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Author Topic: Kerry's Catholicism...does it matter?  (Read 5275 times)
Sibboleth
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« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2004, 04:35:56 am »
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Kerry's Catholicism might hurt him a little bit in the SC primary, but other than that it won't be much of a factor.
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« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2004, 09:39:02 am »
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Actually, John Kerry isn't even Catholic any more.   By publicly voting for abortion he has automatically excommunicated himself.

I'm guessing that Kerry is not going to play up his nominal Catholicism.   If he did, it would start coming out if he attends Mass with any regularity, and if he got an annulment before remarrying.  

It is worth noting that I just checked his official campaign biography and found no mention of his Catholicism.   I suspect that it will hardly be mentioned in the campaign.

As for the comparisons to the other Catholic Sen. JFK from Massachusetts, in the immortal words of Lloyd Bentsen:

"Senator, I served with Jack Kennedy. I knew Jack Kennedy. Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy."

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Sibboleth
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« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2004, 10:16:52 am »
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Quote
By publicly voting for abortion he has automatically excommunicated himself.

That's insane.

Quote
"Senator, I served with Jack Kennedy. I knew Jack Kennedy. Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy."

Which was actuallu adressed at Mr PotatoE...
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« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2004, 10:24:54 am »
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By publicly voting for abortion he has automatically excommunicated himself.

That's insane.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

It's also true....

Protests can be addressed to JPII, c/o The Vatican City, Rome.

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Sibboleth
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« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2004, 10:36:22 am »
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I never could understand certain things about Catholicism...
Papal Infallibility for example...
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Mort from NewYawk
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« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2004, 11:21:51 am »
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Lieberman's Jewishness could hurt him, but not because of traditional anti-Semitism, which is a form of racism.

Today's new emerging anti-Semitism does not take the form of racial bigotry as much as anti-Zionism, that is, the sentiment that Israel does not have the right to exist as a Jewish state. Although more prevalent in the Mideast and continental Europe, this sentiment is found among some Democrats on the far left here.

Although Lieberman certainly is a strong supporter of Israel, he is not a supporter of Sharon's policies - in Israel he would be considered to be on the left.

While I don't see Lieberman as a nominee losing a northeast Democratic state, I could see his support among Democrats as more tepid in California or Oregon.

However,  his conservatism and emphasis on values would make him competitive in a number of more conservative midwest and possibly southern states.
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afleitch
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« Reply #31 on: January 29, 2004, 01:21:23 pm »
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I find it quite disturbing that any candidates religion or even lack of one should matter in the USA at all. However I know that it does. Some of the filth spread about Albert Smith back in '28 such as 'building a tunnel from the White House to the Vatican' was obscene. Kennedy in '60 was very eloquent when faced with this question. Kerry should not have a problem. If a Democrat wants Bush out, they will vote for the Democratic candidate regardless of faith. And if they do have an issue with his religion, they have no right calling themselves Democrat let alone liberal.
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« Reply #32 on: January 29, 2004, 01:29:14 pm »
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I think it might even help Kerry a little that he's Catholic, because a small number of Catholic voters might be swayed by it.  I'm not that up on the demographics of Catholicism but I'm guessing it might help in PA and OH.  For the most part though any Dem is going to win the heavily Catholic states, and there is no way any Dem is going to win any of the Protestant Bible Belt states, whatever the candidate's religion.
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NHPolitico
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« Reply #33 on: January 29, 2004, 03:25:17 pm »
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The pope was just advising as he does to Catholics, I think it was an abortion case or law.  

Kerry just handled it poorly.  If I'd have been the pope I'd have been like Fine, EXCUMMINICATION for you then.  but that is why he is the holy father and I am not Smiley  more merciful.

You can run for Atlas Fantasy Election Pope.
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« Reply #34 on: January 29, 2004, 03:33:32 pm »
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You can run for Atlas Fantasy Election Pope.
Please, no fantasy pope.
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« Reply #35 on: January 29, 2004, 03:59:49 pm »
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The pope was just advising as he does to Catholics, I think it was an abortion case or law.  

Kerry just handled it poorly.  If I'd have been the pope I'd have been like Fine, EXCUMMINICATION for you then.  but that is why he is the holy father and I am not Smiley  more merciful.

I thought it was on the Iraq War, which the pope criticized a lot.
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« Reply #36 on: January 29, 2004, 04:03:04 pm »
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The pope was just advising as he does to Catholics, I think it was an abortion case or law.  

Kerry just handled it poorly.  If I'd have been the pope I'd have been like Fine, EXCUMMINICATION for you then.  but that is why he is the holy father and I am not Smiley  more merciful.

You can run for Atlas Fantasy Election Pope.
Haha, lol,, that's really funny! Smiley
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bejkuy
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« Reply #37 on: January 29, 2004, 06:51:22 pm »
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<<<While I don't see Lieberman as a nominee losing a northeast Democratic state, I could see his support among Democrats as more tepid in California or Oregon.>>>

If Lieberman had less support in Oregon and California it wouldn't be because he's Jewish.

Let's see. Oregon, not exactly a heavily Jewish state, has a Jewish Senatator as well as a Jewish mayor of the largest (by far) city.

California has 2 Jewish senators as well as a slew of reps that are Jewish.

Last time I checked, all 7 democratic reps from southern california that weren't black or hispanic were Jewish.

What is the logic behind your reasoning Mort?

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Mort from NewYawk
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« Reply #38 on: January 30, 2004, 12:42:13 pm »
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<<<While I don't see Lieberman as a nominee losing a northeast Democratic state, I could see his support among Democrats as more tepid in California or Oregon.>>>

If Lieberman had less support in Oregon and California it wouldn't be because he's Jewish.

Let's see. Oregon, not exactly a heavily Jewish state, has a Jewish Senatator as well as a Jewish mayor of the largest (by far) city.

California has 2 Jewish senators as well as a slew of reps that are Jewish.

Last time I checked, all 7 democratic reps from southern california that weren't black or hispanic were Jewish.

What is the logic behind your reasoning Mort?


The support of Lieberman among hard left Democrats would not be tepid because he's Jewish, but because he would be perceived as a Zionist Jew (supportive of Israel as a Jewish state, not open to compromises such as the "one-state" solution).

Why do I feel west coast lefties would be more unhappy with him than the east coast variety?

It's rather unscientific, but among my liberal friends (and I have many on both coasts), I find those in OR and CA more dogmatic, more affiliated with campaign organizations, and less inclined to support Israel as the collective global representation of the Jewish people (regardless of their religion) than my friends in the Northeast.

The Democrats are in a very agitated state this year - my arguments for Lieberman are met with hostility and disdain ("You sound like a Republican!" [said with disgust]).
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nclib
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« Reply #39 on: January 30, 2004, 02:26:14 pm »
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I think it might even help Kerry a little that he's Catholic, because a small number of Catholic voters might be swayed by it.  I'm not that up on the demographics of Catholicism but I'm guessing it might help in PA and OH.  For the most part though any Dem is going to win the heavily Catholic states, and there is no way any Dem is going to win any of the Protestant Bible Belt states, whatever the candidate's religion.

Western PA is heavily Catholic and is usually a swing vote. This would probably ensure a Dem victory in PA, but Dems would likely win it in a 50-50 race anyway.
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« Reply #40 on: January 30, 2004, 02:49:01 pm »
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The reason, Realpolitik, with me speaking as an erstwhile Catholic, that Papal infallibility doesn't make sense is because it's a ridiculous idea. As you know, it's not all around infallibility, but infallibility when he speaks ex cathedra. But if you stay abreast of what kind of ex cathedra they're churning out, you'd see fallibility as a very real facet.
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Sibboleth
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« Reply #41 on: January 30, 2004, 04:24:31 pm »
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The reason, Realpolitik, with me speaking as an erstwhile Catholic, that Papal infallibility doesn't make sense is because it's a ridiculous idea. As you know, it's not all around infallibility, but infallibility when he speaks ex cathedra. But if you stay abreast of what kind of ex cathedra they're churning out, you'd see fallibility as a very real facet.

There was a great scene in Father Ted about that...Smiley
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