Canada : Quebec "Seperation"

[Harry Hayfield]

It was reported on Thursday that Mr. Harper, the Conservative Prime Minister of Canada, is talking about granting Quebec some kind of recognition as a seperate state in Canada (a bit like Mr. Cameron (Con, Witney) stating that he now recognised devolution as a "fact". Is Mr. Harper trying to bleed the Bloc into submission in order to gain more Bloc seats at an election and secure an overall majority?

[Colin]

He could be trying to refound the Mulroney coalition within the Conservative Party. By bringing the Quebecois seperatists and autonomists back into the fold of the Conservatives he brings back another oen of the three major coalitions that were part of the PCs winning strategy in the 80's. All he would need now is suceed in bringing these Qubecois back into the party and bring back the old Red Tories from the Atlantic provinces and Ontario back into the party and he'd have rebuilt the winning coalition for the Conservatives.

However the likelihood of this happening is very slim. He'll probably need to continue to rely on the support of the Bloc in parliament and if the Bloc does lose seats it will be to the Liberals not to the Conservatives. If I was Stephen Harper I would actually try to prop up the BQ since there the only party that he could possibly ally with.

[Gabu]

I don't even understand what Harper is talking about with this "a nation in Canada" bit.  That line just makes no sense to me.  I was joking with my mom that it meant "a nation, but one that still receives all the federal funding it needs from Canada".  I would not be surprised if this was actually the case.

[Bono]

I don't even understand what Harper is talking about with this "a nation in Canada" bit.  That line just makes no sense to me.  I was joking with my mom that it meant "a nation, but one that still receives all the federal funding it needs from Canada".  I would not be surprised if this was actually the case.

Just like Catalonia can be a nation in Spain.
The difference being that Catalonia is a net contributor.

[NewFederalist]

I don't even understand what Harper is talking about with this "a nation in Canada" bit.  That line just makes no sense to me.  I was joking with my mom that it meant "a nation, but one that still receives all the federal funding it needs from Canada".  I would not be surprised if this was actually the case.

Is he thinking of a situation like Nunavit? Could that even work?

[Gabu]

Is he thinking of a situation like Nunavit? Could that even work?

I don't know what you mean by "a situation like Nunavut".

[Filuwaúrdjan]

In the end, "nation" is just a word.

---

I'm wondering what the electoral effects of this might be though; and not just in Quebec.

[bullmoose88]

So when does Alberta get to take its oil wealth and go home because it doesn't like the other kids on the bloc?...Err. Block

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

I was thinking that perhaps Canada could make it strongly illegal to speak french and not allowing anyone who is a french speaker to vote.

[Colin]

I was thinking that perhaps Canada could make it strongly illegal to speak french and not allowing anyone who is a french speaker to vote.

Yeah I think Quebec would then revolt in a way that has not been seen outside of Belfast and Beirut. I mean that would make the October Crisis look like Fourth of July, or whenever the hell Canada Day is.

[Gabu]

I was thinking that perhaps Canada could make it strongly illegal to speak french and not allowing anyone who is a french speaker to vote.

Yeah I think Quebec would then revolt in a way that has not been seen outside of Belfast and Beirut. I mean that would make the October Crisis look like Fourth of July, or whenever the hell Canada Day is.

July 1.

[Colin]

I was thinking that perhaps Canada could make it strongly illegal to speak french and not allowing anyone who is a french speaker to vote.

Yeah I think Quebec would then revolt in a way that has not been seen outside of Belfast and Beirut. I mean that would make the October Crisis look like Fourth of July, or whenever the hell Canada Day is.

July 1.

Obviously you're trying to copy our holiday since it is uber-cool.

[NewFederalist]

Is he thinking of a situation like Nunavit? Could that even work?

I don't know what you mean by "a situation like Nunavut".

Isn't Nunavut supposedly a self-governing area with Canada handling their foreign affairs? In other words not a province or even a territory in the sense of the Yukon or NWT.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Is he thinking of a situation like Nunavit? Could that even work?

I don't know what you mean by "a situation like Nunavut".

Isn't Nunavut supposedly a self-governing area with Canada handling their foreign affairs? In other words not a province or even a territory in the sense of the Yukon or NWT.

I don't much about Nunavut but this seems a good solution to this situation. Which means it probably won't happen.

[Gabu]

Is he thinking of a situation like Nunavit? Could that even work?

I don't know what you mean by "a situation like Nunavut".

Isn't Nunavut supposedly a self-governing area with Canada handling their foreign affairs? In other words not a province or even a territory in the sense of the Yukon or NWT.

No, it's a territory that has representation in Parliament and that receives federal funding.

[AN Y]

Perhaps something like the "One Country, Two Systems" in China?

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

Quebec is the best arguement IMO against giving regions political and cultural autonomy.

[Stranger in a strange land]

Perhaps Harper is trying to push Quebec out of Canada.

[Gabu]

Perhaps Harper is trying to push Quebec out of Canada.

I think it's quite the opposite, really: that Harper is trying to get a majority government by undermining the Bloc Quebecois and by getting the separatist vote in Quebec.

[Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon]

Perhaps Harper is trying to push Quebec out of Canada.

I think it's quite the opposite, really: that Harper is trying to get a majority government by undermining the Bloc Quebecois and by getting the separatist vote in Quebec.

Isn't that what got Mulroney in trouble?

[Gabu]

Isn't that what got Mulroney in trouble?

Quebec separatism added to his problems, but no, it was mostly the GST.  Everyone hated the GST, and the fact that he used the "emergency" clause in the Constitution to get it through the Senate was a particularly bad thing for PR.

[dazzleman]

Maybe Canada should just expel Quebec from the union.

This is why I favor English-only policies in the US.

[Gabu]

Maybe Canada should just expel Quebec from the union.

This is why I favor English-only policies in the US.

I've long said that Canada should just say "don't let the door hit your ass on the way out" and then wait a few years for Quebec to come crawling back, begging to be let back in.

Quebec is so incredibly disproportionately federally funded, there's no way they could survive as an autonomous country expected to be self-sufficient.

[dazzleman]

Maybe Canada should just expel Quebec from the union.

This is why I favor English-only policies in the US.

I've long said that Canada should just say "don't let the door hit your ass on the way out" and then wait a few years for Quebec to come crawling back, begging to be let back in.

Quebec is so incredibly disproportionately federally funded, there's no way they could survive as an autonomous country expected to be self-sufficient.

I'm guessing you're right.  The most dependent are usually the most delusional.  They never recognize their dependency, and always act as if everybody else should be tip-toeing around them.

What is it about that language (French) that makes those who speak it seem to think they're so superior to everybody else?

[Gabu]

What is it about that language (French) that makes those who speak it seem to think they're so superior to everybody else?

Well, in Quebec's case it more has to do with Quebec's history.  The fact that Quebec settlers were French was a coincidence.  It probably would have been at least roughly the same had they been Spanish or anything else.

What is currently known as Canada originally started as two separate pieces of controlled land.  One belonged to the British, in what is now known as Ontario.  The other belonged to the French, known as New France, and what is now known as Quebec.  Since New France was both territorially large and not very populated, it was an obvious target for British conquest.  The British invaded New France in 1756 and won the war in 1760 after Montréal fell.  The new British land was christened the Province of Quebec.

However, given the fact that there were still a whole lot of French folk living in the Province of Quebec, and given that they were not exactly that happy about being under British rule, the British were afraid that they would support the American rebels in the south when the Revolutionary War broke out, so in 1774 the British passed the Quebec Act, giving a number of concessions to the Quebeckers, including allowing them to continue using French common law and recognizing the Catholic Church and its ability to legally collect tithes.

Since then there have been a number of other stuff written into Canadian law to play nice with the Quebeckers, one of which is a peculiar law stating that a French version of text must appear on anything written by businesses and government and must be at least as large as the English text, but giving no such provision for English.  This has been hugely abused by folk in Quebec, where you'll quite commonly see signs with huge French letters and tiny little English letters, if any at all.  Speaking English in Quebec is looked down upon by many people.

The Quebec thing is largely how the Israel-Palestine thing will likely be in fifty more years: hatred of the other side and a feeling of entitlement gets passed down from generation to generation, and by the time you've gone far enough, no one really knows why the heck they feel that way in the first place, but they do anyway, and they're sure as heck going to let you know about it.