82% of Brits think religion does more harm than good

[Joe Republic]

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Religion does more harm than good - poll

82% say faith causes tension in country where two thirds are not religious

Julian Glover and Alexandra Topping
Saturday December 23, 2006


More people in Britain think religion causes harm than believe it does good, according to a Guardian/ICM poll published today. It shows that an overwhelming majority see religion as a cause of division and tension - greatly outnumbering the smaller majority who also believe that it can be a force for good.

The poll also reveals that non-believers outnumber believers in Britain by almost two to one. It paints a picture of a sceptical nation with massive doubts about the effect religion has on society: 82% of those questioned say they see religion as a cause of division and tension between people. Only 16% disagree. The findings are at odds with attempts by some religious leaders to define the country as one made up of many faith communities.

Most people have no personal faith, the poll shows, with only 33% of those questioned describing themselves as "a religious person". A clear majority, 63%, say that they are not religious - including more than half of those who describe themselves as Christian.

Older people and women are the most likely to believe in a god, with 37% of women saying they are religious, compared with 29% of men.

The findings come at the end of a year in which multiculturalism and the role of different faiths in society has been at the heart of a divisive political debate.

But a spokesman for the Church of England denied yesterday that mainstream religion was the source of tension. He also insisted that the "impression of secularism in this country is overrated".

"You also have to bear in mind how society has changed. It is more difficult to go to church now than it was. Communities are displaced, people work longer hours - it's harder to fit it in. It doesn't alter the fact that the Church of England will get 1 million people in church every Sunday, which is larger than any other gathering in the country."

The Right Rev Bishop Dunn, Bishop of Hexham and Newcastle, added: "The perception that faith is a cause of division can often be because faith is misused for other uses and other agendas."

The poll suggests, however, that in modern Britain religious observance has become a habit reserved for special occasions. Only 13% of those questioned claimed to visit a place of worship at least once a week, with 43% saying they never attended religious services.

Non-Christians are the most regular attenders - 29% say they attend a religious service at least weekly. Yet Christmas remains a religious festival for many people, with 54% of Christians questioned saying they intended to go to a religious service over the holiday period.

Well-off people are more likely to plan to visit a church at Christmas: 64% of those in the highest economic categories expect to attend, compared with 43% of those in the bottom group.

Britain's generally tolerant attitude to religion is underlined by the small proportion who say the country is best described as a Christian one. Only 17% think this. The clear majority, 62%, agree Britain is better described as "a religious country of many faiths".

ICM interviewed a random sample of 1,006 adults aged 18+ by telephone between December 12 and 13. Interviews were conducted across the country and the results have been weighted to the profile of all adults. ICM is a member of the British Polling Council and abides by its rules.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Shock as poll for newspaper finds results that fit with newspaper's editorial line

Not nearly as good an abuse of polling to find the desired results as the poll the British Humanist Society did a while ago o/c.

82% of those questioned say they see religion as a cause of division and tension between people. Only 16% disagree.

An impressively loaded question there...

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Bearing in mind what the phrase "religious person" means in contemporary British society, this a clever question indeed... these days it more-or-less means that someone is devoutly religious.
There isn't really a contradiction between describing yourself as a Christian and also as not being religious, strange as that might seem. Been the case for at least thirty years.

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This is news? This has always been the case to some degree (even in the 19th century), especially since the 1960's.

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That high? Suprising.

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Bearing in mind the distribution of declared atheists, agnostics etc in the last census, this is interesting. Not suprising though.

[Tender Branson]

Well, what would this survey look like in Poland, considering recent stories like this one:

A group of Polish members of parliament have submitted a bill seeking to proclaim Jesus Christ king of their overwhelmingly Catholic country, reports the BBC.

Forty-six deputies - 10% of the lower house - signed the bill, which was tabled earlier this week, reports say.

Some Polish clerics however have criticised the move as unnecessary.

If the bill becomes law, Jesus will follow the path of the Virgin Mary, who was declared honorary queen of Poland by King John Casimir 350 years ago.

The motion has been backed by MPs from the far right League of Polish families (LPR), the conservative Law and Justice (PiS) party and the Peasants' Party (PSL).

They argued Jesus should be made king on both theological and historical grounds.

PiS deputy Artur Gorski said colleagues were "praying in the parliamentary chapel for [Jesus'] coronation", Reuters news agency reported.

But Monsignor Tadeusz Pieronek, a member of Poland's episcopate and rector at Krakow's Papal Academy of Theology, dismissed the move.

"Christ doesn't need a parliamentary resolution to be the king of our hearts," AFP news agency quoted him as saying.

"These lawmakers would do better to look after their constitutional prerogatives and let religious institutions and the Church do our work," he said.

http://www.inspiremagazine.org.uk/news.aspx?action=view&id=710

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Different, obviously, as the religious demographics of overwhelmingly Catholic Poland are very different to the U.K's.

Recent Polish immigration to the U.K has resulted in a fairly large uptick in attendences at Catholic churches IIRC.

[afleitch]

Different, obviously, as the religious demographics of overwhelmingly Catholic Poland are very different to the U.K's.

Recent Polish immigration to the U.K has resulted in a fairly large uptick in attendences at Catholic churches IIRC.

That's true- it's noticable where I live- so much so that they wish to recruit Polish priests. (They have to recruit priests anyway because they are suffering a severe shortage. I could point to statistics showing the downturn linked to the liberalisation of societal attitudes towards homosexuality...but I won't be controversial ) The number of Poles in Scotland is betwee 70-100,000 probably closer to the 100,000 mark which makes them the largest 'ethnic minority' in Scotland.

[Michael Z]

I wonder how many of the people asked made a distinction between organised mass religion and personal beliefs. AFAIK religion is seen as a very personal issue in Britain, something you keep to yourself. Perhaps that explains some of these numbers.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

In politics if there is one thing worse than santimonious religious types who want to force their beliefs down our throats it's the hip, smug "religion is a cancer on humanity" types. Seriously.

I just wanted to let that out..

[opebo]

In politics if there is one thing worse than santimonious religious types who want to force their beliefs down our throats it's the hip, smug "religion is a cancer on humanity" types. Seriously.

No, to be intolerant of intolerance is to be tolerant.

[Peter]

This "poll" is even more entertaining when viewed in the light of this previous "poll". I have come to the conclusion that any poll on a religious topic in this country is a waste of time and money.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I have come to the conclusion that any poll on a religious topic in this country is a waste of time and money.

Sensible conclusion really

There's an interesting tendency for people asked questions on a religious topic to give the answer that they assume the person asking the question wants...

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

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Religion does more harm than good - poll

82% say faith causes tension in country where two thirds are not religious

Of course, truth causes friction:

Mat 10:34-36 "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn
     'a man against his father,
      a daughter against her mother,
      a daughter-in-law against her motherinlaw—
     a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.' "

[afleitch]

Please, in the love of all that is holy, please if you are going to comment on this topic pleased give us a rational and structured argument that does not compose of a solitary bible reference.

[Gabu]

Please, in the love of all that is holy, please if you are going to comment on this topic pleased give us a rational and structured argument that does not compose of a solitary bible reference.

That's kind of like asking a computer to give a result that does not require electricity.

[KEmperor]

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Religion does more harm than good - poll

82% say faith causes tension in country where two thirds are not religious

Of course, truth causes friction:

Mat 10:34-36 "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn
     'a man against his father,
      a daughter against her mother,
      a daughter-in-law against her motherinlaw—
     a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.' "

Clearly Jesus supports family values.  The family that kills each other with swords stays together.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

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Religion does more harm than good - poll

82% say faith causes tension in country where two thirds are not religious

Of course, truth causes friction:

Mat 10:34-36 "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn
     'a man against his father,
      a daughter against her mother,
      a daughter-in-law against her motherinlaw—
     a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.' "

Clearly Jesus supports family values.  The family that kills each other with swords stays together.

Lawl

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Considering that they have the Church of England, I'm surprised the number is only 82% .

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Link


Religion does more harm than good - poll

82% say faith causes tension in country where two thirds are not religious

Of course, truth causes friction:

Mat 10:34-36 "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn
     'a man against his father,
      a daughter against her mother,
      a daughter-in-law against her motherinlaw
     a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.' "

Please, in the love of all that is holy, please if you are going to comment on this topic pleased give us a rational and structured argument that does not compose of a solitary bible reference.

What's not to understand? 

Jesus was speaking about how the world was going to hate those who believe in him.  And he specifically mentioned that those who accept him will face persecution even from family members. 

And since the majority of the world rejected Jesus' message and even persecuted family members that believe in Christ, it is no surprise that 82% find religion destructive.

The world has always thought the teachings of Christ were destructive:

[Christ accused of stirring up trouble]...Luke 23:5 "He stirs up the people all over Judea by his teaching. He started in Galilee and has come all the way here."

[The Apostles accused of stirring up trouble]....Acts 5:28 "We gave you strict orders not to teach in this name," he said. "Yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching."

Why is that so difficult to comprehend?
 

[Joe Republic]

What's not to understand? 

(Bible Babble)

Why is that so difficult to comprehend?

His post was not a declaration of ignorance, but a request; one that you have clearly misunderstood.  Here it is again:

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It may well be the case that each and every stand-alone Bible quote makes every point you could ever want to make, but to many of us they are simply unreadable garbage that seem almost completely irrelevant without some kind of explanatory note.  Hence the last nine words of Afleitch's post, particularly.

[??????????]

Please, in the love of all that is holy, please if you are going to comment on this topic pleased give us a rational and structured argument that does not compose of a solitary bible reference.

Post dodge.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

While I think jmfcst has a tendency to view everything thru the prism of the Bible, even where religion is at best tangential to the argument, it's hardly unreasonable for him to quote the Bible in a thread about people's views of religion.  It would be nice if he could broaden his perspective to realize that the poll was slanted to be negative against all religion and not just Christianity, but he's never shown a tendency to be that ecumenical in the past.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

While I think jmfcst has a tendency to view everything thru the prism of the Bible, even where religion is at best tangential to the argument, it's hardly unreasonable for him to quote the Bible in a thread about people's views of religion.  It would be nice if he could broaden his perspective to realize that the poll was slanted to be negative against all religion and not just Christianity, but he's never shown a tendency to be that ecumenical in the past.

this is not rocket science:

Point 1) If the people in this poll thought religion led to salvation, then they would NOT believe religion does more harm than good.

Conclusion)  The majority in this poll reject Christianity and view Christianity as doing more harm than good

And since non-believers see Christianity as doing more harm than good, they persecute Christians…just as Jesus himself was persecuted because non-believers thought Christ himself did more harm than good.  If non-believers thought Jesus did more good than harm, they would not have crucified the Christ.

This persecution of Christians by non-believers, even among family members,  is exactly what Jesus was referring to when he said:

Mat 10:34"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn
   " 'a man against his father,
      a daughter against her mother,
   a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law -
    36a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.'”

[KEmperor]

All true, but it doesn't support or discredit the idea that religion does more harm than good.  Hence, irrelevant if you are trying to debate the issue.  All you are proving is that you know of bible passages that say Jesus knew some people didn't like him and his ideas.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

then they would NOT believe religion does more harm than good.

The 82% question was a rigged one designed to get a nice high number to make a sensationalist headline out of.
Besides, when people think of religion they don't always think of Christianity you know...

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Then why did about two-thirds of the people question in the poll consider themselves to be Christians?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Btw, is it just me, or does he basically use the same post for any topic?

[afleitch]

Btw, is it just me, or does he basically use the same post for any topic?

He's a 'fisher' - he finds something remotely about religion or 'morals' and dumps something creamed from an online Bible that tends to have little relevance to the questions asked or the topic (eveb when asked not to in the topic headline). It's technically a form of trolling.