If you were President in 1980....

[Wakie]

I probably would have selectively backed the Muhajehadein but wouldn't have given them stinger missiles.

Effectively though, that means that you would have given them enough to bleed the Soviets, but not enough to actually drive them out.  That was our policy actually until 1985-86.

Well to be fair it wasn't the addition of Stinger missiles which drove the Soviets out of Afghanistan.  Gorbie and the Soviet leadership just finally hit a point where their own government was collapsing and continued expenditure propping up an unpopular foreign regime was pointless.

[dazzleman]

I probably would have selectively backed the Muhajehadein but wouldn't have given them stinger missiles.

Effectively though, that means that you would have given them enough to bleed the Soviets, but not enough to actually drive them out.  That was our policy actually until 1985-86.

Well to be fair it wasn't the addition of Stinger missiles which drove the Soviets out of Afghanistan.  Gorbie and the Soviet leadership just finally hit a point where their own government was collapsing and continued expenditure propping up an unpopular foreign regime was pointless.

I think the fact that the mujahedeen had more sophistocated weaponry made the Soviet fight there harder, and hastened their decision to leave.  Surely, the Soviets' other problems played a role too, but it would have been easier and cheaper for them to hang on in Afghanistan if the resistance had been less effective.

[Inks.LWC Supports Chuck Hagel]

absolutely!

[Wakie]

I probably would have selectively backed the Muhajehadein but wouldn't have given them stinger missiles.

Effectively though, that means that you would have given them enough to bleed the Soviets, but not enough to actually drive them out.  That was our policy actually until 1985-86.

Well to be fair it wasn't the addition of Stinger missiles which drove the Soviets out of Afghanistan.  Gorbie and the Soviet leadership just finally hit a point where their own government was collapsing and continued expenditure propping up an unpopular foreign regime was pointless.

I think the fact that the mujahedeen had more sophistocated weaponry made the Soviet fight there harder, and hastened their decision to leave.  Surely, the Soviets' other problems played a role too, but it would have been easier and cheaper for them to hang on in Afghanistan if the resistance had been less effective.

Again, lets be fair about this.  The Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan came w/ the late 1988 Geneva Accords (w/ a final departure date set in 1989).  The Soviet Union collapsed in 1991.  So, at best the Stinger missiles could have forced a Soviet withdrawal 2 years early.

[The Duke]

I probably would have selectively backed the Muhajehadein but wouldn't have given them stinger missiles.

Effectively though, that means that you would have given them enough to bleed the Soviets, but not enough to actually drive them out.  That was our policy actually until 1985-86.

Well to be fair it wasn't the addition of Stinger missiles which drove the Soviets out of Afghanistan.  Gorbie and the Soviet leadership just finally hit a point where their own government was collapsing and continued expenditure propping up an unpopular foreign regime was pointless.

I think the fact that the mujahedeen had more sophistocated weaponry made the Soviet fight there harder, and hastened their decision to leave.  Surely, the Soviets' other problems played a role too, but it would have been easier and cheaper for them to hang on in Afghanistan if the resistance had been less effective.

Again, lets be fair about this.  The Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan came w/ the late 1988 Geneva Accords (w/ a final departure date set in 1989).  The Soviet Union collapsed in 1991.  So, at best the Stinger missiles could have forced a Soviet withdrawal 2 years early.

I don't think anyone is making the case that Stinger missiles alone brought down the USSR or ended the war in Afghanistan, only that they contributed to the Soviet defeat (Which they obviously did).

The Afghans had a saying, "We do not fear the Soviets, but we do fear their helicopters."  This was a reference to the feared Mi-24 Hind gunships that the Soviets used in close air support missions.  Without Stingers, the Afghans would have remained helpless against the helicopters.  This is why the Stingers were so important.

[Sam Spade]

This thread is more proof of BRTD's idiocy.

[Wakie]

I probably would have selectively backed the Muhajehadein but wouldn't have given them stinger missiles.

Effectively though, that means that you would have given them enough to bleed the Soviets, but not enough to actually drive them out.  That was our policy actually until 1985-86.

Well to be fair it wasn't the addition of Stinger missiles which drove the Soviets out of Afghanistan.  Gorbie and the Soviet leadership just finally hit a point where their own government was collapsing and continued expenditure propping up an unpopular foreign regime was pointless.

I think the fact that the mujahedeen had more sophistocated weaponry made the Soviet fight there harder, and hastened their decision to leave.  Surely, the Soviets' other problems played a role too, but it would have been easier and cheaper for them to hang on in Afghanistan if the resistance had been less effective.

Again, lets be fair about this.  The Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan came w/ the late 1988 Geneva Accords (w/ a final departure date set in 1989).  The Soviet Union collapsed in 1991.  So, at best the Stinger missiles could have forced a Soviet withdrawal 2 years early.

I don't think anyone is making the case that Stinger missiles alone brought down the USSR or ended the war in Afghanistan, only that they contributed to the Soviet defeat (Which they obviously did).

The Afghans had a saying, "We do not fear the Soviets, but we do fear their helicopters."  This was a reference to the feared Mi-24 Hind gunships that the Soviets used in close air support missions.  Without Stingers, the Afghans would have remained helpless against the helicopters.  This is why the Stingers were so important.

Actually I took dazzleman's statement ("you would have given them enough to bleed the Soviets, but not enough to actually drive them out.") to be saying exactly that the Stingers ended the war in Afghanistan.

I don't think our objective in Afghanistan in the '80s was the "win", just to prolong it to help us to win the Cold War.  I agree that without the Stingers more Afghans would have died.  But I also think that the world picture would be exactly the same today.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

I would have made sure the sovs got involved in a forever war in central asia by using incidents to provoke Pakistan and IRan to go to war against them. Also work to promote a sino-soviet war.