Stupid argument....

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

....when all these people say people in the South/Midwest voting Republican should be voting Democratic cause it's in their interest.  Although this may be nice for Dems to hear sometimes, how do you explain Hollywood?  They're in loaded and they all vote for Democrats that will raise their taxes.  I really don't think America votes for individual interest like it used to. 

I can relate personally.  A reason I vote liberal is b/c of social issues.  Personally, I think abortion is wrong, I am not gay nor plan to be gay, I am not religious but far from an atheist (if that makes sense).  If you knew how I personally felt about certain things, you'd think I vote GOP.  But when it comes down to it, I'm really voting for others' interests when it comes to social issues. 

[John Dibble]

I also hate that argument - people need to stop telling other people what they think and what their interests are. However, I disagree with you on people not voting for their individual interests. They still do, and they always do - it's just a matter of priorities. For me my freedom is a top priority, which means I will support allowing things that I don't like and that I don't think people should be doing(so long as they don't harm others). By respecting the freedom of others it is my view they will respect my freedom to do things they might dislike. So while it appears I'm voting for other's interests it's only a means to an end to get what I want.

[MODU]

As far as voting on issues, it is hard when the political field only allows you to really choose between candidate A or B.  If you had at least one more choice, and people voted based on the issues, you would see a vastly different political environment right now.

[Joe Republic]

Believe me, no argument will ever be as stupid as this one.

Anyway, you'll quite often find that many people don't vote for people based on issues at all, but superficial things like how they look, their general personality.  It's a shame really.

[bullmoose88]

Believe me, no argument will ever be as stupid as this one.

Anyway, you'll quite often find that many people don't vote for people based on issues at all, but superficial things like how they look, their general personality.  It's a shame really.

May you be castrated for resurrecting that thread.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

Believe me, no argument will ever be as stupid as this one.

Anyway, you'll quite often find that many people don't vote for people based on issues at all, but superficial things like how they look, their general personality.  It's a shame really.

May you be castrated for resurrecting that thread.

Let me handle that. *takes out castration knife*

[Colin]

*takes out castration knife*

You must have that left over from when you were castrated.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

*takes out castration knife*

You must have that left over from when you were castrated.

No its from the time I castrated opebo. Unfortunately due to Opebo being a vile and slimy life form(and not human) he regenerated.

[Conan]

....when all these people say people in the South/Midwest voting Republican should be voting Democratic cause it's in their interest.  Although this may be nice for Dems to hear sometimes, how do you explain Hollywood?  They're in loaded and they all vote for Democrats that will raise their taxes.  I really don't think America votes for individual interest like it used to. 

I can relate personally.  A reason I vote liberal is b/c of social issues.  Personally, I think abortion is wrong, I am not gay nor plan to be gay, I am not religious but far from an atheist (if that makes sense).  If you knew how I personally felt about certain things, you'd think I vote GOP.  But when it comes down to it, I'm really voting for others' interests when it comes to social issues. 

Socially liberal positions are in everyones interest becomes they benefit everyone. They only enhance freedom. Hollywood votes for dems because dems have better morals and benefit society as a whole. Taxes are not a bad thing, they build roads and cure diseases, how is that not in Hollywoods interests? I personally also think abortion is wrong for the most part but it is a freedom that individual women should have to as whether or not they want to have a child.  The more freedom the better as I see it.

[adam]

It's true. Both parties believe that they know exactly what is in the best intrest of everyone. They never stop to think..."hrm, perhaps they hold a different set of values than I do". It's a shame really.

[John Dibble]

Socially liberal positions are in everyones interest becomes they benefit everyone. They only enhance freedom.

In YOUR view they do, but believe it or not there are people who believe that they corrupt society(cause crime, single parenthood, gays marrying is an abomination against God, ect.) when enacted and make things worse for people. Which really is the whole point of the topic - if you were to say socially liberal policies are in everyone's best interests, you're essentially telling other people what their interests are when it clearly contradicts their actual interests.

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He's not talking about voting for taxes for general stuff, he's talking about voting for Dems being a vote for higher taxes. They Hollywood celebs are rich, so by voting Dem he is saying it appears against their interests because the Dems would tax them at a greater rate than the Republicans would. Rich people are generally fine without the extra government services, so it would appear to be against their economic interests to vote for higher taxes. However they have their own reasons for voting Dem, even though those reasons conflict what would appear to be their interests.

[MaC]

I also hate that argument - people need to stop telling other people what they think and what their interests are.

Dibble, you would be best off voting Libertarian.

[MODU]

I also hate that argument - people need to stop telling other people what they think and what their interests are.

Dibble, you would be best off voting Libertarian.

The Cinnabon commands you!

[Conan]

In YOUR view they do, but believe it or not there are people who believe that they corrupt society(cause crime, single parenthood, gays marrying is an abomination against God, ect.) when enacted and make things worse for people. Which really is the whole point of the topic - if you were to say socially liberal policies are in everyone's best interests, you're essentially telling other people what their interests are when it clearly contradicts their actual interests.

False, single parenthood doesnt effect anyone but the single parent. Gays marrying doesnt effect anyone but the two gays in the relationship. Crime fighting, the right way which gets results, is a liberal cause. There is absolutey no arguement here. It is not in someones interests whether or not someone else can marry. They dont effect that person. Having an opinion is different then someones interests. If its your opinion that being a single parent is bad then okay, no one cares, but its not in your interest to stop them because they dont effect you. Ridiculous.

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I know that. However in the total picture these people are voting for dems and yes they will be taxed more. They know that will happen. They also know that the money can go to the construction of hospitals, cures for diseases, helping people get an education, and so many other things. That's in society's interest.

[Gabu]

There is absolutey no arguement here.

I always love it when people argue that there's no argument...

[John Dibble]

False, single parenthood doesnt effect anyone but the single parent.

Are you daft? Are you saying it doesn't affect the child?

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And for the most part I agree, but I'm telling you what OTHER PEOPLE THINK! Apparently you might benefit from this little thing called reading comprehension.

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Personal opinion unless you can back it up with evidence.

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False. The fact that we're arguing about it says there's an argument.

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It may not affect them much, but the notion of gay marriage upsets some people, so there is an effect albeit a small one.

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I didn't say otherwise, but opinions and interests are not mutually exclusive. It is my opinion that it is in my interests to let everyone have freedom of speech, even if some people use it to be assholes.

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If it is the opinion of a person that greater amounts of single parenthood leads to greater difficulty in child rearing, and thusly greater difficulty in raising a child in a good manner, which thusly increases the crime rate, then maybe they do see a way it affects them.

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Individuals aren't society, which is the whole point of the question - the Hollywood celebs voting for Dems seems on the surface to be against their individual interests. However, since they might be interested in having those liberal policies, even if those policies do not have much of an effect on them personally, it is not so. Other people have interests that make them go towards Republican policies even if it appears to be against their individual interests.

[Joe Republic]

John, I'm always impressed at the tenacity with which you debate idiots, and the way that even the simple way you express your ideas is still misunderstood by them.  I was going to respond to Conan earlier, but then I realized that teaching myself to throw down the crutches and dance the can-can would be a more productive use of my time.  My hat is off to you, sir.

[Conan]

There is absolutey no arguement here.

I always love it when people argue that there's no argument...

I'm saying they dont have a case is what is meant.

[Conan]

False, single parenthood doesnt effect anyone but the single parent.

Are you daft? Are you saying it doesn't affect the child?

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And for the most part I agree, but I'm telling you what OTHER PEOPLE THINK! Apparently you might benefit from this little thing called reading comprehension.

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Personal opinion unless you can back it up with evidence.

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False. The fact that we're arguing about it says there's an argument.

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It may not affect them much, but the notion of gay marriage upsets some people, so there is an effect albeit a small one.

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I didn't say otherwise, but opinions and interests are not mutually exclusive. It is my opinion that it is in my interests to let everyone have freedom of speech, even if some people use it to be assholes.

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If it is the opinion of a person that greater amounts of single parenthood leads to greater difficulty in child rearing, and thusly greater difficulty in raising a child in a good manner, which thusly increases the crime rate, then maybe they do see a way it affects them.

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Individuals aren't society, which is the whole point of the question - the Hollywood celebs voting for Dems seems on the surface to be against their individual interests. However, since they might be interested in having those liberal policies, even if those policies do not have much of an effect on them personally, it is not so. Other people have interests that make them go towards Republican policies even if it appears to be against their individual interests.

1) No, it just doesnt affect you, so it doesnt involve you and if you dont like it, dont be a single parent.
2)I know thats what other people think. It is not clear in your first writing whether or not that is your opinion too. I was simply explaining how those people have no base for being against it. It's called reading comprehension.
3)Yes that is an opinion. I can google it but I dont feel like doing an hour of research.
4)I was implying that one doesn't have a case to back up their positions. That is obvious. Again, it's called reading comprehension.
5)No need to respond, just further proves my case.
6)Immature, you are easily made upset.
7)Personal opinion unless you can back it up with evidence, in your words.
Some people care more about others and arent self absorbed.
Joe Repubic)You sir are the dolt here. And it is quite nonsensical for you to intrude into other people's "disputes" just to be a schmuck.
7)

[Joe Republic]

1) No, it just doesnt affect you, so it doesnt involve you and if you dont like it, dont be a single parent.

What?  You claimed that single parent families affect nobody except the parent.  John implied in his response that it affects the child(ren) in such families, or at least some people would believe it did.  Your response to that here is to berate John for apparently sticking his nose in where it wasn't welcome, which clearly had nothing to do with the original comment.

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Something you lack, evidently.  The point of it all is that we are arguing in favor of objectivity, and at least understanding different points of view, if not having a respect for them.  Your arguments are coming from your subjective points of view, and essentially you are dictating what issues people should concern themselves with.  Which is essentially the "stupid argument" that this thread was originally about.

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What on earth was immature about this particular point?  The fact that he used the word "assholes" to describe an abstract group of people?  Did you think he was insulting you, or did you just deliberately misinterpret it because you didn't know how else to respond to it but feign indignance?

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Of course it's a personal opinion!  That was the point!!  He was illustrating how your subjective opinion could be equally matched by another subjective opinion stating that single parent families are harmful to society at large.  Neither of them are essentially factual, because both may be correct in certain ways.

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Joe Repubic?  That was pretty weak.  Surely you could come up with something better than that?  If you're going to call me a name, I would have suggested Joke Republican, or something similar.  I don't mind; it's not like its my real name.

[John Dibble]

Well Joe, thanks for saving me the work this time - it's appreciated. You pretty much said what I'd say, but there's still a few things I want to comment on.

1) No, it just doesnt affect you, so it doesnt involve you and if you dont like it, dont be a single parent.

What?  You claimed that single parent families affect nobody except the parent.  John implied in his response that it affects the child(ren) in such families, or at least some people would believe it did.  Your response to that here is to berate John for apparently sticking his nose in where it wasn't welcome, which clearly had nothing to do with the original comment.

Exactly. Also there's the notion that once can just 'choose not to be a single parent'. Sure, in a few rare cases it's chose, such as divorce, but even then you have joint custody so it isn't single parenthood and rarely do you have only one parent get full custody. If one of the parents leaves or dies, that's not a choice of the remaining parent. And believe me conan, I speak from experience in that regard - my dad was killed just before I turned ten, and I can safely say I would be a different person had he still been around to continue raising me. The notion that only the parent is affected is as I said daft. You'd have to be blind not to see it affects the child.

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What on earth was immature about this particular point?  The fact that he used the word "assholes" to describe an abstract group of people?  Did you think he was insulting you, or did you just deliberately misinterpret it because you didn't know how else to respond to it but feign indignance?[/quote]

It's as Joe says - I was not referring to you, conan. Again a little reading comprehension would do you a world of good. I was simply referring to the simple fact that certain people will use their rights in ways that are just plain uncivilized and rude. Such people are called assholes in the vernacular I do believe. Think Westboro Baptist Church if you need an example.

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Of course it's a personal opinion!  That was the point!!  He was illustrating how your subjective opinion could be equally matched by another subjective opinion stating that single parent families are harmful to society at large.  Neither of them are essentially factual, because both may be correct in certain ways.[/quote]

DING DING DING! WE HAVE A WINNER! GIVE THE MAN HIS PRIZE!