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Author Topic: *sigh* Another black Republican down  (Read 13321 times)
Pictor Ignotus
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« Reply #25 on: December 20, 2006, 03:13:05 pm »
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Don, did you agree with the Memphis people who said the 9th congressional seat should go to an AfAm? I, for one, am fairly pleased about Cohen, though he needs to shut up about any more lotteries.

Of course you are pleased about Cohen.  He's white, Democratic, and liberal, what more could you ask for?


I couldn't care less what color he is, Don.
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« Reply #26 on: December 20, 2006, 04:57:42 pm »
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Don, did you agree with the Memphis people who said the 9th congressional seat should go to an AfAm? I, for one, am fairly pleased about Cohen, though he needs to shut up about any more lotteries.

Of course you are pleased about Cohen.  He's white, Democratic, and liberal, what more could you ask for?


I couldn't care less what color he is, Don.

I didn't mean it like that - I forgot you were from Nashville.   You come from a part of the wold where there are lots of white Democrats.  Here, there are very few white Dems, though they are well represented in elected offices. (Only about 12% of Democrats in this county are white)

Look at the TN-09 Democratic primary map and then tell me that race doesn't matter to white Memphis Democrats.
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« Reply #27 on: December 20, 2006, 05:08:33 pm »
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So what?  If the black majority is so large, wants a black representative, and somehow can't elect one, whose fault is that?

Of course it is theirs.  It is also their fault for not realizing that there is more than one political party that they can use to promote their interests.

I believe in and cherish minority representation in public office.  It is the best that we can do until we reach a point in our world where consideration of one's race no longer burdens us.  There is no question who bears the responsibility for electing office-holders.  However, I must raise a concern when I feel that an opportunity for advancement of African-Americans has been squandered.
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Joe Republic
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« Reply #28 on: December 20, 2006, 05:23:43 pm »

However, I must raise a concern when I feel that an opportunity for advancement of African-Americans has been squandered.

Like the TN Senate race, for example.
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Real Americans (and Big Sky Bob) demand to know.


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Pictor Ignotus
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« Reply #29 on: December 20, 2006, 05:33:36 pm »
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Don- I just meant I like Cohen, for the most part. I think he's pretty straightforward for a politician, and yes, he's a liberal on social issues, and moreso than his predecessor in D9, though I have a lot of respect for him, too.


Joe- I don't really believe Harold Ford Jr. lost because of his race. Of course in a really close race, one could find at least 25 different reasons someone lost a race. I, for one, think Ford lost more for his marital status than his race. I pretty much think that the vast majority of people voting in TN wouldn't vote Dem at all if they really thought a black person shouldn't be a Senator.

Though it certainly was an opportunity for an African American to advance. It's a Republican state. Aside from Bredesen, no other Democrat has come as close to winning a statewide race in TN since Al Gore was our Senator.
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« Reply #30 on: December 20, 2006, 05:44:28 pm »

Joe- I don't really believe Harold Ford Jr. lost because of his race. Of course in a really close race, one could find at least 25 different reasons someone lost a race. I, for one, think Ford lost more for his marital status than his race. I pretty much think that the vast majority of people voting in TN wouldn't vote Dem at all if they really thought a black person shouldn't be a Senator.

Though it certainly was an opportunity for an African American to advance. It's a Republican state. Aside from Bredesen, no other Democrat has come as close to winning a statewide race in TN since Al Gore was our Senator.

My post was purely a dig at Don's "concern" that an opportunity to elect a black person was missed, by using the example of a situation in which he would never have supported said black person anyway.
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« Reply #31 on: December 20, 2006, 09:44:36 pm »
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According to politics1, that leaves just two black Republicans left in statewide offices anywhere in the country.

Out of curiosity, does that statistic include outgoing Maryland Lt. Governor Michael Steele?
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« Reply #32 on: December 20, 2006, 10:22:18 pm »
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However, when you consider that there are a limited number of districts where qualified African-Americans would get a chance to serve, the situation deserves some serious thought and consideration.

Well Keith Ellison won a majority-white district, so that cancels it out.

I'd trade you Ellison for Cohen btw. Would you like that?
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« Reply #33 on: December 20, 2006, 11:13:35 pm »
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Another problem when it comes to Black Republicans: They'll never try to compete against Incumbent African-American Democrats.

Sure, the districts involved are heavily Democratic. But it really doesn't seem like there is an alternative being offered either.

Yes they do, in Phila, and they loose.
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« Reply #34 on: December 20, 2006, 11:18:48 pm »
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I'd like to see better black Democrats in Philadelphia.  Seriously, the only decent ones are Michael Nutter and Dwight Evans.  I also like State Rep. Cherelle Parker and State Sen. LeAnne Washington, but a good number (Fattah, Reynolds-Brown, Kitchen, Street) are jokes. 

I've met Senator Washington, and know some of her supporters.  I actually have a favorable impression of her.
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« Reply #35 on: December 21, 2006, 12:30:55 pm »
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According to politics1, that leaves just two black Republicans left in statewide offices anywhere in the country.

Out of curiosity, does that statistic include outgoing Maryland Lt. Governor Michael Steele?

No - it includes two officials in Texas (Railroad Commissioner Williams and the Supreme Court Chief Justice)
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« Reply #36 on: December 23, 2006, 02:23:58 am »
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Now if we can just defeat that jerk Bobby Jindal, it'll be smooth sailing till 2008.
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« Reply #37 on: December 23, 2006, 10:39:24 am »
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There is only one logical choice to the GOP in this dilemma:

Keep trying to win black voters, even when/if their share of the GOP vote is 10-15% in a good election.

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« Reply #38 on: December 23, 2006, 10:57:06 am »
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There is only one logical choice to the GOP in this dilemma:

Keep trying to win black voters, even when/if their share of the GOP vote is 10-15% in a good election.
After all, polling 15% instead of 10% of Black voters in a national election is just as much of an improvent as polling 52% instead of 51.2% of White voters is.

...

Except it's probably harder to do, especially without loss of non-Black vote.
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« Reply #39 on: December 23, 2006, 11:17:09 am »
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There is only one logical choice to the GOP in this dilemma:

Keep trying to win black voters, even when/if their share of the GOP vote is 10-15% in a good election.
After all, polling 15% instead of 10% of Black voters in a national election is just as much of an improvent as polling 52% instead of 51.2% of White voters is.

...

Except it's probably harder to do, especially without loss of non-Black vote.

In this case, it's not so much the absolute share of the vote gained (yes, it is marginal), but a matter of principle to demonstrate that the GOP is not off-limits to an entire race, even if the marginal cost per vote, as dazzleman stated, is steep.
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« Reply #40 on: December 23, 2006, 11:42:17 am »
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There is only one logical choice to the GOP in this dilemma:

Keep trying to win black voters, even when/if their share of the GOP vote is 10-15% in a good election.
After all, polling 15% instead of 10% of Black voters in a national election is just as much of an improvent as polling 52% instead of 51.2% of White voters is.

...

Except it's probably harder to do, especially without loss of non-Black vote.

In this case, it's not so much the absolute share of the vote gained (yes, it is marginal), but a matter of principle to demonstrate that the GOP is not off-limits to an entire race, even if the marginal cost per vote, as dazzleman stated, is steep.

How many elections do you think the GOP is willing to lose for this principle?

I remember when Jack Kemp ran with Dole in 1996, and talked about how GOP campaigns such as Reagan's that ignored blacks were wrong, and that it had to change.

And yet Reagan won big, while Dole and Kemp got creamed.

I think that until black voters make it clear that they're willing to look at alternatives other than the Democratic party unconditionally, there isn't going to be much movement on this.

I agree with that only to the extent that GOP coolness towards black voters doesn't become an open secret, or worse, a "successful" Democrat attack ad aimed at moderate white voters. And whites, in general, are less antagonistic (if not supportive) toward blacks now than they were in 1980.

Practically speaking, I would favor an outreach two or three degrees warmer than utter tokenism (e.g. a Republican president nominating a inner-city Negroid for HUD secretary).

Furthermore, it's not at all certain the the GOP will be any better at attracting soon-to-be Hispanic voters, although in most cases, Hispanics don't actively hate the party in the way middle-aged blacks voters do.

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« Reply #41 on: December 23, 2006, 11:48:10 am »
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...and yet I'm pretty sure Reagan did a good deal better among Black voters than Dole did.
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« Reply #42 on: December 23, 2006, 07:14:48 pm »
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There is only one logical choice to the GOP in this dilemma:

Keep trying to win black voters, even when/if their share of the GOP vote is 10-15% in a good election.



That's basically what the GOP is doing, though practically speaking, the party can only go so far in trying to win black votes without pissing off their own voters.  This is not to call GOP voters racist necessarily, but to say that many of the things that are of high importance for black voters aren't that important to many GOP voters.  Since most blacks wouldn't vote GOP no matter what, the party can't do a great deal in a futile attempt to win more black votes if they end up alienating their own voters.

I'm not sure how much the GOP would alienate non-racist white conservative voters by trying to appeal towards blacks. While the economic differences may be strong, many black voters are religious and socially conservative, something that is shared with white Republicans.
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« Reply #43 on: December 23, 2006, 08:14:47 pm »
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There is only one logical choice to the GOP in this dilemma:

Keep trying to win black voters, even when/if their share of the GOP vote is 10-15% in a good election.



That's basically what the GOP is doing, though practically speaking, the party can only go so far in trying to win black votes without pissing off their own voters.  This is not to call GOP voters racist necessarily, but to say that many of the things that are of high importance for black voters aren't that important to many GOP voters.  Since most blacks wouldn't vote GOP no matter what, the party can't do a great deal in a futile attempt to win more black votes if they end up alienating their own voters.

I'm not sure how much the GOP would alienate non-racist white conservative voters by trying to appeal towards blacks. While the economic differences may be strong, many black voters are religious and socially conservative, something that is shared with white Republicans.

I think you're kidding yourself about the extent of the racial gulf.

There's really no such thing as 'non-racist;' racism is a matter of degree.

And even eliminating racism, there are many issues where blacks and most whites simply don't agree, and it will be very difficult to bridge that gap.

I don't see this situation changing until blacks reach a level of political maturity at which they don't predominantly belong to just one party.  This is going to take a long time.

I'm not denying that we have a significant racial problem in our society. But of course there are gulfs between urban and rural whites, poor whites and rich whites, liberal whites and conservative whites, etc.

The racial divide won't decrease unless/until people start identifying by their values/lifestyle/goals instead of the race of their ancestors.

I don't think it's fair to blame blacks' voting patterns for the racial divide in our country, as you seem to imply in your last paragraph. Ultimately, members of both races would need to make amends in order to decrease the racial divide. For example, if the Republican party became more moderate, you'd see more blacks voting GOP.
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« Reply #44 on: December 23, 2006, 10:40:22 pm »
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...and yet I'm pretty sure Reagan did a good deal better among Black voters than Dole did.

He was probably the last President to benefit from older black voters still being loyal Republicans, a remnant of the pre-FDR days.

I'll never forget Condoleeza Rice's speech to the GOP convention in 2000. She said her father registered as a Republican voter (in Alabama in 1952) because the Democrats (i.e. segregationists) wouldn't allow him in their party. I never took her seriously after that idiotic statement.
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« Reply #45 on: December 26, 2006, 11:13:23 am »
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Reagan was actually quite unpopular amongst blacks.  He won only 6% of African Americans in 1984, which probably explains why he won 59% of the vote rather than 61% like Nixon did in 1972 - and Nixon won a surprising amount of black voters.  George Bush in 1988 was credited with doubling African American support for the GOP, he won 12% - double Reagan's total in 1984. 
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« Reply #46 on: December 26, 2006, 11:21:38 am »
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Randy Brock, Vermont State Auditor - an African-American Republican - has lost his bid for re-election after the recount.  According to politics1, that leaves just two black Republicans left in statewide offices anywhere in the country.  This is a sad day for America.  Happy auditing, Democrats.


Don, Democrats are not the ones to blame for the problems that face Black Republicans.

After all, we didn't make your party nominate an opponent of the Civil Rights Act in 1964.

Fun notes: Data from Louisiana tells us that only 4% of registered Republicans are African-American. Also, 3% of American Americans are registered Republican.

Maybe that is the Democrats fault. After all, we actually accomplished things to help their lives. Cheesy
Arent you forgetting that the Democrats are the ones that supported keeping slavery legal.  If the Republicans hadnt come around, slavery would have continued for many years after that.
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« Reply #47 on: December 26, 2006, 11:45:59 am »
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Reagan was actually quite unpopular amongst blacks.  He won only 6% of African Americans in 1984, which probably explains why he won 59% of the vote rather than 61% like Nixon did in 1972 - and Nixon won a surprising amount of black voters.  George Bush in 1988 was credited with doubling African American support for the GOP, he won 12% - double Reagan's total in 1984. 

Yeah, Reagan was known for alienating black voters.
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« Reply #48 on: December 28, 2006, 06:59:42 am »
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Reagan was actually quite unpopular amongst blacks.  He won only 6% of African Americans in 1984, which probably explains why he won 59% of the vote rather than 61% like Nixon did in 1972 - and Nixon won a surprising amount of black voters.  George Bush in 1988 was credited with doubling African American support for the GOP, he won 12% - double Reagan's total in 1984. 

Yeah, Reagan was known for alienating black voters.
Hm, I never knew that. (Although when he died, and the media was full of how great and beloved a president he'd been and there were people queuing three times around the block to see his cadaver, some German journalist noted only two Blacks in said queue in a 60%+ Black city, and spoke with both of them. Smiley )
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« Reply #49 on: December 28, 2006, 04:37:20 pm »
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Yeah, Reagan was known for alienating black voters.

More like the other way around.
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