Effect of Kerry's "stuck in Iraq" comment on congressional races?

[mgrossbe]

The major effect imo is not that it will sway a voter one way or another most people have their minds made up about kerry. What i think will really matter is that it eats up news time. Look at all the shows this afternoon they have been obessed with this. If the days headline is not the second worse month in iraq it helps the reps. if this had not happen all we would see is editorials and stories about the 103 soldiers who have died clearly hurting the gop. Thus, this may not help or hurt anyone on the topic itself it will however help the gop in this way.

[phk]

Zero.

[TexasGurl]

And they keep lowering the standards to fill recruitment quotas

Do you have a source for this? All the folks I stay in touch with from my military days tell me quite the reverse. The cost of all the training and the equipment is so high these days that the same functional illiterates that were made cannon fodder in Vietnam are no longer recruited. Most services require a high school diploma now not even a GED. To re-enlist in the Navy past the eight year point now requires some college courses. A ruling that would force all E-8s and above to have a bachelor's degree was just recently recinded. It is not dead they just want to give more time for current E-7s to get more college credits. If you have information to the contrary I would really like to study it.

http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,78111,00.html?ESRC=eb.nl

[JSojourner]

[/quote]
John McCain should go hide in the Hanoi Hilton. Hes a scumbag. American Legion president obviously doesnt see how its misconstrued. John Kerry fought in Vietnam, McCain surrendered to the enemy. I think we know who had better war skills. Too bad thats not politically correct.
[/quote]

First, I support John Kerry 100%.  As I iterate in another thread about this topic, the AP had his speech BEFORE he gave it and the context of the original document is clear.  He meant no insult to the troops.  Rather, to Bush and company.

But the above comment about John McCain is absolutely unconscionable.  As a liberal Democrat, I don't like the man's conservatism.  But his "war skills" and his patriotism cannot be questioned.  Time in the Hanoi Hilton -- any amount of time -- was sheer hell.  To be there for so many years and not disgrace your country is nothing short of heroic.  I would be honored to my core to shake John McCain's hand.  Or that of ANY veteran, Republican or Democrat, Liberal or Conservative.  I hope you were just joking with the above remark.  I am new here, so I don't know everyone yet.

As for the recent rubarb over Kerry, in context, John Kerry was right on the money.  True enough, Republicans may be able to spin this to great effect...maybe not to the point of keeping the House...but enough to preserve seats in close districts that blue dogs might otherwise win. 

[AuH2O]

... attacks that always seem to come from those who never can be found to serve in war...

Does he just pretend that McCain and the head of the American Legion hasn't called him out on this?

John McCain should go hide in the Hanoi Hilton. Hes a scumbag. American Legion president obviously doesnt see how its misconstrued. John Kerry fought in Vietnam, McCain surrendered to the enemy. I think we know who had better war skills. Too bad thats not politically correct.

What a disgusting remark. You are a really sick person.

Just like John Kerry.

[Whacker77]

Boss Tweed, I think the % of dumbs is only higher here when a lot of Democrats post on this website.

[Conan]

First, I support John Kerry 100%.  As I iterate in another thread about this topic, the AP had his speech BEFORE he gave it and the context of the original document is clear.  He meant no insult to the troops.  Rather, to Bush and company.

But the above comment about John McCain is absolutely unconscionable.  As a liberal Democrat, I don't like the man's conservatism.  But his "war skills" and his patriotism cannot be questioned.  Time in the Hanoi Hilton -- any amount of time -- was sheer hell.  To be there for so many years and not disgrace your country is nothing short of heroic.  I would be honored to my core to shake John McCain's hand.  Or that of ANY veteran, Republican or Democrat, Liberal or Conservative.  I hope you were just joking with the above remark.  I am new here, so I don't know everyone yet.

As for the recent rubarb over Kerry, in context, John Kerry was right on the money.  True enough, Republicans may be able to spin this to great effect...maybe not to the point of keeping the House...but enough to preserve seats in close districts that blue dogs might otherwise win. 

My desired effect from that comment has come. Do I really believe in that comment? No, it doesnt even make sense. If John Kerry was a prisoner of war, that's what they would have said about him in 04 and today. Aside from that, John McCain as a veteran should know better and show integrity and not play politics at the expense of our armed forces and John Kerrys reputation.

[Sam Spade]

The major effect imo is not that it will sway a voter one way or another most people have their minds made up about kerry. What i think will really matter is that it eats up news time. Look at all the shows this afternoon they have been obessed with this. If the days headline is not the second worse month in iraq it helps the reps. if this had not happen all we would see is editorials and stories about the 103 soldiers who have died clearly hurting the gop. Thus, this may not help or hurt anyone on the topic itself it will however help the gop in this way.

This is one correct point as to why it could help Republicans.

One more possibiliity occurred to me an hour ago.  It is quite subtle, but potentially more damaging.

One of the reasons why I've continually said Nancy Pelosi's liberalism, Harry Reid's questionable land deals, etc. etc. have no traction is because most people in the country, not to mention the GOP base, don't know who are they are and don't care what they do.

Regardless of what Democrats might want to think or believe, John Kerry is essentially the figurehead of the Democratic party at this point and time and will be until the 2008 nominating convention.  Everyone knows who he is because of the Presidential run and the contentiousness of the last election.  I would say that maybe the only two figures in the Democratic party who can rival his name recognition are Bill and Hillary Clinton, with John Edwards running behind in 4th place.  So, as opposed to Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi, when John Kerry's name is mentioned, the first reaction of people is not going to be "Who?", but rather "What did he say?"

There is a parallel to this.  I would venture to say that John Kerry, much more than Bill Clinton and perhaps equal to Hillary is despised and hated in the base of the Republican party.  If Kerry continues to be as pigheaded about not apologizing, the goal of Republicans should be (and probably already is) to make Kerry's remarks into remarks of the Democratic party.  The reason why this is possible is because of the "figurehead" status I mentioned earlier. 

Simply put, it does not matter to whom the remarks were intended, the troops or Bush.  If they were intended at the troops, they piss off the military.  If they were intended at Bush, they piss off the Republican base.  Bush is already keenly trying to make this into a "me vs. Kerry, the Democratic opponent" type of ploy, while telling him to apologize to the troops.  This is a brilliant maneuver, in more ways than one.

Anyway, I readily admit that this is a theory and may never even see the light of day or impact anything, but if I were the Democrats, I would tell Kerry to apologize immediately and get the hell of the national stage, now and for good.

[Sam Spade]

My desired effect from that comment has come. Do I really believe in that comment? No, it doesnt even make sense. If John Kerry was a prisoner of war, that's what they would have said about him in 04 and today. Aside from that, John McCain as a veteran should know better and show integrity and not play politics at the expense of our armed forces and John Kerrys reputation.

Your performance on this thread has been quite disgusting, NJ Hack.

I would advise you to leave the thread and fight for another day because you're not helping yourself.

Learn the lesson John Kerry seems to not be learning. 

[Stranger in a strange land]

I doubt it will have much impact. It would be difficult for most ppl to have a lower opinion of Kerry than they already do.


That said, I wish Kerry had given the kind of response he gave to this two years ago! If he had the  swiftboat ad campign could have badly backfired on Bush.

[AuH2O]

You are despicable. You should do the world a favor and kill yourself ASAP.

I am not the republican here who tries to ruin peoples lives with lies and attacks on peoples reputations and credibility.

QUOTING JOHN KERRY BACK TO HIMSELF is not a smear. IT'S ON VIDEO.

[Gabu]

I don't think anyone cares about John Kerry anymore.  He no longer is the flag-bearer of the Democratic Party, much as he would like to continue that role.

[Conan]

You are despicable. You should do the world a favor and kill yourself ASAP.

I am not the republican here who tries to ruin peoples lives with lies and attacks on peoples reputations and credibility.

QUOTING JOHN KERRY BACK TO HIMSELF is not a smear. IT'S ON VIDEO
<edited by Dave>

YOu leave the forum. You dont know my families military history. I have never lied on this forum. I have no reason to. John McCain used to be a respectable man. Yes John Kerrys quote is on video and you know what he means. You are disgusting to use our troops and call them dumb by using this quote against John kerry.

[Sam Spade]

I don't think anyone cares about John Kerry anymore.  He no longer is the flag-bearer of the Democratic Party, much as he would like to continue that role.

I understand your point, but ask yourself this question?  Who is the flagbearer of the Democratic party, if not him?

Hillary Clinton?  I don't think so, not until she gets the nomination.  Bill Clinton?  Old news.  Al Gore?  Too much off the beaten path, though I think he was the flagbearer until 2004.  Who else?  No one knows who Harry Reid or Nancy Pelosi are.  Howard Dean?  haha.

When you run for President, you're the flagbearer until someone else does it, at least in the modern age, or someone else is so stupid to make himself well-known that he outclasses you (re. Newt Gingrich, 1995, for a bad example).  This is the reason why I have always suggested losing Presidential candidates get themselves out of the public eye, period.  Bush 41 did that.  Al Gore was smart and did that.  John Kerry hasn't learned.

Also, when you're President, you're no longer flagbearer until your replacement takes office.  Then, you're essentially nothing afterwards.

[J. J.]

If Kerry said, "I misspoke.  I meant to say, that if you don't study, and still get elected president, you could could get us in a quagmire like Iraq," then he wouldn't have a problem. 

Now, he's perpetuating the liberal stereotype.

[AuH2O]

You are despicable. You should do the world a favor and kill yourself ASAP.

I am not the republican here who tries to ruin peoples lives with lies and attacks on peoples reputations and credibility.

You are a sick, f'ed up piece of crap. QUOTING JOHN KERRY BACK TO HIMSELF is not a smear. IT'S ON VIDEO, you fool.

You are an idiot, a liar, and a disgusting excuse for a human being. You have no right to criticize anyone. You should leave the forum and go spread your vile hate on DU.

YOu leave the forum. You dont know my families military history. I have never lied on this forum. I have no reason to. John McCain used to be a respectable man. Yes John Kerrys quote is on video and you know what he means. You are disgusting to use our troops and call them dumb by using this quote against John kerry.

I don't want to know anything about your family. I would probably vomit, given how sick you are.

And you're dumb, too. Is it that hard to use something close to english? Of course, John Kerry can't... his original "rebuttal" was a bunch of mangled garbage that made no sense at all. But then, he did get bad grades at Yale, and his powerful family couldn't get him into a law school better than Boston College.

[Conan]

You are despicable. You should do the world a favor and kill yourself ASAP.

I am not the republican here who tries to ruin peoples lives with lies and attacks on peoples reputations and credibility.

You are a sick, f'ed up piece of crap. QUOTING JOHN KERRY BACK TO HIMSELF is not a smear. IT'S ON VIDEO, you fool.

You are an idiot, a liar, and a disgusting excuse for a human being. You have no right to criticize anyone. You should leave the forum and go spread your vile hate on DU.

YOu leave the forum. You dont know my families military history. I have never lied on this forum. I have no reason to. John McCain used to be a respectable man. Yes John Kerrys quote is on video and you know what he means. You are disgusting to use our troops and call them dumb by using this quote against John kerry.

I don't want to know anything about your family. I would probably vomit, given how sick you are.

And you're dumb, too. Is it that hard to use something close to english? Of course, John Kerry can't... his original "rebuttal" was a bunch of mangled garbage that made no sense at all. But then, he did get bad grades at Yale, and his powerful family couldn't get him into a law school better than Boston College.

Boston College is an exceptional school that you probably can't get into. He received a B average leaving Yale. Unfortunately, after graduating from Yale, Kerry had to go to Vietnam, and then when he returned was he able to finish school and go to BC. I dont care whether you believe me or not when we are on a political forum and use a tactic to arise specific responses to check hypocracy when I made that comment.

[AuH2O]

Well actually I probably would have gotten into Boston College, but I hate the northeast and so I didn't apply there or anywhere else in the north. What law school do you or did you go to? I hope it's ranked higher than 37, otherwise I'm not sure why you're talking. And I'm at GMU because it's conservative and they gave me a big scholarship, I could have gone to several schools ranked above BC, whereas GMU is a tick below (but rising).

[mgrossbe]

GMU has some great people to party with. When you guys were up here for the final four you had the best fans imo. Though i thought it was odd your assitant coaches were out at the bar with us. But still good people to drink with. Random thought. I went to IU for law school it was 31 when i graduated thats the year it matters hopefully you guys can move up(as long as it not at the expense of my alma mater). Either way i think kerry needs to go back to mass and stay out of the lime light for the rest of the campaign once he says something to the extent of apology not admitting that he was wrong for what he orginally was going to say but that he slipped up and he made a mistake. Americans are normally forgiving just atone. IMO still good news for the reps for no other reason than he distracts from real issues.

[nlm]

Aren't you the same chap that thought the "mothereffin' dynamite" had been set off by George Allen when he started making a big deal about some old Jim Webb fiction books? You seem to have a theme going here.

You suck at the internet. That was sarcasm. I even mentioned what my take was in that same post-- which was contrary to the sensationalism at the top.

So you are saying I'm taking you're words out of context by using the literal meaning as opposed to the obviously intended meaning in order to cast you in a light that is less than true? Kind of like what the GOP (and maybe you) is doing with John Kerry's latest gaff?

[Deano963]

"You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

What an asshole.  This is the guy who wanted to be president and yet he calls out troops stupid.  And yet, he refuses to apoligize.

I take it this thread is still going on b/c there are many, many morons on this forum who have still not done their homework and found out that all John Kerry did was badly screw up the punchline to a joke. He meant to say that Bush did terrible in school and is uneducated and that is why he screwed up Iraq so badly for anyone who may not have figured that out yet. He was not calling the troops stupid and anyone who still tries to say that that is what he meant is either a liar or a complete f-ing idiot.

[Deano963]

And they keep lowering the standards to fill recruitment quotas

Do you have a source for this? All the folks I stay in touch with from my military days tell me quite the reverse. The cost of all the training and the equipment is so high these days that the same functional illiterates that were made cannon fodder in Vietnam are no longer recruited. Most services require a high school diploma now not even a GED. To re-enlist in the Navy past the eight year point now requires some college courses. A ruling that would force all E-8s and above to have a bachelor's degree was just recently recinded. It is not dead they just want to give more time for current E-7s to get more college credits. If you have information to the contrary I would really like to study it.

You are grossly , grossly misinformed. The military and the Army and Marines in particular have drastically lowered their admissions standards. They've lowered the minimum ASVAB score required to join in order to meet recruitment quotas b/c no one wants to enlist with the Iraq War going on so they have to make it so that mildly mentally retarded people can literally join up. They've also canned a few old rules in the past that prevented enlistment such as people having tatoos on their face or neck or certain criminal or drug offenses.

[Smash255]

It sounds bad, but tht was due to how it was phasphed.  He was basically criticizng Bush's intelligence and meant to say "get us into Iraq".  came across bad and he could have handled the criticism a little better, but it was never met to be an attack on the intelligence of our military, it was meant to be an attack on Bush for getting us into the Iraq debacle.

[So the Heroes Fall]

Kerry's not on the ballot anywhere, so no effect. I wonder if he'll still be at the rally for Walz I'm going to tommorow though.

[Nym90]

Kerry's not on the ballot, and there are no competitive races in Massachusetts. It'll have no effect. No one in Virginia or Tennessee cares about John Kerry nowadays.