H. Res. 78 - giving delegates a full vote

[MODU]

H. Res. 78

HRES 78 IH


110th CONGRESS

1st Session

H. RES. 78
Amending the Rules of the House of Representatives to permit Delegates and the Resident Commissioner to the Congress to cast votes in the Committee of the Whole House on the state of the Union.


IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES


January 19, 2007

Mr. HOYER (for himself, Mr. CLYBURN, Mr. EMANUEL, Mr. LARSON of Connecticut, Mr. BECERRA, and Ms. SLAUGHTER) submitted the following resolution; which was referred to the Committee on Rules


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RESOLUTION
Amending the Rules of the House of Representatives to permit Delegates and the Resident Commissioner to the Congress to cast votes in the Committee of the Whole House on the state of the Union.

Resolved,


SECTION 1. VOTING BY DELEGATES AND RESIDENT COMMISSIONER IN COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE.

(a) Permitting Votes To Be Cast- Clause 3(a) of rule III of the Rules of the House of Representatives is amended to read as follows:

`3. (a) In a Committee of the Whole House on the state of the Union, each Delegate and the Resident Commissioner shall possess the same powers and privileges as Members of the House. Each Delegate and the Resident Commissioner shall be elected to serve on standing committees in the same manner as Members of the House and shall possess in such committees the same powers and privileges as the other members of the committee.'.

(b) Appointment of Chair- The first sentence of clause 1 of rule XVIII of the Rules of the House of Representatives is amended by striking `a Chairman' and inserting `a Member, Delegate, or the Resident Commissioner as Chairman'.

(c) Repeating of Certain Votes- Clause 6 of rule XVIII of the Rules of the House of Representatives is amended by adding at the end the following new paragraph:

`(h) Whenever a recorded vote on any question has been decided by a margin within which the votes cast by the Delegates and the Resident Commissioner have been decisive, the Committee of the Whole shall rise and the Speaker shall put such question de novo without intervening motion. Upon the announcement of the vote on that question, the Committee of the Whole shall resume its sitting without intervening motion.'.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I support this.

[Gabu]

Can someone translate this into English?  I think I understand what this is doing, but I'm not 100% sure.

[MODU]

Can someone translate this into English?  I think I understand what this is doing, but I'm not 100% sure.

Basically, the representatives from the various territories will have a full vote in Congress.  However, since their populations are less than that of the districts within the 50 states, their vote will carry a greater weight (per person) than the states, plus they can vote on our taxes even though they are exempt from paying taxes themselves.  So, the bill extends the rights provided only to the states via the Constitution to the territories.

[Gabu]

Can someone translate this into English?  I think I understand what this is doing, but I'm not 100% sure.

Basically, the representatives from the various territories will have a full vote in Congress.  However, since their populations are less than that of the districts within the 50 states, their vote will carry a greater weight (per person) than the states, plus they can vote on our taxes even though they are exempt from paying taxes themselves.  So, the bill extends the rights provided only to the states via the Constitution to the territories.

Oh, okay, that's what I thought.

[KEmperor]

Wouldn't something like this require a Constitutional amendment?

[Silent Hunter]

Sounds like it only applies to when the House is as a committee.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

This restores the Rules of the House on the subject of delegate votes  to where they were before the GOP took control of the House in 1995.  The Committee of the Whole is mainly a procedural device the House uses to let debate take place without having a quorum actually present and on the floor of the House at all times.  Because of the provision that if a delegate vote is the determining factor is a vote of the Committee of the Whole that the Committee automatically rises and the House itself is called into session (where the delegates have no vote) this is mainly a symbolic measure that gives the delegates the right to cast "votes" on the final passage of legislation that have no effect on what gets passed into law, since if it did, the House minus the delegates votes on it again.

[Padfoot]

Can someone translate this into English?  I think I understand what this is doing, but I'm not 100% sure.

Basically, the representatives from the various territories will have a full vote in Congress.  However, since their populations are less than that of the districts within the 50 states, their vote will carry a greater weight (per person) than the states, plus they can vote on our taxes even though they are exempt from paying taxes themselves.  So, the bill extends the rights provided only to the states via the Constitution to the territories.

If Puerto Rico were a state it would be ranked 27th in population just slightly bigger than Oregon and smaller than Kentucky.  If it were a state it would also have at least 5 votes in the House.  Assuming that all five delegates vote the same, the votes per person will not in fact be greater than that of the states it will be less.  Also, considering that the territories have no representation in the Senate, their voting power is further diminished.  And furthermore, as I beleive Sen. Ernest mentioned, if the vote margin falls within 5 votes, there is a re-vote in which the delegates do not cast their votes.  Thus, this is largely a ceremonial measure and will have no affect on your taxes.  And finally, when the Democrats last held power this rule was in effect and was deemed Constitutional during previous court challenges in the 1990s.  Quit whining and let them vote.

[MODU]

True, Puerto Rico is the exception. 

[MAS117]

This bill ONLY gives them the right to vote when the House is in the Committee of the Whole. To my knowledge they usually arent, so the voting rights is under only certain circumstances. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

[Verily]

Can someone translate this into English?  I think I understand what this is doing, but I'm not 100% sure.

Basically, the representatives from the various territories will have a full vote in Congress.  However, since their populations are less than that of the districts within the 50 states, their vote will carry a greater weight (per person) than the states, plus they can vote on our taxes even though they are exempt from paying taxes themselves.  So, the bill extends the rights provided only to the states via the Constitution to the territories.

Except Puerto Rico, which has a larger population than 24 states, and DC, which has a larger population than Wyoming.

I would support the measure for DC and Puerto Rico, but, if they're to get a full vote, USVI should be lumped into Puerto Rico; and Guam, NMI and AS combined. (NMI does not currently have a House delegate.)

[© tweed]

Is this constitutional?

[Verily]

The Constitution gives the Congress leeway to do more or less whatever it wants regarding its own membership. There's nothing in the Constitution regarding "Resident Commissioners" and "Non-voting delegates" in the first place; they were crated by Congress.

[MAS117]

The bill passes the House today.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070124/ap_on_go_co/house_delegates

[MODU]

"It's simply the right thing to do," said Virgin Islands Del. Donna Christensen, a Democrat. "We can make this small step toward inclusion of all Americans."

Good.  Let's include them in paying taxes and everything else then.  Oh wait, they don't want that.

[Ebowed]

What about states who get more federal aid in proportion to the taxes they pay than other states?  States like Alaska take money from states like New York and New Jersey with no real benefit for the states footing the bill.  That's just as unfair, as is the fact that small states have more representation in Congress per person than larger states.  Inequality in Congress is nothing new, but here I think the benefit of allowing these territories to be represented is a good thing.  Also, what about the District of Columbia which pays taxes?

[MODU]

What about states who get more federal aid in proportion to the taxes they pay than other states?  States like Alaska take money from states like New York and New Jersey with no real benefit for the states footing the bill.  That's just as unfair, as is the fact that small states have more representation in Congress per person than larger states.  Inequality in Congress is nothing new, but here I think the benefit of allowing these territories to be represented is a good thing.  Also, what about the District of Columbia which pays taxes?

Federal funding to support states is different than giving territories voting rights in Congress.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Passed on a virtually party-line vote.

One Republican, Dan Burton of Indiana, voted for, one Democrat, Gene Taylor, voted against.

I'm surprised at Burton. He's rather conservative.

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2007/roll057.xml

[J.G.H.]

On an interesting note, Dreier and the Republicans really fought passage for this on the house floor; through procedural maneuvering, it basically took a total of five votes before final passage, with a motion to adjourn vote thrown in the middle for good measure.

[Padfoot]

I really fail to understand why Republicans are so vehemently opposed to this.  Its a largely symbolic gesture and it really doesn't give either party more or less power than they already had.  Also, it actually gives the constituents of the delegates a way to judge their performance in Congress.

[MODU]

I really fail to understand why Republicans are so vehemently opposed to this.  Its a largely symbolic gesture and it really doesn't give either party more or less power than they already had.  Also, it actually gives the constituents of the delegates a way to judge their performance in Congress.

Voting is a state function in the Congress, not a territorial one.  Even for symbolic cases, there is no reason they should be voting.  They have a delegate there to express the concerns of their local government, but since they are not states, their action stops there.  Pandering to the territories in this manner just creates unnecessary confusion and wastes time (like having to revote if the vote is too close).

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Pandering to the territories in this manner just creates unnecessary confusion and wastes time (like having to revote if the vote is too close).

I don't agree about it causing confusion, but while it may occasionally waste time, in general that's a good thing in my opinion as the fewer laws Congress has the chance to pass, the better.  I fully agree with the sentiments expressed by David Brinkley in his book Washington Goes to War that our Republic was doomed when they installed air conditioning in Congress and thus enabled it to stay in session during the summer.