Major Gun Control In The New Congress
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Bono
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« on: January 28, 2007, 08:38:09 AM »

http://gunowners.org/a012307.htm

Gun Owners of America Legislative Alert
-- Oppose McCarthy Gun Control Bill, H.R. 297
Gun Owners of America
8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102
Springfield, VA 22151
(703)321-8585

Tuesday, January 23, 2007

The first major anti-gun bill of the new Congress has already been introduced, and it could prove to be the most serious threat to the Second Amendment we face under the new congressional leadership.

On the first full day of the new Congress, anti-gun Rep. Carolyn McCarthy introduced H.R. 297, the most massive expansion of the Brady law since it passed in 1993. This is a bill you helped kill last year, but the new House leadership will be even more eager to pass it than were their predecessors.

This bill provides, in the form of grants, about $1 billion to the states to "provide the National Instant Criminal Background Check System [NICS] with all records concerning persons who are prohibited from possessing or receiving a firearm under subsection (g) or (n) of section 922 of title 18, United States Code, regardless of the elapsed time since the disqualifying event."

Covered under this bill are records pertaining to the Lautenberg misdemeanor gun ban, lists of persons under indictment, mental health records, records relevant to the identification of illegal aliens and other records.

NICS is the system used by the FBI to conduct a background check prior to a firearm sale by a federally licensed gun dealer. Most people are aware that NICS records include a list of convicted felons, but there are many other categories of persons who are prohibited from possessing firearms for which computerized lists may not be available. It is these categories that are targeted by this bill.

For instance, the bill expands upon the unconstitutional Lautenberg misdemeanor gun ban [922 (g)(9)]. This gun ban, passed as an amendment to a 1996 omnibus spending bill and signed into law by President Clinton, was originally introduced by leading anti-gun Senators Frank Lautenberg, Dianne Feinstein, and Edward Kennedy.

Under the Lautenberg ban, people who have committed very minor offenses that include pushing, shoving or, in some cases, merely yelling at a family member can no longer own a firearm for self-defense.

The Lautenberg gun ban should be repealed, not expanded.

The bill also seeks to computerize records of persons "under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year." Such persons, though not even convicted of the crime in question, are prohibited from possessing a firearm.

The gun grabbers are seeking to force the states to provide the federal government all of these indictment records, updated quarterly. Given the maxim among those in the legal profession that prosecutors can get a grand jury to "indict a ham sandwich," this, too, is a gun prohibition that should be repealed, not expanded.

Mental health records are also covered under the McCarthy bill.

This could have a significant impact on American servicemen, especially those returning from combat situations and who seek some type of psychiatric care. Often, veterans who have suffered from post-traumatic stress disorder have been deemed as mentally "incompetent" and are prohibited from owning guns under 18 U.S.C. 922(g)(4). Records of those instances certainly exist, and, in 1999, the Department of Veterans Administration turned over 90,000 names of veterans to the FBI for inclusion into the NICS background check system.

Mental health records can also have a future impact on young people, as this country trends closer to mandatory mental health screening for students. In a 2003 report by a subcommittee of the President's New Freedom Commission on Mental Health, the author states that "The problem of emotional disorders in children is large -- 20% of all children are affected -- and it seems to be growing." It is unknown how these people will be categorized in the future.

The fact that metal health 'experts,' a notoriously anti-gun community, would have a say in who is allowed to possess a firearm is, quite frankly, frightening. Many in the profession would just as soon consider anyone who owns a gun as 'mentally incompetent.'

Another sobering thought is how computerized data are often mishandled. Consider the disturbing news reports that 25 million Social Security number records of veterans were hacked. The more that our private data gets added into government computers, the more likely we are to have our identity compromised.

Perhaps the provision that would lead to the greatest number of 'fishing expeditions' is that related to illegal aliens.

Federal law prohibits illegal aliens from owning guns. The bill requires all relevant data related to who is in this country illegally. But what records pertaining to illegal aliens from the states would be relevant? Perhaps a better question would be, what records are not relevant?

In order to identify illegal aliens, "relevant" records could allow the FBI to demand state tax returns of all citizens, employment records, library records (we've already seen how these have been deemed relevant to terrorism investigations), DMV and hospital records -- all in the name of making sure that you're not an illegal.

The sponsor of the bill, Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, is one of the most virulent anti-gunners in the entire Congress. Of the 32 cosponsors of the bill last year, 31 were GOA "F" rated, one was rated "D." These representatives support the bill because it enhances their gun control agenda, not because they are concerned about protecting your Second Amendment rights.

Also among the bill's supporters are anti-Second Amendment groups like the Brady Campaign and Americans for Gun Safety (AGS). In fact, the McCarthy bill is taken point by point from a 2002 ASG "report" entitled "How America's Faulty Background Check System Allows Criminals to Get Guns."

This bill was first introduced in 2002 by Rep. McCarthy and Sen. Chuck Schumer. It passed out of the House that year, and was only defeated by a GOA-supported filibuster by former Sen. Bob Smith (R-NH). Since the bill has already been around for several years, look for Speaker Nancy Pelosi to put this bill on the fast track as a way to thank Sarah Brady and her anti-gun cohorts.

The Brady law needs to be repealed, not expanded to allow anti-gun administrations to find new ways to strip citizens of their Second Amendment rights.

ACTION: Gun Owners of America is the only national pro-gun organization opposing the McCarthy bill, so it is imperative that you contact your representative immediately. Please take action today and spread the word about H.R. 297! We need all the help we can get.
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Frodo
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« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2007, 10:15:38 AM »

If Democrats are smart, this will be killed in the cradle before it reaches mainstream national news sources.  Unless, of course, they have already decided to commit political suicide.
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adam
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« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2007, 10:44:56 AM »

I agree with Frodo. If there is one way to really screw up your chances of picking up traditionally Republican states...messing with the second ammendment would be it.
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David S
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« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2007, 03:26:33 PM »
« Edited: January 28, 2007, 03:29:13 PM by David S »

This is one of the disturbing things about the Democrats; They are in power for less than one month and already they are attacking the second amendment. Imagine what they would do if they controlled the White House as well.

It was actually the dems anti-gun agenda which drove me away from the party many years ago, and started my transition to Libertarian.
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Ebowed
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« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2007, 05:44:23 PM »

I don't support this.
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Smash255
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« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2007, 06:18:42 PM »

congrats to the congresswoman from the congressional district next door to me.
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Undisguised Sockpuppet
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« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2007, 06:19:15 PM »

Gun Control is made of fail and AIDS.
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WalterMitty
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« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2007, 11:19:31 PM »

congrats to the congresswoman from the congressional district next door to me.

freedom fighter.

and america doesnt have 'gun control'.  but we do have plenty of children gunned down on a daily basis.
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opebo
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« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2007, 11:50:57 PM »

I agree with Frodo. If there is one way to really screw up your chances of picking up traditionally Republican states...messing with the second ammendment would be it.

What does the second amendment have to do with this?

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adam
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« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2007, 01:38:43 PM »

I agree with Frodo. If there is one way to really screw up your chances of picking up traditionally Republican states...messing with the second ammendment would be it.

What does the second amendment have to do with this?



I see no point in arguing this.  We know how it's going to go. I am going to say that the second ammendment ensures the right to bear arms and anything to infringe on that right would in fact be a violation of that ammendment. You are going to say that this doesn't infringe on the ammendment in anyway...and probably make the argument that the ammendment ensures that it ensures the right to a well organized militia.

There's no point in starting the same old argument over the same old issue.
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MaC
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« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2007, 02:43:09 PM »

Well, most American people now know better now that gun control is a horrible thing (moreso than ten years ago).  Provided you have enough Southern Democrats in the congress, it's not something to worry about.
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JSojourner
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« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2007, 04:50:12 PM »

The firearm issue is one where a massive injection of balance, moderation and sanity is needed.  The extremists seem to rule both sides of the debate.

On the right, you have folks who oppose sensible background checks, waiting periods, safety restrictions and restrictions on nearly any type of firearm...up to an including fully automatic machine guns.

On the left, there are people who believe no one should own a gun for any reason.  Not for hunting, collecting, plinking or personal security.  And believe it or not, some of these people include muzzle loaders and pre-1898 antiques in this category.  (I admit, I am biased because I collect and sell pre-1898 militaria.  But still -- who's going to shoot up a high school classroom with a M. 1861 Springfield musket?)

I don't trust either side in this debate and I have had it with both.  Is there any sensible middle ground lobby out there?
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The Dowager Mod
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« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2007, 05:00:07 PM »

Too bad the same people who are so outraged by this don't give a crap about the rest of the bill of rights.
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David S
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« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2007, 06:31:35 PM »

Too bad the same people who are so outraged by this don't give a crap about the rest of the bill of rights.

OK I'm a staunch supporter of the 2nd amendment, but I also support the rest of the bill of rights with equal fervor. If you think not then please show me one post where I have not supported the bill of rights.
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David S
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« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2007, 06:52:12 PM »

congrats to the congresswoman from the congressional district next door to me.

and america doesnt have 'gun control'. 

Walter you are very mistaken. There are thousands of gun control laws throughout the US. You may be under the impression that you can walk down to the local drug store and buy any kind of gun you want. But you cannot. Machine guns are basically illegal throughout the country. And before a gun dealer can sell you any kind of a gun he must submit your identification to the FBI's instant check system. If it turns out that you have a criminal record or are otherwise disqualified from owning a gun he will not be able to sell a gun of any type to you. That's federal law. In some states there are more restrictive state laws which apply instead. For example in Michigan, if you want to buy a pistol you must go to your local police department and apply for a purchase permit. The local police will fingerprint you and run a background check on you. If it turns out that you have a criminal record you will not be able to get a permit and you cannot legally buy a handgun. Trying to buy a gun if you are a criminal is also a crime so if you fail the background check you may get a visit from the ATF or the FBI.

The rules for getting a concealed carry permit vary from state to state, but generally you must go through a background check and pass a class on concealed carry which teaches you your legal responsibilities as well as important safety info. You will also usually be fingerprinted again.

Of course if you are a criminal you can forgo all those tedious technicalities by stealing a gun or buying one on the black market. You see those nasty criminals just don't play fair. They don't mind breaking the law at all. That's why they're called criminals.

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Democratic Hawk
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« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2007, 09:05:02 PM »

Don't see this getting very far. Pro-gun rights' House Democrats will kill it. Rep. McCarthy has a right to introduce such legislation. Her district is pretty much aware that she favors gun control. Indeed, she ran on it and was elected on it back in 1996. And in a district that had been Republican since 1953

I don't know where she stood on gun control prior to the tragedy which befell her family but its clearly an issue she cares passionately about. Understandable really, whether you agree with it or not. I, personally, would not support this legislation

Dave
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NewFederalist
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« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2007, 08:31:25 AM »

congrats to the congresswoman from the congressional district next door to me.

and america doesnt have 'gun control'. 

Walter you are very mistaken. There are thousands of gun control laws throughout the US. You may be under the impression that you can walk down to the local drug store and buy any kind of gun you want. But you cannot. Machine guns are basically illegal throughout the country. And before a gun dealer can sell you any kind of a gun he must submit your identification to the FBI's instant check system. If it turns out that you have a criminal record or are otherwise disqualified from owning a gun he will not be able to sell a gun of any type to you. That's federal law. In some states there are more restrictive state laws which apply instead. For example in Michigan, if you want to buy a pistol you must go to your local police department and apply for a purchase permit. The local police will fingerprint you and run a background check on you. If it turns out that you have a criminal record you will not be able to get a permit and you cannot legally buy a handgun. Trying to buy a gun if you are a criminal is also a crime so if you fail the background check you may get a visit from the ATF or the FBI.

The rules for getting a concealed carry permit vary from state to state, but generally you must go through a background check and pass a class on concealed carry which teaches you your legal responsibilities as well as important safety info. You will also usually be fingerprinted again.

Of course if you are a criminal you can forgo all those tedious technicalities by stealing a gun or buying one on the black market. You see those nasty criminals just don't play fair. They don't mind breaking the law at all. That's why they're called criminals.



Excellent post, David S! I think that says it all.
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MaC
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« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2007, 03:18:57 PM »

congrats to the congresswoman from the congressional district next door to me.

and america doesnt have 'gun control'. 

Walter you are very mistaken. There are thousands of gun control laws throughout the US. You may be under the impression that you can walk down to the local drug store and buy any kind of gun you want. But you cannot. Machine guns are basically illegal throughout the country. And before a gun dealer can sell you any kind of a gun he must submit your identification to the FBI's instant check system. If it turns out that you have a criminal record or are otherwise disqualified from owning a gun he will not be able to sell a gun of any type to you. That's federal law. In some states there are more restrictive state laws which apply instead. For example in Michigan, if you want to buy a pistol you must go to your local police department and apply for a purchase permit. The local police will fingerprint you and run a background check on you. If it turns out that you have a criminal record you will not be able to get a permit and you cannot legally buy a handgun. Trying to buy a gun if you are a criminal is also a crime so if you fail the background check you may get a visit from the ATF or the FBI.

The rules for getting a concealed carry permit vary from state to state, but generally you must go through a background check and pass a class on concealed carry which teaches you your legal responsibilities as well as important safety info. You will also usually be fingerprinted again.

Of course if you are a criminal you can forgo all those tedious technicalities by stealing a gun or buying one on the black market. You see those nasty criminals just don't play fair. They don't mind breaking the law at all. That's why they're called criminals.



Excellent post, David S! I think that says it all.

True, but Mitty argues emotively so it's hard to get through to him.
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NewFederalist
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« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2007, 04:29:08 PM »

So tell him to drink too much cheap rum and puke and go to the ER since he has no health insurance! Wink
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WalterMitty
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« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2007, 04:47:56 PM »

So tell him to drink too much cheap rum and puke and go to the ER since he has no health insurance! Wink

actually i do have health insurance now, thanks to the state of massachusetts.   

and no i dont think prohibiting felons from owning firearms is 'gun control'  that is just common sense.

how many of you libertarians have been prevented from purchasing a firearm?
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NewFederalist
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« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2007, 04:52:40 PM »

So tell him to drink too much cheap rum and puke and go to the ER since he has no health insurance! Wink

actually i do have health insurance now, thanks to the state of massachusetts.   

and no i dont think prohibiting felons from owning firearms is 'gun control'  that is just common sense.

how many of you libertarians have been prevented from purchasing a firearm?

A. Good for you
B. I agree... nor should they be allowed to vote
C. I can't speak for libertarians... sorry (me personally... never)
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Smash255
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« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2007, 04:58:11 PM »

congrats to the congresswoman from the congressional district next door to me.

and america doesnt have 'gun control'. 

Walter you are very mistaken. There are thousands of gun control laws throughout the US. You may be under the impression that you can walk down to the local drug store and buy any kind of gun you want. But you cannot. Machine guns are basically illegal throughout the country. And before a gun dealer can sell you any kind of a gun he must submit your identification to the FBI's instant check system. If it turns out that you have a criminal record or are otherwise disqualified from owning a gun he will not be able to sell a gun of any type to you. That's federal law. In some states there are more restrictive state laws which apply instead. For example in Michigan, if you want to buy a pistol you must go to your local police department and apply for a purchase permit. The local police will fingerprint you and run a background check on you. If it turns out that you have a criminal record you will not be able to get a permit and you cannot legally buy a handgun. Trying to buy a gun if you are a criminal is also a crime so if you fail the background check you may get a visit from the ATF or the FBI.

The rules for getting a concealed carry permit vary from state to state, but generally you must go through a background check and pass a class on concealed carry which teaches you your legal responsibilities as well as important safety info. You will also usually be fingerprinted again.

Of course if you are a criminal you can forgo all those tedious technicalities by stealing a gun or buying one on the black market. You see those nasty criminals just don't play fair. They don't mind breaking the law at all. That's why they're called criminals.




Biggest problem to that is most of the guns bought illegally on the black market were originally BOUGHT LEGALLY.  This is a major problem that needs to be addressed through increased protections, checks, registration, etc.   
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David S
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« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2007, 05:21:00 PM »
« Edited: January 30, 2007, 05:26:25 PM by David S »

So tell him to drink too much cheap rum and puke and go to the ER since he has no health insurance! Wink

actually i do have health insurance now, thanks to the state of massachusetts.   

and no i dont think prohibiting felons from owning firearms is 'gun control'  that is just common sense.

how many of you libertarians have been prevented from purchasing a firearm?

Is your idea of gun control to prevent honest law-abiding people from owning guns?

Now that I think about it I have been prevented from buying a gun. I'd like to have a short barrelled shotgun. It would make a great gun for home defense.  But they aren't legal in Michigan so I don't have one. Criminals can easily make them though just by sawing off the barrel of a legal one.
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David S
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« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2007, 05:30:36 PM »

congrats to the congresswoman from the congressional district next door to me.

and america doesnt have 'gun control'. 

Walter you are very mistaken. There are thousands of gun control laws throughout the US. You may be under the impression that you can walk down to the local drug store and buy any kind of gun you want. But you cannot. Machine guns are basically illegal throughout the country. And before a gun dealer can sell you any kind of a gun he must submit your identification to the FBI's instant check system. If it turns out that you have a criminal record or are otherwise disqualified from owning a gun he will not be able to sell a gun of any type to you. That's federal law. In some states there are more restrictive state laws which apply instead. For example in Michigan, if you want to buy a pistol you must go to your local police department and apply for a purchase permit. The local police will fingerprint you and run a background check on you. If it turns out that you have a criminal record you will not be able to get a permit and you cannot legally buy a handgun. Trying to buy a gun if you are a criminal is also a crime so if you fail the background check you may get a visit from the ATF or the FBI.

The rules for getting a concealed carry permit vary from state to state, but generally you must go through a background check and pass a class on concealed carry which teaches you your legal responsibilities as well as important safety info. You will also usually be fingerprinted again.

Of course if you are a criminal you can forgo all those tedious technicalities by stealing a gun or buying one on the black market. You see those nasty criminals just don't play fair. They don't mind breaking the law at all. That's why they're called criminals.




Biggest problem to that is most of the guns bought illegally on the black market were originally BOUGHT LEGALLY.  This is a major problem that needs to be addressed through increased protections, checks, registration, etc.   

Smash there are probably as many guns in America as people. And the folks who would use them illegally aren't going to register them. Even law-abiding folks would balk at registering guns. One day government says you must register your guns. Next  they say you must turn them in and by then they have a registration list so they know who has them.
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Smash255
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« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2007, 05:53:11 PM »

congrats to the congresswoman from the congressional district next door to me.

and america doesnt have 'gun control'. 

Walter you are very mistaken. There are thousands of gun control laws throughout the US. You may be under the impression that you can walk down to the local drug store and buy any kind of gun you want. But you cannot. Machine guns are basically illegal throughout the country. And before a gun dealer can sell you any kind of a gun he must submit your identification to the FBI's instant check system. If it turns out that you have a criminal record or are otherwise disqualified from owning a gun he will not be able to sell a gun of any type to you. That's federal law. In some states there are more restrictive state laws which apply instead. For example in Michigan, if you want to buy a pistol you must go to your local police department and apply for a purchase permit. The local police will fingerprint you and run a background check on you. If it turns out that you have a criminal record you will not be able to get a permit and you cannot legally buy a handgun. Trying to buy a gun if you are a criminal is also a crime so if you fail the background check you may get a visit from the ATF or the FBI.

The rules for getting a concealed carry permit vary from state to state, but generally you must go through a background check and pass a class on concealed carry which teaches you your legal responsibilities as well as important safety info. You will also usually be fingerprinted again.

Of course if you are a criminal you can forgo all those tedious technicalities by stealing a gun or buying one on the black market. You see those nasty criminals just don't play fair. They don't mind breaking the law at all. That's why they're called criminals.




Biggest problem to that is most of the guns bought illegally on the black market were originally BOUGHT LEGALLY.  This is a major problem that needs to be addressed through increased protections, checks, registration, etc.   

Smash there are probably as many guns in America as people. And the folks who would use them illegally aren't going to register them. Even law-abiding folks would balk at registering guns. One day government says you must register your guns. Next  they say you must turn them in and by then they have a registration list so they know who has them.

It wukk cut down on the numbers that will buy guns legally and then sell them illegally on the black market.  More than half of the guns used in crimes in the majority of American cities are from guns that were orginally purchased legally then sold on the black market.
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