Should DC be represented in the Senate?

[classical liberal]

The NSA is in MD, the DoD is in VA.  Really, 4th St East and eastward should be returned to MD, as should E St South and southward.  N St North and northward too (leaving the embassies within DC).  Tack on 24th West and Westward as well.

Basically leave NW up to K St, the Mall,  the Hill, SCOTUS, LOC, and 3 blocks out in each direction, plus a little outcropping for embassy way in NW.  There are no residences in that section of the city.  That way the population of the city proper becomes 0.  MD would gain a seat in congress, though Ms. Norton would probably take the seat.

[Nation]

The NSA is in MD, the DoD is in VA.  Really, 4th St East and eastward should be returned to MD, as should E St South and southward.  N St North and northward too (leaving the embassies within DC).  Tack on 24th West and Westward as well.

Basically leave NW up to K St, the Mall,  the Hill, SCOTUS, LOC, and 3 blocks out in each direction, plus a little outcropping for embassy way in NW.  There are no residences in that section of the city.  That way the population of the city proper becomes 0.  MD would gain a seat in congress, though Ms. Norton would probably take the seat.

THat's the best outline I've heard. Either way, MD and VA both become a little more liberal. Still, either they deserve a vote, or they shouldn't pay any taxes. One issue that I respect Al Sharpton for pursuing -- very few people outside of DC ever talk about representation.

[Akno21]

The NSA is in MD, the DoD is in VA.  Really, 4th St East and eastward should be returned to MD, as should E St South and southward.  N St North and northward too (leaving the embassies within DC).  Tack on 24th West and Westward as well.

Basically leave NW up to K St, the Mall,  the Hill, SCOTUS, LOC, and 3 blocks out in each direction, plus a little outcropping for embassy way in NW.  There are no residences in that section of the city.  That way the population of the city proper becomes 0.  MD would gain a seat in congress, though Ms. Norton would probably take the seat.

THat's the best outline I've heard. Either way, MD and VA both become a little more liberal. Still, either they deserve a vote, or they shouldn't pay any taxes. One issue that I respect Al Sharpton for pursuing -- very few people outside of DC ever talk about representation.

If there is one issue Al Sharpton will push very hard, it is that. It fits his human rights platform and it is mostly African-Americans involved.

[Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon]

For once, Tweed's right.

Sure.  I'll take two more Dem senators.

Lets face it:  The Dems will say yes because they want two more Dem senators, and the reps will say no because they DON'T want 2 more Dem senators.

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

What percentage of D.C. residents pay federal taxes?

15% at best I would surmise.  Have you been to that wasteland?

This is really offensive...
I'm sure the vast majority of DC residents pay federal taxes, in the form of payroll taxes and excise taxes if nothing else.  Do you think that only rich people should be represented?

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

We should give DC representation in the House and abolish the Senate.  

The politics behind DC's lack of representation shows how undemocratic the Senate really is....if giving a small number of people their appropriate representation would swing the political balance so much that partisanship totally overcomes fairness on this issue, that's a sign that the representative institution itself is irredeemably flawed.

[stry_cat]

If the people in DC really want to vote, they should move out of DC.  Heck you should move out of DC just because the quality of life and cost of living is a lot better in other places.

The other possible soltuion would be to give it back to MD.  I'm not sure they want it, but VA certaintly doesn't want it (heck we'd be happy to give Arlington back to DC).

It shouldn't be a state nor treated like a state.  

[7,052,770]

DC, and the rest of the territories, should have voting representation in the House, but not the Senate.

[Akno21]

DC, and the rest of the territories, should have voting representation in the House, but not the Senate.

Why not the Senate? Why should DC citizens not have the same rights has citizens of every other state?

[opebo]

What percentage of D.C. residents pay federal taxes?

15% at best I would surmise.  Have you been to that wasteland?

This is really offensive...
I'm sure the vast majority of DC residents pay federal taxes, in the form of payroll taxes and excise taxes if nothing else.  Do you think that only rich people should be represented?

Yes.  Or anyway some sort of property requirement.

[Fritz]

Even as a Democrat, I don't support DC being treated like a state and given senate representation.  DC is not a state, it was never intended to be one, and it has nothing in common with the 50 states.  Ok sure, there might be 2 states with less people than  DC, but those states have an extensive land area whereas DC does not.   It is a city and should not be treated as a state.

On the other hand, I fully support DC being given full House representation.  This would not be inconsistent; we would be treating the district as a congressional district, not as a state.

Actually I think the best idea is to have DC vote with Maryland in federal elections, for senators, presidential electors, and its own congress person.  This would require a constitutional amendment.   Republicans should love this idea, it takes away the 3 EV us Democrats have been guaranteed since 1964.  On the other hand, it also makes Maryland pretty much a lock for the Dems.  

[bejkuy]

What percentage of D.C. residents pay federal taxes?

15% at best I would surmise.  Have you been to that wasteland?

This is really offensive...
I'm sure the vast majority of DC residents pay federal taxes, in the form of payroll taxes and excise taxes if nothing else.  Do you think that only rich people should be represented?

I'd like to see D.C. try to support itself from it's own tax base.  If it is to enjoy the priviledges of statehood it needs to shoulder the responsibility as well.

[zorkpolitics]

DC should be part of MD then all its citizens would be able to vote for both Senators and Represenatives.

Interestingly MD doesn't want DC becuse MD don't want the voters from DC to "influence" its politics, so they have consistently opposed retrocession.  The DC government also opposes joining MD because they don't want their power reduced.  So effectively the Democrats in MD and DC have prevented the voters of DC gaining representation for the last 50 yrs

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

DC, and the rest of the territories, should have voting representation in the House, but not the Senate.

Why not the Senate? Why should DC citizens not have the same rights has citizens of every other state?

Well for one thingm doing so would be an incredibly difficult amendment to pass.
From Article V fo the Constituion:
"Provided ... that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate."
To give anything other than a state representation in the Senate would require all fifty states to approve the amendment.  The Electoral College and the House of Representatives do not face those hurdles.

[jimrtex]

But definately, (unless the DC voters are allowed to vote in Maryland senatorial elections - i'm not sure on this one can someone fill me in?)

Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution is discretionary whether there even is a capital district (there wasn't when the capital was in New York City).  And the part of the District of Columbia south of the Potomac was given back to Virginia in 1846.  If the area north of the Potomac was given back to Maryland, the federal government would retain jurisdiction over its land and buildings, just like on military bases, and national parks.  People who live on military bases and in national parks vote in the state where they are located, so even if there was some live-in staff they could vote.  Maryland would get another congressional district (with some of the area in Prince Georges or Montgomery counties tacked on to a Washington district and other shifts (the population of DC is about 90,000 short of the average for a 9-seat Maryland+Washington., the current Maryland districts are about 10,000 over, so the shift is fairly small).

It would also be possible to amend the Constitution to permit people in the District to participate in congressional elections as if they lived in Maryland, but that seems unnecessarily complicated, just so that the federal government can regulate residential areas that have no more to do with government than similar areas in suburban Virginia and Maryland.

Note that Fairfax County,VA and Prince Georges and Montgomery counties,MD each have more people than live in Washington.

[opebo]

We should give DC representation in the House and abolish the Senate.  

The politics behind DC's lack of representation shows how undemocratic the Senate really is....if giving a small number of people their appropriate representation would swing the political balance so much that partisanship totally overcomes fairness on this issue, that's a sign that the representative institution itself is irredeemably flawed.

The Senate is intended to be undemocratic.

[jimrtex]

Basically leave NW up to K St, the Mall,  the Hill, SCOTUS, LOC, and 3 blocks out in each direction, plus a little outcropping for embassy way in NW.

Why does it matter where the embassies are?  Are the areas where US embassies are in other countries different than neighboring commercial or residential areas?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

the embassies are officially considered part of their respective countries, not the US, so they aren't even part of DC actually.

[Nym90]

Yes, it should be a state, but even if not, it deserves at least representation in the Senate.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Yes, it should be a state, but even if not, it deserves at least representation in the Senate.

But as I said before, it is impossible for  DC to get to vote for Senators without being a state, because unlike any other constitutional provision, changing the representation in the Senate from am equal number of votes for each state would require all fifty states to agree to the change.

[cwelsch]

I'm a current resident of DC, and I lived in Northern Virginia for a year before this, and I went to college in DC for four years total.

We should stop paying all federal taxes immediately, and be allowed to have the No Taxation Without Representation license plates back.  Bush rescinded them as soon as he moved in, the jerk.

The NSA is in MD, the DoD is in VA.  Really, 4th St East and eastward should be returned to MD, as should E St South and southward.  N St North and northward too (leaving the embassies within DC).  Tack on 24th West and Westward as well.

Basically leave NW up to K St, the Mall,  the Hill, SCOTUS, LOC, and 3 blocks out in each direction, plus a little outcropping for embassy way in NW.  There are no residences in that section of the city.  That way the population of the city proper becomes 0.  MD would gain a seat in congress, though Ms. Norton would probably take the seat.

Not entirely true, as I know a number of people who lived in NW south of K but north of the Mall.  Foggy Bottom is there, and trust me they have quite the neighborhood association.  You'd even have the Foggy Bottom metro stop inside the district borders.  There are also apartment buildings inside there, as close as a few blocks from the OEOB.  So, make sure you don't forget apartments are residences as well.  I think a couple were in NW on F between 20 and 21, and definitely others in the surrounding blocks.


Anyway, in the tiny district you've made, I'd be a Marylander since I live just north of M St SW.  I don't have a huge problem with Maryland, I just would have to get used to a different kind of grumbling.

I'd say just offer the entire District to Maryland, at least for voting purposes, and let Maryland vote on whether they want it.  For apportionment purposes, DC is Maryland, and for Congressional purposes any DC-area representatives are in the Maryland delegation (very important to specify if the 12th comes into effect).  Or hell, let MD annex DC, but DC gets to keep its self-contained status for city council purposes.

I don't expecially care, this place is beautiful (well, the monuments and the Mall) but politically it's a hellhole, a wasteland of taxes, regulations and overuse of city power.  


I go to freakin' Wendy's, I have to pay a 10% sales tax!  And they round UP!  I think the official full rate is 13%!  Thirteent!  It's a chokehold.  Grahhhhhh.  Makes me freakin' angry.  I can't wait to move to NH.  No income tax, no sales tax, and relatively reasonable property taxes - at least compared to Vermont (go to hell Dean, your laws are raising taxes on Vermonters every year for a decade) for Massachusetts.

So, DC should just go back to Maryland.  In the future, we'll only let in states two at a time, to balance out the Senate, if at all.  Although if the Puerto Ricans want a state, I say let 'em in.  I also wouldn't mind a sweeping state to cover the Pacific territories, but they're sparse and distant from each other, so they very well might mind.  Interestingly enough I think the Samoans are almost all Republicans or Independents (maybe a quirk of history, the GOP got the island?  I dunno).

[King]

Although DC would create a Democratic Senate Majority which I would like, I don't think it would be fair to the GOP.

[??????????]

DC should be squared off into MD. The Governmental areas should remain the DC, kind of like it was intended to be. I agree w/whoever posted that Washington Common needs to have a population of "0".

[ijohn57s]

I think the only way D.C. should get Senators or voting Representatives is if it became a State.

[A18]

DC is a dysfunctional hellhole, completely dependent upon federal funding. What they pay in doesn't nearly account for the welfare these 50 states give to the SOBs.

We can exempt them from federal taxes when they're exempt from federal welfare.

What remains of DC was taken from Maryland. Let DC residents vote for federal officials as citizens of Maryland.