights and human rights than the traditional liberal one. I've only begun reading about 'Bogeyman Barry', he is really interesting....

Nothing enigmatic about it - Goldwater was pretty much a libertarian or classical Liberal.  
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« Reply #69 on: July 05, 2004, 10:21:28 am »
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Barry is not often given the credit he deserved.  Mostly because his movement was hijacked.
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« Reply #70 on: July 05, 2004, 11:20:55 am »
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Lots of religious discussion going on. Kinda hard to convince me your religion is the right one though - pretty much every holy book says something to the degree "This is the truth, and our God is the real God". I can't really accept any of them, because none of them have proof that they are right. What also complicates the issue is that pretty much any holy book can be interpreted in many ways(some Christians take the Bible literally, some don't), so I can't see a holy book as being flawless if it can be interpreted in many ways. A flawless book could only have one interpretation, because it would account for human interpretation by saying "this book shall be interpreted this way". Faith must be a nice thing to have, but I just have a hard time accepting something unproveable that is often drilled into people's heads from the time they are too young to even think for themselves.
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« Reply #71 on: July 05, 2004, 11:36:10 am »
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Lots of religious discussion going on. Kinda hard to convince me your religion is the right one though - pretty much every holy book says something to the degree "This is the truth, and our God is the real God". I can't really accept any of them, because none of them have proof that they are right. What also complicates the issue is that pretty much any holy book can be interpreted in many ways(some Christians take the Bible literally, some don't), so I can't see a holy book as being flawless if it can be interpreted in many ways. A flawless book could only have one interpretation, because it would account for human interpretation by saying "this book shall be interpreted this way". Faith must be a nice thing to have, but I just have a hard time accepting something unproveable that is often drilled into people's heads from the time they are too young to even think for themselves.


The bible does say their is only one interpretation. Exactly what is written.
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« Reply #72 on: July 05, 2004, 04:38:12 pm »
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Lots of religious discussion going on. Kinda hard to convince me your religion is the right one though - pretty much every holy book says something to the degree "This is the truth, and our God is the real God". I can't really accept any of them, because none of them have proof that they are right. What also complicates the issue is that pretty much any holy book can be interpreted in many ways(some Christians take the Bible literally, some don't), so I can't see a holy book as being flawless if it can be interpreted in many ways. A flawless book could only have one interpretation, because it would account for human interpretation by saying "this book shall be interpreted this way". Faith must be a nice thing to have, but I just have a hard time accepting something unproveable that is often drilled into people's heads from the time they are too young to even think for themselves.


The bible does say their is only one interpretation. Exactly what is written.

You don't come off as a literalist, SSN. I'm sure there's something in the Bible that's written that you wouldn't agree with a literal interpetation on. I'm not an expert on the Bible, so I can't think of an exact thing that I think you'd disagree with, but would you say the world was created 5000-6000 years ago, like pure literalists do?
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« Reply #73 on: July 05, 2004, 05:01:40 pm »
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Lots of religious discussion going on. Kinda hard to convince me your religion is the right one though - pretty much every holy book says something to the degree "This is the truth, and our God is the real God". I can't really accept any of them, because none of them have proof that they are right. What also complicates the issue is that pretty much any holy book can be interpreted in many ways(some Christians take the Bible literally, some don't), so I can't see a holy book as being flawless if it can be interpreted in many ways. A flawless book could only have one interpretation, because it would account for human interpretation by saying "this book shall be interpreted this way". Faith must be a nice thing to have, but I just have a hard time accepting something unproveable that is often drilled into people's heads from the time they are too young to even think for themselves.


The bible does say their is only one interpretation. Exactly what is written.

You don't come off as a literalist, SSN. I'm sure there's something in the Bible that's written that you wouldn't agree with a literal interpetation on. I'm not an expert on the Bible, so I can't think of an exact thing that I think you'd disagree with, but would you say the world was created 5000-6000 years ago, like pure literalists do?

I believe thier mathematics is off. I broke down generation by generation and it is closer to 15-20,000 years.
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IDS Judicial Overlord John Dibble
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« Reply #74 on: July 05, 2004, 06:52:10 pm »
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Lots of religious discussion going on. Kinda hard to convince me your religion is the right one though - pretty much every holy book says something to the degree "This is the truth, and our God is the real God". I can't really accept any of them, because none of them have proof that they are right. What also complicates the issue is that pretty much any holy book can be interpreted in many ways(some Christians take the Bible literally, some don't), so I can't see a holy book as being flawless if it can be interpreted in many ways. A flawless book could only have one interpretation, because it would account for human interpretation by saying "this book shall be interpreted this way". Faith must be a nice thing to have, but I just have a hard time accepting something unproveable that is often drilled into people's heads from the time they are too young to even think for themselves.


The bible does say their is only one interpretation. Exactly what is written.

You don't come off as a literalist, SSN. I'm sure there's something in the Bible that's written that you wouldn't agree with a literal interpetation on. I'm not an expert on the Bible, so I can't think of an exact thing that I think you'd disagree with, but would you say the world was created 5000-6000 years ago, like pure literalists do?

I believe thier mathematics is off. I broke down generation by generation and it is closer to 15-20,000 years.

Well, I'll take your word for it(5-6000 is just what I heard), but my question is, do you believe it?
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