Gun Control

[??????????]

If a crook enters my house I do not know what he intends to do to my wife or daugthers. The minute he breaks in is the minute he meets his maker.

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

From my one year of law school training...
Rape is considered lethal force for the purpose of self-defense.   Unarmed robbery is not.  Some states have exceptions for defending your own home, but hte laws here are far fom universal.  Often, you don't have a "duty to retreat" from attacks in your own home, but still can't use force of greater magnitude than you are threatened with.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Actually, Burglary, Arson, Robbery, Rape and Mayhem (not styled 'aggravated assault' in most criminal/penal codes) can be a basis for use of lethal force in most states.

The stupid 'retreat' law is rejected in just about every state.  Even in those states with a retreat law, it is limited by the requirment that retreat is only required if the party being attacked reasonably believes he/she can retreat in safety.

[John Dibble]

I have another question. Why do you value the lives of criminals? To me, they are worthless - once you infringe upon the rights of others you lose yours as far as I'm concerned.

[CARLHAYDEN]

I presume your post was addressed to someone else.

[John Dibble]

I presume your post was addressed to someone else.

Yeah, Gov. Nick G in partricular, but any gun control advocate would do.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Do you notice how Nick keeps giving "seems" and "believes" and eschews facts.

I suggest that two words sharply divide people.  Many people "feel" irrational things, while others "think" before they say or post something.

BTW, if Bush does appear to be running away with the election in my state, I will probably vote for Badnarik.  If it appears to be close, I will hold my nose and vote Bush.

[John Dibble]

Well, what's your state? Gotta know I can make a call. Myself, I live in Georgia, conservative South(Atlanta is liberal though), so it'll be Bush no matter what I think.

I'd vote Libertarian anyways, because honestly I don't care for either Kerry or Bush.

[English]

I have tended to change my opinion on gun law. Basically I think so long as they're properly licenced people should be able to own guns if they wish. The UK has extremely tough gun laws however it hasn't stopped a relentless rise in gun crime. It's criminals who are the problem not responsible gun owners.

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

I have tended to change my opinion on gun law. Basically I think so long as they're properly licenced people should be able to own guns if they wish. The UK has extremely tough gun laws however it hasn't stopped a relentless rise in gun crime. It's criminals who are the problem not responsible gun owners.

What are the current gun crime rates in England?...just curious.

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

I presume your post was addressed to someone else.

Yeah, Gov. Nick G in partricular, but any gun control advocate would do.

I'm not specifically worried about the lives of criminals...more like people who might wander up to your house because they are confused, lost, or intoxicated, and might be shot for behaving erratically even though they mean no harm.  You shouldn't have the right to shoot someone just because they come on to your property or act belligerant.

I'm also worried that if people carry guns with them, arguments, fights, episodes of road rage, etc., might much more easily turn deadly.  A person who is drunk and gets in a fight, or who rear-ends your car is acting inappropriately and illegally, but they are not "criminals" in the sense that they are worthless to society and deserve to be shot.

People get angry all the time...that's only human...but we shouldn't give them an easy way to channel that anger into deadly force.

[English]

I have tended to change my opinion on gun law. Basically I think so long as they're properly licenced people should be able to own guns if they wish. The UK has extremely tough gun laws however it hasn't stopped a relentless rise in gun crime. It's criminals who are the problem not responsible gun owners.

What are the current gun crime rates in England?...just curious.

It's still pretty low compared to the US, however it is rising fast. Most importantly, the laws relating to gun ownership were toughened up in 1996 following the Dunblane massacre. Ever since then gun crime has rocketed!!

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I have tended to change my opinion on gun law. Basically I think so long as they're properly licenced people should be able to own guns if they wish. The UK has extremely tough gun laws however it hasn't stopped a relentless rise in gun crime. It's criminals who are the problem not responsible gun owners.

What are the current gun crime rates in England?...just curious.

It's still pretty low compared to the US, however it is rising fast. Most importantly, the laws relating to gun ownership were toughened up in 1996 following the Dunblane massacre. Ever since then gun crime has rocketed!!

Yeeeessssss... but they were rocketing before Dunblane. Most gun deaths in the U.K are the result of organised crime and sad moronic yobs with hollowed out replica's trying to be like organised crime...

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

I have tended to change my opinion on gun law. Basically I think so long as they're properly licenced people should be able to own guns if they wish. The UK has extremely tough gun laws however it hasn't stopped a relentless rise in gun crime. It's criminals who are the problem not responsible gun owners.

What are the current gun crime rates in England?...just curious.

It's still pretty low compared to the US, however it is rising fast. Most importantly, the laws relating to gun ownership were toughened up in 1996 following the Dunblane massacre. Ever since then gun crime has rocketed!!

Stats anyone?  Please?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I have tended to change my opinion on gun law. Basically I think so long as they're properly licenced people should be able to own guns if they wish. The UK has extremely tough gun laws however it hasn't stopped a relentless rise in gun crime. It's criminals who are the problem not responsible gun owners.

What are the current gun crime rates in England?...just curious.

It's still pretty low compared to the US, however it is rising fast. Most importantly, the laws relating to gun ownership were toughened up in 1996 following the Dunblane massacre. Ever since then gun crime has rocketed!!

Stats anyone?  Please?

Aha. There are so many methods used to calculate crime stats over here that no one really bothers with what they actually say anymore...

[English]

Al, but then don't criminals get guns from the black market anyway? Preventing responsible gun owners from indulging in their hobby is ridiculous. It hasn't really achieved anything since they're not the ones going around blowing people's heads off.
If anything, Dunblane should have been a warning to crack down on dangerous paedophiles, not guns. That guy was known to be odd for years, why was he given a licence?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Al, but then don't criminals get guns from the black market anyway? Preventing responsible gun owners from indulging in their hobby is ridiculous. It hasn't really achieved anything since they're not the ones going around blowing people's heads off.
If anything, Dunblane should have been a warning to crack down on dangerous paedophiles, not guns. That guy was known to be odd for years, why was he given a licence?

Very few people actually owned handguns, which is why the were easier to ban. Overall it's made handguns harder (but not impossible) to get... which is a good thing. Problem is those damn replicas...
What people forget is that gun laws were strict before Dunblane... mainly 'cos of the IRA I think.

[John Dibble]

I presume your post was addressed to someone else.

Yeah, Gov. Nick G in partricular, but any gun control advocate would do.

I'm not specifically worried about the lives of criminals...more like people who might wander up to your house because they are confused, lost, or intoxicated, and might be shot for behaving erratically even though they mean no harm.  You shouldn't have the right to shoot someone just because they come on to your property or act belligerant.

I'm also worried that if people carry guns with them, arguments, fights, episodes of road rage, etc., might much more easily turn deadly.  A person who is drunk and gets in a fight, or who rear-ends your car is acting inappropriately and illegally, but they are not "criminals" in the sense that they are worthless to society and deserve to be shot.

People get angry all the time...that's only human...but we shouldn't give them an easy way to channel that anger into deadly force.

From that site I linked earlier: "Armed citizens kill more crooks than do the police. Citizens shoot and kill at least twice as many criminals as police do every year (1,527 to 606) And readers of Newsweek learned that 'only 2 percent of civilian shootings involved an innocent person mistakenly identified as a criminal. The 'error rate' for the police, however, was 11 percent, more than five times as high.' "

[CARLHAYDEN]

Well, what's your state? Gotta know I can make a call. Myself, I live in Georgia, conservative South(Atlanta is liberal though), so it'll be Bush no matter what I think.

I'd vote Libertarian anyways, because honestly I don't care for either Kerry or Bush.

Arizona.

Apologize for McCain.

[CARLHAYDEN]

I presume your post was addressed to someone else.

Yeah, Gov. Nick G in partricular, but any gun control advocate would do.

I'm not specifically worried about the lives of criminals...more like people who might wander up to your house because they are confused, lost, or intoxicated, and might be shot for behaving erratically even though they mean no harm.  You shouldn't have the right to shoot someone just because they come on to your property or act belligerant.

I'm also worried that if people carry guns with them, arguments, fights, episodes of road rage, etc., might much more easily turn deadly.  A person who is drunk and gets in a fight, or who rear-ends your car is acting inappropriately and illegally, but they are not "criminals" in the sense that they are worthless to society and deserve to be shot.

People get angry all the time...that's only human...but we shouldn't give them an easy way to channel that anger into deadly force.

Your fears are groundless.

A trenchant and brilliant writer once noted that:

"An armed society is a polite society."

Visit a gun show or range some time and you will see somd of the best mannered people in the world.

From your posts you seem more than a little isolated.

[??????????]

Al and English prove that gun laws on normal citizens don't work. The problem is that criminals are getting the guns. They don't follow the law or care for it. So gun laws only really hurt good upstanding citizens.

[CARLHAYDEN]

It seems the M, Nick and Al have given up, as logic and facts consistenly beats emotions and unfounded beliefs.

[A18]

All federal gun control is unconstitutional, as if every other kind of federal arms control.

[opebo]

What a country - I cannot be prevented from buying a gun, but I can be prevented from buying sex!

[Bono]

What a country - I cannot be prevented from buying a gun, but I can be prevented from buying sex!

You can be prevented from buying a gun--like every automatic weapons registered after 1986.