Gay Marriage Amendment

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I think John Kerry will not hinder the progress by fighting against the rulings that these courts make. That's his apathetic attitude on the issue.

Good! Lets let the activist judges keep getting out of control.

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And again Badnariks chances of winning go from .5% down to .4%. lol

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Anyone who disliked gay marriage was either already voting for Bush or was voting for Badnarik despite it.

But protecting the Constitution from these misadventures might win the Libertarian quite a few votes from people inclined to that position, gay and straight.  I mean, how can gay people vote for Bush after this, and how can they be very thrilled about Kerry?  I suspect the Libertarians are in a position to make some headway among the gay demographic - who are the most affluent minority and tend to be both fiscally and socially inclined toward the libertarian perspective.

The question would be easily answered if the issue of gay marriage was put on the ballot in all 50 states. Much like the issue of abortion.

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Neither abortion nor gay marriage should be ballot issues.  Gay marriage is a private contract, it should always be allowed privately.  Abortion is murder, a human rights issue, it should never be allowed.  Neither should be up for the ballot because these are issues of rights.

So should homosexuals be allowed to enter a church and get married? Should they recieve the same benefits as a male and female marriage?

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Neither abortion nor gay marriage should be ballot issues.  Gay marriage is a private contract, it should always be allowed privately.  Abortion is murder, a human rights issue, it should never be allowed.  Neither should be up for the ballot because these are issues of rights.

So should homosexuals be allowed to enter a church and get married? Should they recieve the same benefits as a male and female marriage?

the views of me and most gay marriage supporters:

1-Completely up to the church.
2-yes

At the cost of a health care cost hike.

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You know, we could probably keep health care costs down if we'd stop letting blacks get insurance.

Maybe we should cut off the women, too.

Sounds like race baiting to me. I shouldn't even justify a response to that. So I'll ignore that post. Gay relationships are not natural. They should not cost me $ out of my pocket. They have a higher rate of STDs too.

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Hets, from what I see of your posts, have a higher rate of mental illness and mental retardation.

If you wish to get snippy about paying for things, why should I, a person with no kids, pay for the education of the many little nippers that "breeders" plop out with too must regularity?  But I know your "issue" on this subject isn't money: it's hatred and bigotry.

Got 'yo number.  You do know that, right?

Good.

- Alfie

Whatever you say. Troll. Call it hatred if you wish. Of course in your liberal mind any dissent is considered racism. But why argue with a troll.

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No, not true.  Dissent, however defined, is a good thing -- at least when it is intelligent and reasonable.  It is when people become blind to their hatred of others that it becomes rather sad and dreary.

I just think that very few Americans share your frothingly radical, bitter view of the world, that's all.  From equality to war, you are on the fringe.  Not my fault.

- igwt

Listen troll. I am far on the "edge" I am fairly moderate. My religious beliefs show me that homosexuality is clearly an abomination and 2000 years of civilized society have shown that thought to be correct. Whether you like that fact or not. Call me whatever name you want. I personally do not give three craps. I have no bitter view of the world. I have a cynical view of the world as I do not trust 90% of Europe and almost all of Asia. They are in COMPETITION with us. They do not want America to stand as it is. It's those like you who would rather b*tch and moan about a few inconviences in your life then worry about the majority of Americans safety. Get over yourself already. If people with views such as yourself had been the majority in the second world war we never would have won and the national anthem would be Deutchland Uber Alles.  You are the first one to throw out "racist" "bigot" and that is not reasonable dissent. That is idiocy. Plain and simple.

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That is why 60+% of America agree with me. But I digress.

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They are in competition to destroy us as a nation. Both economically and militarily. The UN is anti US.

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This war is comparable to World War 2. But I guess you would prefer to have your Neville Chamberlain become president.

"We can not fight communism alone." -John Kerry 1971

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I think the latest poll had 51% of Americans rejecting homosexuality in society.  Basically tied with the MoE.  Hardly the fringe though.

I guess 51% of Americans are "racist" "bigots" like me for holding a different opinion.

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I think the latest poll had 51% of Americans rejecting homosexuality in society.  Basically tied with the MoE.  Hardly the fringe though.

Got a documented cite?  And please, don't even try to pass of some lunatic "Family Research Council" crap.

Time did a poll on that in 1999.

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Alfie here is another good thread for you. Now go criticize someone else if you can handle it.

http://www.uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=5124;start=0#msg131603

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Jesus, I heard the poll on the news.  I don't have the exact link, I just found a general question that implicates similar sentiments among the American populace.

Sorry.  Hearsay simply is not admissible.  Get on google and FIND IT, or withdraw the comment.  I don't like being this way, but data, folks, is data.

The troll demands it Lunar. lol I love this 'dude'.

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Jesus, I heard the poll on the news.  I don't have the exact link, I just found a general question that implicates similar sentiments among the American populace.

Sorry.  Hearsay simply is not admissible.  Get on google and FIND IT, or withdraw the comment.  I don't like being this way, but data, folks, is data.

Replace 'rejecting homosexuality in society" or whatever, with what my poll says.  Do in your mind.

Finding a specific poll when all I can do is paraphrase the wording is near impossible.  I might not even know it if I did manage to find it

Fair enough.  But do you see what I'm pointing out?  That America rejects Gay marriage is understandable to me -- it really is.  But the suggestion that somehow we are to be exiled is very different.



- Alfie

I oppose gay marriage, though I think it should be put on the ballot of the states. I do not think you should be exiled, executed or whatever you want to say I believe. My opinions on this subject have been expressed on this forum yet you fail to respect them. You do what you want but I know from my religious faith that the act you are committing is wrong, plain and simple. That doesn't mean you're a bad person or evil. Simply misguided is all.

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Nor do I think the evangelicals, America's equal to the Taliban, ought to necessarily be shipped to Gitmo when the Dems take power in January.  I know there is some discussion about that on the Left, but for now, I disagree.  Sort of.

Your religious "faith" is a mockery, and an insult to God.  Who do you think you are -- to act as God by being the judge and jury over any group of people?  Who elevated you to that lofty position?  It is a sacrilege, it is arrogant, and it wrong for you to make such outrageous and preposterous claims.  But I will pray for you...

- Alfie

Hey, I'm just following the teachings of the bible. If you choose not to accept that, well that's your own idea. However wrong you are. My opinion of homosexuals is not my judgement, just biblical teaching.

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I think John Kerry will not hinder the progress by fighting against the rulings that these courts make. That's his apathetic attitude on the issue.

Good! Lets let the activist judges keep getting out of control.

You mean like ones who over-ride state's rights in an election case by a 5-4 ruling?  Yeah, I'll be pefectly happy if someone can keep those 5 SCOTUS members in control.

That is foolish. Quit whining about 2000. Its over get over it. Your boy didn't win. The court did need to step in. What were we just going to recount until November of this year? lol

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StatesRights, I'd have thought, in principle, you would be AGAINST the amendment, as it violates...well states rights in regards to marriage law! Alabama will never always take a different course from Vermont and vice versa. If you really believe in states rights, surely each states right to determine their marriage law, as liberal or as conservative as it may be, should have your full support? Oh and with regards to civilisation, homosexuality was fairly common in Ancient Greece and Rome (check out a few painted Greek vases in the British Museum) and the Christian churches (Catholic and Orthodox) didn't come out against it doctrinally until the 1200's as the world plunged into the dark ages. During the Enlightenment, it was also common in the Italian city states, with Machiavelli, Michaelangelo, Da Vinci and many more thinkers, statesmen and artists were notably bi-sexual. And today? Well if artists such as David Hockney and actors like Sir Ian McKellan really bother you, then you should remove yourself from both modern and classical culture straight away! No doubt you'll label me as a troll, but you seem pretty used to throwing labels at people already.

I have said on many occassions that I am against this amendment and for leaving it up for the states to decide. I know the history of homosexuality but I also know it is forbidden in both the New and Old Testament. I must follow my beliefs on that. I have never heard of either Hockney or McKellan so I can't comment there. I will not label you as a troll as I believe you are excellent poster and a good addition to the forum. Those who have earned the label "troll" earned it. You are far far above a troll. So I apologize to you if I came off that way.

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Nor do I think the evangelicals, America's equal to the Taliban, ought to necessarily be shipped to Gitmo when the Dems take power in January.  I know there is some discussion about that on the Left, but for now, I disagree.  Sort of.

Your religious "faith" is a mockery, and an insult to God.  Who do you think you are -- to act as God by being the judge and jury over any group of people?  Who elevated you to that lofty position?  It is a sacrilege, it is arrogant, and it wrong for you to make such outrageous and preposterous claims.  But I will pray for you...

- Alfie

Hey, I'm just following the teachings of the bible. If you choose not to accept that, well that's your own idea. However wrong you are. My opinion of homosexuals is not my judgement, just biblical teaching.

Why can't people think for themselves?

It's called moral beliefs and a foundation based on faith in God.

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Apologies States Rights for just presuming your support of the amendment. At least you stick by your principles on the rights of states. However I still believe you are totally and utterly wrong, but thats the society we have. I look forward to more confrontations with you!

Also, I must add. Even though I do not believe homosexuality to be right I would never deny those who practice such things the right to existence. That would go against my views on liberty and freedom as well.

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Nor do I think the evangelicals, America's equal to the Taliban, ought to necessarily be shipped to Gitmo when the Dems take power in January.  I know there is some discussion about that on the Left, but for now, I disagree.  Sort of.

Your religious "faith" is a mockery, and an insult to God.  Who do you think you are -- to act as God by being the judge and jury over any group of people?  Who elevated you to that lofty position?  It is a sacrilege, it is arrogant, and it wrong for you to make such outrageous and preposterous claims.  But I will pray for you...

- Alfie

Hey, I'm just following the teachings of the bible. If you choose not to accept that, well that's your own idea. However wrong you are. My opinion of homosexuals is not my judgement, just biblical teaching.

Why can't people think for themselves?

It's called moral beliefs and a foundation based on faith in God.

So, why do we have to all listen to God?  If God is that much of a bigot, I don't want to listen to him.  Don't we have that choice?  

And remember, PEOPLE wrote the Bible.  Hell, if I was one of the poeple writing it, I would've declared Wednesday Free Taco Day!

Yes we do have to listen to God if you claim to be a Christian. God is not a bigot at all. Yes, we all have a choice. It's called free will but if you do the wrong thing mind you, their are consequences. The bible was written by man inspired by God and is free of error.

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Jesus, I heard the poll on the news.  I don't have the exact link, I just found a general question that implicates similar sentiments among the American populace.

Sorry.  Hearsay simply is not admissible.  Get on google and FIND IT, or withdraw the comment.  I don't like being this way, but data, folks, is data.

Replace 'rejecting homosexuality in society" or whatever, with what my poll says.  Do in your mind.

Finding a specific poll when all I can do is paraphrase the wording is near impossible.  I might not even know it if I did manage to find it

Fair enough.  But do you see what I'm pointing out?  That America rejects Gay marriage is understandable to me -- it really is.  But the suggestion that somehow we are to be exiled is very different.



- Alfie

I oppose gay marriage, though I think it should be put on the ballot of the states. I do not think you should be exiled, executed or whatever you want to say I believe. My opinions on this subject have been expressed on this forum yet you fail to respect them. You do what you want but I know from my religious faith that the act you are committing is wrong, plain and simple. That doesn't mean you're a bad person or evil. Simply misguided is all.

Misguided! Thats hot coming from someone who bases there perspective social issues on their religion. Religion should play no part. It is you my friend who is thus misguided.

Religion is one of the most important aspects of any persons life.

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Nor do I think the evangelicals, America's equal to the Taliban, ought to necessarily be shipped to Gitmo when the Dems take power in January.  I know there is some discussion about that on the Left, but for now, I disagree.  Sort of.

Your religious "faith" is a mockery, and an insult to God.  Who do you think you are -- to act as God by being the judge and jury over any group of people?  Who elevated you to that lofty position?  It is a sacrilege, it is arrogant, and it wrong for you to make such outrageous and preposterous claims.  But I will pray for you...

- Alfie

Hey, I'm just following the teachings of the bible. If you choose not to accept that, well that's your own idea. However wrong you are. My opinion of homosexuals is not my judgement, just biblical teaching.

Why can't people think for themselves?

It's called moral beliefs and a foundation based on faith in God.

So, why do we have to all listen to God?  If God is that much of a bigot, I don't want to listen to him.  Don't we have that choice?  

And remember, PEOPLE wrote the Bible.  Hell, if I was one of the poeple writing it, I would've declared Wednesday Free Taco Day!

Yes we do have to listen to God if you claim to be a Christian. God is not a bigot at all. Yes, we all have a choice. It's called free will but if you do the wrong thing mind you, their are consequences. The bible was written by man inspired by God and is free of error.

How do you know God is not a bigot? Have you met him? If he is prejudiced against gays (as you seem to think he is) he may be a bigot.

God is not against the people. He is against the act. A big difference. When you actually care enough, pick up a bible and read what it says about the matter.

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Lots of religious discussion going on. Kinda hard to convince me your religion is the right one though - pretty much every holy book says something to the degree "This is the truth, and our God is the real God". I can't really accept any of them, because none of them have proof that they are right. What also complicates the issue is that pretty much any holy book can be interpreted in many ways(some Christians take the Bible literally, some don't), so I can't see a holy book as being flawless if it can be interpreted in many ways. A flawless book could only have one interpretation, because it would account for human interpretation by saying "this book shall be interpreted this way". Faith must be a nice thing to have, but I just have a hard time accepting something unproveable that is often drilled into people's heads from the time they are too young to even think for themselves.

The bible does say their is only one interpretation. Exactly what is written.

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Lots of religious discussion going on. Kinda hard to convince me your religion is the right one though - pretty much every holy book says something to the degree "This is the truth, and our God is the real God". I can't really accept any of them, because none of them have proof that they are right. What also complicates the issue is that pretty much any holy book can be interpreted in many ways(some Christians take the Bible literally, some don't), so I can't see a holy book as being flawless if it can be interpreted in many ways. A flawless book could only have one interpretation, because it would account for human interpretation by saying "this book shall be interpreted this way". Faith must be a nice thing to have, but I just have a hard time accepting something unproveable that is often drilled into people's heads from the time they are too young to even think for themselves.

The bible does say their is only one interpretation. Exactly what is written.

You don't come off as a literalist, SSN. I'm sure there's something in the Bible that's written that you wouldn't agree with a literal interpetation on. I'm not an expert on the Bible, so I can't think of an exact thing that I think you'd disagree with, but would you say the world was created 5000-6000 years ago, like pure literalists do?

I believe thier mathematics is off. I broke down generation by generation and it is closer to 15-20,000 years.

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Lots of religious discussion going on. Kinda hard to convince me your religion is the right one though - pretty much every holy book says something to the degree "This is the truth, and our God is the real God". I can't really accept any of them, because none of them have proof that they are right. What also complicates the issue is that pretty much any holy book can be interpreted in many ways(some Christians take the Bible literally, some don't), so I can't see a holy book as being flawless if it can be interpreted in many ways. A flawless book could only have one interpretation, because it would account for human interpretation by saying "this book shall be interpreted this way". Faith must be a nice thing to have, but I just have a hard time accepting something unproveable that is often drilled into people's heads from the time they are too young to even think for themselves.

The bible does say their is only one interpretation. Exactly what is written.

You don't come off as a literalist, SSN. I'm sure there's something in the Bible that's written that you wouldn't agree with a literal interpetation on. I'm not an expert on the Bible, so I can't think of an exact thing that I think you'd disagree with, but would you say the world was created 5000-6000 years ago, like pure literalists do?

I believe thier mathematics is off. I broke down generation by generation and it is closer to 15-20,000 years.

Well, I'll take your word for it(5-6000 is just what I heard), but my question is, do you believe it?

I believe that life may be that old yes. The bible actually does not mention when the universe was created time wise. Of course 7 days could be 7 Million years. The bible says, "A day in the life of God is a eternity to mankind"