Venezuela's socialism doesn't work
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  Venezuela's socialism doesn't work
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Author Topic: Venezuela's socialism doesn't work  (Read 1686 times)
David S
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« on: March 14, 2007, 05:09:09 PM »


http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007703140336
Detroit News
Manny Lopez

Venezuela's socialism doesn't work

Shortages, crime afflict citizens as Chávez lets corruption run wild



CARACAS, Venezuela - At first glance, the street markets here give little indication that this country's economy is falling apart.

Vendors holler their prices for plantains, fresh fruit and avocados the size of cantaloupes at consumers. Prices are rarely fixed and permits to sell aren't needed. Good thing, too, because as Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez wrings democracy and the free market out of the country, more people will need to sell stuff on the streets, if they have anything left to sell.

Crime is out of control, and Venezuelans legitimately fear the worst is yet to come.

Poverty, crime, corruption and anti-American sentiment aren't unique to Chávez's regime. But there are fundamental failures in the market and society in Venezuela, a country that traditionally has been a stable, democratic nation.

Chávez calls it 21st-century socialism. A more honest interpreter would call it communism.

Street-level view of socialism

Venezuela is a different place than when I visited nine years ago.

This is evident the moment I land in Caracas. The airport, a once-bustling hub of international flights, is a ghost town. Nameplate airlines from the United States and Europe are scarce.

Apparently tourism and 21st-century socialism don't mix.

No, Chávez is interested only in personal power, which is rooted in giving the poor two grains of rice instead of one and telling them a shipment of chickens is coming. Only there are no longer any chickens.

Or at least none that most Venezuelans can justify paying a high price for in the few stores and markets where they're sold. Price controls have all but eliminated poultry from the market. The same goes for beef and most other meats.

At Exito, a Wal-Mart type store in Barcelona (population 350,000), pig feet and snout were readily available, and a few packs of rotting ground beef were for sale. That was it. Entire shelves of pasta and other staples also sat empty.

Propaganda over progress

Chávez compensates for this with propaganda. The "democratically elected" dictator has re-appropriated money for everything from student school supplies to roads and used it to paint his picture on every clear surface. "Patriotism, socialism or death" banners hang across streets in Caracas, and anti-American murals adorn walls everywhere.

In the state of Anzoategui (one of 23 county-like regions in Venezuela), public workers wear red smocks (the color of Chávez's so-called revolution) that bear the local governor's name and phrases about progress and community.

Chávistas allegedly are everywhere, but really they are only in the poorest neighborhoods. "You are entering Chávez territory, 100 percent," say spray-painted signs (warnings?) on the walls of some enclaves.

Taxi drivers and others who have to pass by these neighborhoods keep red hats in their windows or glove boxes to don when necessary. That doesn't protect them from being stopped and robbed, a regular occurrence especially in early mornings or late at night.

Chávez is leading this charge. He has created a culture that teaches that citizens can take what they want from anyone who is better off than them -- in the name of social justice.

At the same time, government services suffer. Water in Barcelona was available daily for a few hours in the morning and maybe at night. Similarly, the electricity turned on and off without warning. The only certainty was that both utilities would fail daily. This is inexcusable given the oil wealth in this country.

This isn't merely the grumbling of a pampered American tourist. These were the complaints and observations from the people who live and breathe 21st-century socialism.

It's not the Venezuela I remember and one that an increasing number of Venezuelans would already like to forget.

Manny Lopez is a Detroit News editorial writer whose online column is published Sunday.
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CPT MikeyMike
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« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2007, 05:37:26 PM »

Chavez is turning into the 21th century's version of Stalin.
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Verily
Cuivienen
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« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2007, 06:58:41 PM »

No, he doesn't have the mania of Stalin. He won't kill tens of thousands of people. He's not a menace, just a nuisance.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2007, 07:06:46 PM »

No, he doesn't have the mania of Stalin. He won't kill tens of thousands of people. He's not a menace, just a nuisance.

Millions. Tens of millions. Damn Stalin apologist Tongue Wink
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Colin
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« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2007, 07:13:36 PM »

Shortage, crime, and corruption in Venezuela? I thought you were going to tell me something that hasn't been an everyday occurance in Venezuela or most Latin American countries for the past 150 years. Alert me when some actual news occurs.
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The Man From G.O.P.
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« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2007, 10:24:04 PM »

THIS JUST IN: Socialism doesn't work
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Verily
Cuivienen
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« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2007, 10:24:59 PM »

No, he doesn't have the mania of Stalin. He won't kill tens of thousands of people. He's not a menace, just a nuisance.

Millions. Tens of millions. Damn Stalin apologist Tongue Wink

All right, I admit it. I'm a Stalin apologist. Wink

Tens of millions is fine, too. I doubt Chavez will get around to 1,000, though, so "millions" is moot.
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MaC
Milk_and_cereal
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« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2007, 10:48:19 PM »


I know, tell that to 50% of this forum though-they're like a brick wall Roll Eyes
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opebo
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« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2007, 07:51:36 AM »


I know, tell that to 50% of this forum though-they're like a brick wall Roll Eyes

As if you fellows have any idea what works.  And what is your definition of 'works' anyway? - certainly capitalism does not 'work' for a huge percentage of the population.

Any honest observer can see that what creates the best conditions for most people is a mixed system - which is precisely what chavez is attempting, and which you fellows mistakenly call 'socialism'.
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MaC
Milk_and_cereal
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« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2007, 11:52:38 AM »


I know, tell that to 50% of this forum though-they're like a brick wall Roll Eyes

As if you fellows have any idea what works.  And what is your definition of 'works' anyway? - certainly capitalism does not 'work' for a huge percentage of the population.

Any honest observer can see that what creates the best conditions for most people is a mixed system - which is precisely what chavez is attempting, and which you fellows mistakenly call 'socialism'.

Whether it's called socialism is an arbitrary use of language.  Point is-it's collectivist in nature which is something that doesn't help anyone except the powerful.

Capitalism in it's true form has never been attempted however.  A closer version has been tried in the past as it has liberated many people from poverty.

Think about this before you criticize opebo, you own conditions (and the conditions of every class) have been improved by the wealth capitalism brings.  Nobody in current-day America starves to death: and it's a matter of having an excess of food that drops the price down to where everyone can afford it. 

Now if we still had a collectivist system, how would you know that those on top would be able to redistribute fairly the amount of food?  Capitalism allows for a dismantling of hierarchy.  Granted any system will have hierarchy, but socialism gives those at the top more power-central planning.
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opebo
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« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2007, 12:16:40 PM »

Nobody in current-day America starves to death:

Oh no?  Why wouldn't they?  If they can't get money they'll starve.

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What are you talking about  Mac?  Capitalism has a very strict heirarchy - the owning class controls everything and the rest serve them.
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MaC
Milk_and_cereal
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« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2007, 01:25:27 PM »

Name one person who's died last year because of hunger (bad nutrition doesn't count).  Fact of the matter is that charity and other means allow for people to get by with hunger.  Compare this to Soviet Russia or Communist China where millions starve to death as a result of bad central planning causing shortages.

The owning class doesn't have nearly the kind of political power it does in a capitalism as it does under a collectivized economy.  Central planning and redistribution is at the whims of who is in government at the time.

You'd probably like to be at the top of a collectivist hierarchy-you'd be able to withhold all food for Christians and people who make over $100,000 a year.  The nature of arbitrary power is kind of attractive, no?



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opebo
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« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2007, 02:52:17 AM »

The nature of arbitrary power is kind of attractive, no?

Sure, that is why it is so nice to be rich, MaC.
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Undisguised Sockpuppet
Straha
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« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2007, 08:17:57 AM »

Communism doesn't work.
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Cubby
Pim Fortuyn
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« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2007, 01:45:25 AM »

Chavez is turning into the 21th century's version of Stalin.

Are you serious? hahahahahahaha! You made a funny.

Bush has killed far more people (i.e. soldiers) than Chavez has, although its true he is becoming somewhat authoritarian and has never tolerated dissent very well.
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2007, 05:48:53 AM »

Shortage, crime, and corruption in Venezuela? I thought you were going to tell me something that hasn't been an everyday occurance in Venezuela or most Latin American countries for the past 150 years. Alert me when some actual news occurs.

Only sane post in the thread so far.

People have to remember what Latin America is like in order to find out why moronic populist thugs like Chavez get elected so easily.
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opebo
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« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2007, 07:46:51 AM »

Shortage, crime, and corruption in Venezuela? I thought you were going to tell me something that hasn't been an everyday occurance in Venezuela or most Latin American countries for the past 150 years. Alert me when some actual news occurs.

Only sane post in the thread so far.

People have to remember what Latin America is like in order to find out why moronic populist thugs like Chavez get elected so easily.

So why are moronic populist thugs elected so easily in the US (Bush)?
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Undisguised Sockpuppet
Straha
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« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2007, 08:37:50 AM »

Bush got elected because of the unfortunate historical circumstances that lead to the US retaining a (slim... only 52% as of 2000) protestant majority. Protestantism is something that only leads to unpleasantness at tech levels higher than industrial revolution/steam age levels. You either get north european social engineering or US fundamentalism.
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