Canada under a US style presidential system (1867-present)
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Author Topic: Canada under a US style presidential system (1867-present)  (Read 57133 times)
Hatman 🍁
EarlAW
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« Reply #150 on: September 25, 2010, 11:52:51 PM »

Newfoundland (13 delegates)

Liberals
MacEachen 56% (13 delegates)
Trudeau 14%
Lesage 12%
Hellyer 9%
Martin 5%
Turner 4%
Greene <1%

Totals
Hellyer: 71
MacEachen: 59
Trudeau: 8
Lesage: 7
Henderson (dropped out): 1


Conservatives
Roblin 58% (11 delegates)
Robarts 20% (1 delegate)
Wagner 17% (1 delegate)
Horner 6%

Totals
Roblin: 96
Horner: 46
Wagner: 8
Robarts: 6


Democrats
Lewis: 69% 12 delegates
Harney 17% 1 delegate
Laxer 8%
Broadbent 5%
Howard 1%

Totals
Lewis: 81
Howard: 38
Laxer: 27
Harney: 9

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Hatman 🍁
EarlAW
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« Reply #151 on: September 26, 2010, 12:59:22 AM »

Super Monday is here! Quebec and Ontario holds their primaries.

Firstly,

Quebec (98 delegates)

Liberals
Lesage: 36% (58 delegates)
Trudeau: 34% (39 delegates)
Martin 11% (1 delegate)
Turner: 9%
McEachen: 8%
Hellyer: 4%
Greene: 3%

Conservatives
Wagner 68% (88 delegates)
Roblin 17% (9 delegates)
Robarts 9% (1 delegate)
Horner 6%

Democrats
Harney 65% (77 delegates)
Lewis 16% (12 delegates)
Laxer 12% (10 delegates)
Broadbent 6%
Howard 1%

Ontario (112 delegates)

Liberals
The top three candidates were all candidates that had 0 delegates so far (except Martin, who had 1), but were hoping to clean up in Ontario. It was very close, with Turner winning less districts than Martin, but one more % in vote.

Turner 30% (52 delegates)
Martin 29% (29 delegates)
Greene 15% (24 delegates)
Hellyer 10% (3 delegates)
Lesage 7% (3 delegates)
Trudeau 6% (1 delegate)
MacEachen 3%

Conservatives
Robarts was waiting for Ontario for his big win

Robarts 64% (104 delegates)
Wagner 14% (6 delegates)
Roblin 15% (2 delegates)
Horner 7%

Democrats
Broadbent who had spent most of his time campaigning in Ontario, had it pay off for him somewhat.

Broadbent 33% (56 delegates)
Laxer 32% (38 delegates)
Lewis 29% (15 delegates)
Harney 6% (3 delegates)
Howard 1%

Ok, so going into their conventions...

Liberals
Hellyer: 74
Lesage: 68
MacEachen: 59
Turner: 52
Trudeau: 48
Martin: 30
Greene: 24
Henderson (dropped out): 1

No one really knew how the Liberal convention will go.

Conservatives
Robarts: 111
Roblin: 107
Wagner: 94
Horner: 46

Same with the Conservatives...

Lewis: 108
Harney: 89
Laxer: 75
Broadbent: 56
Howard: 38

Or the Democrats. Smiley

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Hatman 🍁
EarlAW
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« Reply #152 on: September 26, 2010, 02:17:09 PM »

And now for the national convention.

1971 Social Credit National Convention (Hull, Quebec)

Caouette had secured victory by being endorsed in all provinces except in Western Canada, which endorsed McGillivray. The party only held a primary in Quebec however, and Cossette came in second. Caouette, selected Cossette as his VP.

1971 Democratic Party National Convention (Ottawa, Ontario)

The Democrats held their convention 2 weeks later across the river in Ottawa.

The party was extremely divisive between the left wing waffle (represented by James Laxer) and the moderate establishment of the party (represented by Lewis and Harney). Congressman Broadbent, a former socialist, was running on a unity platform, which only attracted support in Ontario.

Going into the convention, Frank Howard was in last place, but did not endorse any candidates. He was very anti-Waffle however, and endorsed "Anybody but Laxer".

First round

Lewis: 125
Harney: 101
Laxer: 84
Broadbent: 56

Broadbent didn't get any of Howard's delegates, and 7 delegates even went to Laxer. Laxer's only hope now was to get some delegates from Broadbent.

Second round

Lewis 132
Harney 125
Laxer 109

Surprisingly, much of Broadbent's support went to Harney, and not Lewis, but the plurality went to Laxer.

Laxer's delegates now had the balance of power. They did not like David Lewis, who wanted nothing to do with the waffle. They were lukewarm to Harney, so many selected him. The fact that he had Quebec roots helped, as the Waffle was very much in favour of Quebec self-determination (to the chagrin of the rest of the party).

Third round
Harney 208
Lewis 158

John Paul Harney wins with the help of the Waffle, but pleases the party by selecting Lewis as his VP (running for the second election in a row as VP, now). The Waffle is furious, and many leave the party. Laxer runs as an independent in the upcoming House elections.



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Hatman 🍁
EarlAW
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« Reply #153 on: September 26, 2010, 02:38:47 PM »

Conservative Party National Convention (Kingston, Ontario)

The Conservatives were in the home of the first President, Macdonald for their convention.

Horner, on the right wing of the party endorsed Wagner going into the convention, someone who he saw as despite being Francophone, shared the same law and order attitudes as he did.


First round

Roblin 122
Wagner 119
Robarts 117

Not all of Horner's delegates went to Wagner, as many didn't want a Frenchman as the Presidential nominee. It was now a close three way race, and Robarts had to drop off. Robarts, a moderate endorsed a fellow Governor in Roblin.

Roblin 189
Wagner 178

In a close race, Roblin defeats Wagner. Roblin selects Robarts as his VP, seeing Ontario as more important than Quebec for the upcoming election, and also wanting to keep the party moderate (counting on right wing support to keep with them, as Social Credit was seen as dead now) 
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Hatman 🍁
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« Reply #154 on: September 26, 2010, 03:32:28 PM »

Liberal Party National Convention (Sudbury, Ontario)

We already saw one upset with the Democrats, what will happen with the Liberals? The race was very open, with the leading candidate not even being able to secure 75 delegates prior to the convention

Greene being the lowest candidate had to drop out before the convention. He endorsed Lesage, but many of his delegates went to Trudeau.

First round
Lesage: 82
Hellyer: 75
MacEachen: 59
Trudeau: 58
Turner: 52
Martin: 30

Now it was looking more like a 2 person race, as Lesage would take the lead going into round 2. Martin quit politics after being dropped off, and gave a rousing speech, but endorsed no one. Hellyer got just over half of his delegates.

Round 2
Lesage: 92
Hellyer: 88
Trudeau: 65
MacEachen: 59
Turner: 52

Turner drops off, and a plurality of his delegates go to Hellyer, putting him back on top.

Round 3
Hellyer: 110
Lesage: 108
Trudeau: 77
MacEachen: 59

None of MacEachen's support went to Hellyer, destroying his chances. It was now evident that Lesage would win.

Round 4
Lesage: 142
Hellyer: 110
Trudeau: 102

Round 5
Lesage: 205
Hellyer: 162

Lesage would win, and selects Allan MacEachen as his VP candidate, alienating Hellyer who would later join the Tories.
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Hatman 🍁
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« Reply #155 on: September 26, 2010, 05:33:56 PM »

Because Hash wants more maps,

Here is the 1965 Senate elections map. These seats will be up for re-election in 1971. As you can see, the provinces are divided up into districts which represent one Senate seat. One district is represented by 3 Senators, which are elected every six years. In NS, PEI and NB they elect an additional Senator every six years and therefore there are different boundaries for those years.

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Hatman 🍁
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« Reply #156 on: September 26, 2010, 06:12:56 PM »

"Lesagemania" Strikes Canada, and Canada elects Vice President Lesage as President. The economy had been on a down turn, but Canadians saw Lesage as someone who could make things better, and solve problems in Quebec. Much of the campaign was in Ontario. Many thought had the Tories selected Robarts, they could've won the election, but with him as the VP, Ontarians didn't care and voted for Lesage.

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Hatman 🍁
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« Reply #157 on: September 26, 2010, 07:19:30 PM »



^ 1971 Senate results

The Democrats did very well, picking up 4 seats. The Liberals had a net gain of one seat, thanks to vote splitting between the dying Union Nationale and the new Parti Quebecois. The Tories had a net gain of 2, while the dying Social Credit was reduced to just one seat.
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Vazdul (Formerly Chairman of the Communist Party of Ontario)
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« Reply #158 on: September 27, 2010, 11:32:21 AM »

Very interesting. Keep it coming.
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Hatman 🍁
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« Reply #159 on: October 06, 2010, 01:57:06 PM »

House results

Liberals: 132
Conservatives: 75
Democrats: 27
Social Credit: 15

Gubernatorial races

Ontario
Bill Davis (C) 45%
Robert Nixon (L) 28%
Stephen Lewis (D) 27%

Quebec
Robert Bourassa (L) 45%
Rene Levesque (PQ) 23%
Jean-Jacques Bertrand (UN) 20%
Camil Samson (SC) 11%

Nova Scotia
George Isaac Smith (C) 47%
Gerald Regan (L) 46%
Jeremy Akerman (D) 7%

New Brunswick
Louis Robichaud (L) 49%
Richard Hatfield (C) 48%
J. Albert Richardson (D) 3%

British Columbia
Dave Barrett (D) 40%
W.A.C. Bennett (SC) 31%
David Anderson (L) 16%
Derril Thomas Warren (C) 13%
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Hatman 🍁
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« Reply #160 on: October 06, 2010, 10:51:35 PM »

List of Quebec Governors:
Pierre-Joseph-Olivier-Chauveau, C (1867-1875)
Charles-Eugene Boucher de Boucherville, C (1875-1879)
Joseph-Adolphe Chapleau, C (1879-1887)
Honore Mercier, L (1887-1894)
Felix-Gabriel Marchand, L (1894-1895)
Edmund James Flynn, C (1895-1899)
Simon-Napoleon Parent, L (1899-1907)
Lomer Gouin, L (1907-1923)
Louis-Alexandre Taschereau, L (1923-1935)
Adélard Godbout, L (1935-1947)
Maurice Duplessis, UN (1947-1959)
Paul Sauvé, UN (1959, interim)
Jean Lesage, L (1959-1963)
Paul Gérin-Lajoie, L (1963-1971)
Robert Bourassa, L (1971-


List of Ontario Governors:
John Sandfield Macdonald, Cons (1867-1871)
Archibald McKellar, L (1871-1875)
Oliver Mowat, L (1875-1899)
George William Ross, L (1899-1907)
James Whitney, Cons (1907-1914)
William Howard Hearst, Cons (1914-1923)
Howard Ferguson, C (1923-1931)
Mitchell Hepburn, L (1931-1943)
Ted Jolliffe, Comm'th (1943-1951)
Leslie Frost, C (1951-1963)
John Robarts, C (1963-1971)
Bill Davis, C (1971-

List of Nova Scotia Governors:
William Anand, L (1867-1875)
Phillip Carteret Hill, L (1875-1879)
Simon Hugh Colmes, C (1879-1883)
William Thomas Pipes, L (1883-1891)
William Stevens Fielding, L (1891-1895)
George Henry Murray, L (1895-1923)
Edgar Nelson Rhodes, C (1923-1931)
Angus Lewis Macdonald, L (1931-1939)
Alexander Stirling MacMillan, L (1939-1943)
Angus Lewis Macdonald, L (1943-1951)
Robert Stanfield, C (1951-1967)
George Isaac Smith, C (1967-


List of BC Governors
John Foster McCreight, NP (1871-1875)
George Anthony Walkem, NP (1875-1883)
Robert Beaven, NP (1883-1887)
Alexander Edmund Batson Davie, NP (1887-1889)
John Robson, NP (1889-1892)
Theodore Davie, NP (1892-1895)
John Herbert Turner, NP (1895-1899)
Charles Augustus Semlin, NP (1899-1903)
Richard McBride, Cons (1903-1915)
Harlan Carey Brewster, L (1915-1918)
John Oliver, L (1918-1927)
John Duncan MacLean, L (1927)
Simon Fraser Tolmie, Cons (1927-1931)
Thomas Dufferin Pattullo, L (1931-1943)
Harold Winch, Comm'th (1943-1955)
W.A.C. Bennett, SC (1955-1971)
Dave Barrett, D (1971-

List of New Brunswick Governors:
Andrew Rainsford Wetmore, C (1867-1870)
George Edwin King, C (1870-1871)
George Luther Hathaway, C (1871-1872)
John James Fraser, C (1872-1883)
Andrew George Blair, L (1883-1895)
James Mitchell, L (1895-1897)
Henry Emmerson, L (1897-1899)
Lemuel John Tweedie, L (1899-1907)
John Douglas Hazen, C (1907-1911)
James Kidd Flemming, C (1911-1914)
George Clarke, C (1914-1915)
Walter Edward Foster, L (1915-1923)
John B.M. Baxter, C (1923-1931)
Charles Dow Richards, C (1931-1935)
Allison Dysart, L (1935-1943)
John B. McNair, L (1943-1955)
Hugh John Flemming, C (1955-1959)
Louis Robichaud, L (1959-

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Hatman 🍁
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« Reply #161 on: October 07, 2010, 12:34:22 PM »

1972: The most notable accomplishment by the new Lesage administration was the adoption official bilingualism in the Canadian government. It was not seen as particularly popular, however. This hurt the Liberals in the 1973 mid terms:

House results
Liberals: 109
Conservatives: 107
Democrats: 31
Social Credit: 15

Governor races

Alberta
Peter Lougheed (C) 45%
Harry E. Strom (SC) 40%
Grant Notley (D) 11%
Bob Russell (L) 3%

Saskatchewan
Allan Blakeney (D) 53%
Ross Thatcher (L) 41%
Ed Nasserden (C) 6%

PEI
Alexander Campbell (L) 54%
Melvin McQuaid (C) 40%
Aquinas Ryan (D) 6%

Newfoundland
Frank Moores (C) 60%
Edward Roberts (L) 37%
John Connors (D) 2%

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Hash
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« Reply #162 on: October 07, 2010, 12:38:39 PM »

Camil Samson lol Smiley
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Hatman 🍁
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« Reply #163 on: October 07, 2010, 02:12:57 PM »

1973 Senate races.


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Hatman 🍁
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« Reply #164 on: October 19, 2010, 08:38:49 PM »

I'm going to be making county maps at some point, so I'm going to keep some county lists.

Note that since this models the American government, there are counties in every province, and less changes to them as in real life, as they will have more autonomy.

Ontario counties and seats (in 1973)

Algoma - Sault Ste. Marie
Brant - Brantford
Bruce - Hanover
Cochrane - Cochrane
Dufferin - Orangeville
Elgin - St. Thomas
Essex - Windsor
Frontenac - Kingston
Grey - Owen Sound
Haldimand - Cayuga
Haliburton - Minden
Halton - Milton
Hamilton-Wentworth - Hamilton
Hastings - Belleville
Huron - Goderich
Kenora - Kenora
Kent - Chatham
Lambton - Sarnia
Lanark - Perth
Leeds & Grenville - Brockville
Lennox & Addington - Napanee
Lincoln - St. Catharines
Manitoulin - Gore Bay
Middlesex - London
Muskoka - Bracebridge
Nickel Belt - Espanola
Nipissing - North Bay
Norfolk - Simcoe
Northumberland & Durham - Cobourg
Ottawa-Carleton - Ottawa
Oxford - Woodstock
Parry Sound - Parry Sound
Patricia - Red Lake
Peel - Brampton
Perth - Stratford
Peterborough - Peterborough
Prescott & Russell - Hawkesbury
Prince Edward - Picton
Rainy River - Fort Frances
Renfrew - Pembroke
Simcoe - Barrie
Stormont, Dundas & Glengarry - Cornwall 
Sudbury - Sudbury
Thunder Bay - Thunder Bay
Timiskaming - Haileybury
Toronto - Toronto
Victoria - Lindsay
Waterloo - Kitchener
Welland - Welland
Wellington - Guelph
York - Newmarket

I didn't like the "& counties", but they were created prior to confederation, so I stuck with them.
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Hatman 🍁
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« Reply #165 on: October 19, 2010, 09:45:30 PM »
« Edited: October 21, 2010, 09:36:20 AM by Hatman »

Quebec's counties

Abitibi - Amos
Argenteuil - Lachute
Arthabaska - Arthabaska
Bagot - Saint-Liboire
Beauce - Beauceville
Beauharnois - Beauharnois
Bellechasse - Saint-Raphael
Berthier - Berthierville
Bonaventure - New Carlisle
Brome - Knowlton
Chambly - Longueuil
Champlain - Sainte-Genevieve
Charlevoix Est - La Malbaie
Charlevoix Ouest - Baie-Saint-Paul
Chateauguay - Sainte-Martine
Chicoutimi - Chicoutimi
Compton - Cookshire
Deux-Montagnes - Sainte-Scholastique
Dorchester - Sainte-Henedine
Drummond - Drummondville
Frontenac - Lac-Megantic
Gaspe Est - Perce
Gaspe Ouest - Sainte-Anne-des-Monts
Gatineau - Maniwaki
Hull - Hull
Huntgindon - Huntingdon
Iberville - Iberville
Jacques-Cartier - Montreal
Joliette - Joliette
Kamouraska - Saint-Pascal
Labelle - Mont-Laurier
Laprairie - Laprairie
L'Assomption - L'Assomption
Laval - Laval
Levis - Saint-Romuald
L'Islet - Saint-Jean-Port-Joli
Lotbiniere - Sainte-Croix
Lac-Saint-Jean Est - Alma
Lac-Saint-Jean Ouest - Roberval
Magdalen Islands - Havre Aubert
Maskinonge - Louiseville
Matagami - Chibougamau
Matane - Matane
Matapedia - Amqui
Megantic - Inverness
Missisquoi - Bedford
Mistassini - Mistissini
Montcalm - Sainte-Julienne
Montmorency No. 1 - Chateau-Richer
Montmorency No. 2 - Sainte-Famille
Montmagny - Montmagny
Napierville - Napierville
Nouveau-Quebec - Kuujjuaq
Portneuf - Cap-Sante
Quebec - Loretteville
Richelieu - Soerl
Richmond - Richmond
Rimouski - Rimouski
Rivere-du-Loup - Riviere-du-Loup
Rouville - Marieville
Saint-Hyacinthe - Saint-Hyacinthe
Saint-Jean - Saint-Jean
Saint-Maurice - Yamachiche
Saguenay - Tadoussac
Shefford - Waterloo
Sherbrooke - Sherbrooke
Soulanges - Coteau-Landing
Standstead - Ayer's Cliff
Temiscouata - Notre-Dame-du-Lac
Temiscamingue - Ville-Marie
Terrebonne - Saint-Jerome
Vaudreuil - Vaudreuil
Vercheres - Vercheres
Wolfe - Saint-Joseph-de-Ham-Sud
Yamaska - Saint-Francois-du-Lac

Basically Quebec's former counties, and three territories.
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Hatman 🍁
EarlAW
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« Reply #166 on: November 06, 2010, 10:03:39 AM »

More on the counties, later.

Meanwhile on our timeline...

With the poor House results for the Liberals in 1973, the Liberals were forced to work with the re-emerging Democrats to create some effective legislation. One of the notable accomplishments of the 1973-1975 congress was the establishment of Petro Canada.

With the Democrats and Tories doing well in the 1973 midterms, both looked to take over Rideau Hall (this is where the President lives in this TL) in 1975.

1975 Presidential Primaries

Let's start with the Conservative candidates


*Congressman Claude Wagner of Quebec


*Businessman Brian Mulroney of Quebec


*Congressman Joe Clark of Alberta


*Congressman Jack Horner of Alberta


*Senator Paul Hellyer of Ontario (now a Tory)


*Congressman Flora MacDonald of Ontario (first woman to seriously run for President)


*Congressman Sinclair Stevens of Ontario


*Congressman John Fraser of British Columbia


*Congressman James Gillies of Ontario


*Congressman Pat Nowlan of Nova Scotia


*Congressman Heward Grafftey of Quebec


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Hatman 🍁
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« Reply #167 on: November 06, 2010, 01:33:52 PM »

For the Democrats...



Congressman Ed Broadbent of Ontario


Provincial Assemblywoman Rosemary Brown of British Columbia (along with Macdonald, the first woman to seriously run for President, as well as the first visible minority)


Congressman Lorne Nystrom of Saskatchewan


Congressman John Harney of Ontario


Activist Douglas Campbell of Ontario

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Vazdul (Formerly Chairman of the Communist Party of Ontario)
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« Reply #168 on: November 07, 2010, 12:37:00 AM »

Yay! It's back! Keep it coming!
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Hatman 🍁
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« Reply #169 on: April 03, 2011, 09:06:15 PM »

Presidential primaries for 1975

"Atlantic Primary"

Nova Scotia
Democrats

Brown is able to win, by signing up many Afro-Nova Scotians to the party.

Brown: 45% (8 delegates)
Broadbent: 31% (5 delegates)
Nystrom: 13%
Harney: 10%
Campbell: 1%

Conservatives
Nowlan wins as a favourite son.

Nowlan: 46% (12 delegates)
Wagner: 21% (1 delegate)
Mulroney: 17%
Clark: 7%
Macdonald: 4%
Others: 5%



New Brunswick
Democrats
Harney: 40% (8 delegates)
Broadbent: 34% (4 delegates)
Brown: 14%
Nystrom: 12%

Conservatives
Wagner: 33% (10 delegates)
Mulroney: 25% (1 delegate)
Nowlan: 18% (1 delegate)
Clark: 17%
Others: 7%



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Hatman 🍁
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« Reply #170 on: April 08, 2011, 10:58:51 PM »

The following Monday would be Manitoba's primary

Democrats
Coming out of neighbouring Saskatchewan, Nystrom does well in Manitoba. He needed some results there to keep in the race.

Nystrom: 44% (11 delegates)
Broadbent: 25% (4 delegates)
Brown: 14% (3 delegates)
Harney: 13% (1 delegate)
Campbell: 4%

Campbell drops out


Conservatives
Clark: 42% (12 delegates)
Mulroney: 33% (6 delegates)
Wagner: 15% (1 delegate)
Horner: 5%
Others: 5%

Horner wanted a good showing in Manitoba to carry on, but drops out of the race.  Fraser, Nowlan, Grafftey and Gillies all drop out.
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Hatman 🍁
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« Reply #171 on: April 09, 2011, 09:49:26 AM »

Next is B.C., worth 29 delegates.

Democrats

Rosemary Brown needed a big result in her home province and got it, as she was able to secure all 29 delegates.

Brown: 63% (29 delegates)
Nystrom: 16% 
Broadbent: 15%
Harney: 6%

Conservatives
With the dropping of Fraser from the race, B.C. was up for grabs

Clark: 51% (23 delegates)
Mulroney: 29% (6 delegates)
Wagner: 17%
Hellyer: 1%
MacDonald: 1%
Stevens: 1%

The three Ontario candidates stay on board to see how they will do on super Monday.

Delegate standings

Brown: 40
Broadbent: 13
Nystrom: 11
Harney: 9


Clark: 35
Mulroney: 13
Wagner: 12
Nowlan: 13 (dropped out)


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Hatman 🍁
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« Reply #172 on: April 17, 2011, 01:47:47 PM »

Prince Edward Island is next, worth 8 delegates

Democrats
Broadbent: 48%  (7 delegates)
Harney: 37% - (1 delegate)
Nystrom: 8%
Brown: 7%


Conservatives
Wagner: 34% - (6 delegates)
Mulroney: 23% - (2 delegates)
Clark: 19%
MacDonald: 16%
Hellyer: 6%
Stevens: 3%

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Hatman 🍁
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« Reply #173 on: April 17, 2011, 02:39:22 PM »

Territories, Alberta & Saskatchewan

The following week was the territorial primaries. Note, for the 1975 Presidential election, both territories will electing Senators for the first time in a while.
On the Democratic side, Brown picked up all four delegates. On the Conservative side, they were picked up by Clark.
 
Prairie Primaries
Democrats:
Alberta
Brown: 36% (16 delegates)
Nystrom: 31% (9 delegates)
Broadbent: 21%
Harney: 12%

Saskatchewan:
Nystrom: 62% (19 delegates)
Broadbent: 21%
Harney: 13%
Brown: 4%

Conservatives:
It was a huge couple of weeks, as Joe Clark picks up all available delegates.

Alberta
Clark: 70% (25 delegates)
Wagner: 18%
Mulroney: 9%
MacDonald: 1%
Stevens: 1%
Hellyer:1 %

Saskatchewan
Clark: 58% (19 delegates)
Wagner: 24%
Mulroney: 15%
MacDonald:  1%
Stevens: 1%
Hellyer: 1%

Delegate count:
Brown: 60
Nystrom: 39
Broadbent: 20
Harney: 10


Clark: 83
Mulroney: 15
Wagner: 18
Nowlan: 13 (dropped out)
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Elyski
elyski729
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« Reply #174 on: April 18, 2011, 04:46:27 PM »

So I guess Clark won the Conservative primary?
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