Prodi hands in resignation

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Italian Prime Minister Romano Prodi has handed his resignation to the country's president after losing a crucial foreign policy vote in the Senate

...The BBC's Jonny Dymond in Rome says it is not a foregone conclusion that the government will fall...

[Joe Republic]

Ah, Italy and it's revolving door governments.

[Bono]

Alright!

[Silent Hunter]

Actually Berlusconi's government lasted the full 5 years.

[Joe Republic]

Actually Berlusconi's government lasted the full 5 years.

True, but the average term of an Italian Prime Minister since 1946 is currently 1 year and 7 months.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Actually Berlusconi's government lasted the full 5 years.

True, but the average term of an Italian Prime Minister since 1946 is currently 1 year and 7 months.

If you delete Craxi and Berlusconi what does it fall to?

[Joe Republic]

Actually Berlusconi's government lasted the full 5 years.

True, but the average term of an Italian Prime Minister since 1946 is currently 1 year and 7 months.

If you delete Craxi and Berlusconi what does it fall to?

If we leave in Berlusconi's first term (eight months), the average drops to just under 1 year and 6 months.  Not much of a difference, but that's because there are still so many different terms remaining.

In the same span of time, the UK has changed Prime Ministers just twelve times, compared to Italy's thirty-seven.

[Cubby]

I am stunned by this! This better not mean that corrupt oligarch Berlusconi will be back in power soon. Prodi barely won last April's election, but hopefully support for the left is still strong. My favorite Italian party is Rose in the Fist which is part of Prodi's coalition and is both libertarian and socialist.

Why do European Prime Ministers resign over the tiniest issues? Why do they need majority confidence on every minor detail that comes before them? I can't stand the uncertain-ness of it all. One day everything is fine and the next, the entire government has fallen!

[DownWithTheLeft]

I can hear the chants for Berlusconi now, he is the greatest politician in the world

[Keystone Phil]

   

I loved seeing this when it first broke! Let's hope for new elections and the return of BERLUSCONI!

[Colin]

It will most likely be another person from within the L'Unione, IIRC, Coalition most likely from the Democrats of the Left. I have no idea who it would be but I doubt there will be any changing of the government back towards House of Freedoms since I can't see any L'Unione members teaming up with Berlusconi.

[Keystone Phil]

It will most likely be another person from within the L'Unione, IIRC, Coalition most likely from the Democrats of the Left. I have no idea who it would be but I doubt there will be any changing of the government back towards House of Freedoms since I can't see any L'Unione members teaming up with Berlusconi.

That's what I thought but I have seen a good deal of commentary throughout the day saying that elections are likely.

[minionofmidas]

I can hear the chants for Berlusconi now, he is the greatest politician in the world

That's because 100% of such chants are occuring in the U.S.

[Middle-aged Europe]

What is it with this Berlusconi admiration among American conservatives anyway? I mean, the guy is an asshole, plain and simple.

I probably could understand the same kind admiration towards Bertie Ahern or maybe even Anders Fogh Rasmussen. But Berlusconi???

Is it because he send troops to Iraq against domestic opposition? Great, the same thing happened in the UK, Denmark, the Netherlands, among several other countries. And don't forget that Berlusconi was also guy who announced the withdrawal of the same troops from Iraq (probably to secure his own re-election... something that Blair didn't do, for example).

Or is it because he is supposed to be one of the "few true conservatives in Europe"? Well, first I would like to know who came up with the myth that Berlusconi is a "true conservative" in the first place. Maybe Bertie Ahern or Anders Rasmussen are "true conservatives". But Berlusconi is interested in only two things: money and power. As it happens it suits him to pursue quasi- or semi-conservative policies to reach these goals... at least most of the time. But that's all. Personally, he gives a sh** about the issues.

So, what is it with this Berlusconi cult?

[minionofmidas]

In the pre-mani pulite scheme of things, Berlusconi was a Socialist.

Which of course says more about how right-wing that party was, really, than about Berlusconi. It basically represented secular machine centre-right-ness, with its strongholds in the Northwest. (While the DC represented Catholic machine centre-right-ness, dominating a big tent from pretty leftwing to firmly austrofascist, with its strongholds in the South and Northeast.)

Anyways, this is Italy. There won't be new elections until at least three other centre-left pms/cabinets have been tried and have not worked. And that's assuming Prodi has really resigned rather than "resigned", which in itself is a considerable leap of faith.
The best you rightwingers can hope for is that some group moves from the opposition benches to the government benches. The best you Berlusconi fans can hope for is ... er ... there's nothing you can hope for, actually.

[Silent Hunter]

Oh, and let's not forget his dodgy appointment to the European Commission. And some of his gaffes.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

While the DC represented Catholic machine centre-right-ness, dominating a big tent from pretty leftwing to firmly austrofascist, with its strongholds in the South and Northeast.)

Prodi was in the DC IIRC.

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Best summary of the current mess I've read

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The BBC mentioned the possibility of some ex-DC types doing that.

[minionofmidas]

While the DC represented Catholic machine centre-right-ness, dominating a big tent from pretty leftwing to firmly austrofascist, with its strongholds in the South and Northeast.)

Prodi was in the DC IIRC.

Yep.

Oh, ere I forget, the PSI also had a left wing. Giuliano Amato is perhaps the former PSI politician (Berlusconi wasn't a career politician back then) to still be important, and he's in DS now.

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The BBC mentioned the possibility of some ex-DC types doing that.
[/quote]Yep. I wouldn't be surprised to find that this whole 'resignation' is just a way of selling an UDC entry (or the entry of an UDC-splinter-off) to the coalition's far left.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Oh, ere I forget, the PSI also had a left wing. Giuliano Amato is perhaps the former PSI politician (Berlusconi wasn't a career politician back then) to still be important, and he's in DS now.

Did the PSI swing to the right during the time in which the PCI was propping up the DC in the '70's or before then? (I should know, but can't remember...)

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[Keystone Phil]

What is it with this Berlusconi admiration among American conservatives anyway? I mean, the guy is an asshole, plain and simple.

I probably could understand the same kind admiration towards Bertie Ahern or maybe even Anders Fogh Rasmussen. But Berlusconi???

Is it because he send troops to Iraq against domestic opposition? Great, the same thing happened in the UK, Denmark, the Netherlands, among several other countries. And don't forget that Berlusconi was also guy who announced the withdrawal of the same troops from Iraq (probably to secure his own re-election... something that Blair didn't do, for example).

Or is it because he is supposed to be one of the "few true conservatives in Europe"? Well, first I would like to know who came up with the myth that Berlusconi is a "true conservative" in the first place. Maybe Bertie Ahern or Anders Rasmussen are "true conservatives". But Berlusconi is interested in only two things: money and power. As it happens it suits him to pursue quasi- or semi-conservative policies to reach these goals... at least most of the time. But that's all. Personally, he gives a sh** about the issues.

So, what is it with this Berlusconi cult?

I know that Berlusconi isn't some saint but I find him to be a very, very interesting character. I do applaud his stance with the U.S. on most occassions and I would like to see his party in power. That would explain the "Berlusconi cult" following from my end. 

[Bono]

Oh, and let's not forget his dodgy appointment to the European Commission. And some of his gaffes.

What dodgy appointment? The only thing that was dodgy about that was the intolerance of the leftwingers in the european parliament.

[Cubby]

What is it with this Berlusconi admiration among American conservatives anyway? I mean, the guy is an asshole, plain and simple.

I probably could understand the same kind admiration towards Bertie Ahern or maybe even Anders Fogh Rasmussen. But Berlusconi???

Is it because he send troops to Iraq against domestic opposition? Great, the same thing happened in the UK, Denmark, the Netherlands, among several other countries. And don't forget that Berlusconi was also guy who announced the withdrawal of the same troops from Iraq (probably to secure his own re-election... something that Blair didn't do, for example).

Or is it because he is supposed to be one of the "few true conservatives in Europe"? Well, first I would like to know who came up with the myth that Berlusconi is a "true conservative" in the first place. Maybe Bertie Ahern or Anders Rasmussen are "true conservatives". But Berlusconi is interested in only two things: money and power. As it happens it suits him to pursue quasi- or semi-conservative policies to reach these goals... at least most of the time. But that's all. Personally, he gives a sh** about the issues.

So, what is it with this Berlusconi cult?

American conservatives are just desperate to see someone resembling them in Europe other than Jorg Haider and Jean-Marie Le Pen (I will qualify this by saying American cons. are not anti-immigrant). Maybe Phil is Italian, who knows?

I don't like Berlusconi b/c I don't think billionaires have any business being in power in democracies. The fact that he is Italy's richest man and he owns most of the media outlets (I think) makes him a poor choice to lead Italy. It has nothing to do with his political views. This is the same reason I oppose efforts to draft Michael Bloomberg (Mayor of NYC) to run for President as an Independent Candidate. There is something fundamentally wrong with the super-rich running a country.

[Keystone Phil]

Maybe Phil is Italian, who knows?

That's my heritage. That is why I have an interest in Italian politics.

[SPQR]

I can hear the chants for Berlusconi now, he is the greatest politician in the world

Now I have one more reason to make fun of you.Absolutely RIDICOLOUS.
Anyway,I have read SO MUCH BULLsh**t,is just amazing.First of all,Berlusconi didn't last the whole 5 years,he resigned as well after being raped in 2005's regional elections.He then got to rule for another year with a couple of changes in terms of ministers. That's probably what's gonna happen now. Prodi is still gonna be the Prime Minister,and the only changes should be that those 2 communist idiots that yesterday voted against the gov't are going to resign, and maybe we'll get a couple of dissidents from the center-right in the Senate.That's it.
Oh,of course Berlusconi is now leading in the polls...how the hell could he not be leading the day Prodi resigns?

[Colin]

What is it with this Berlusconi admiration among American conservatives anyway? I mean, the guy is an asshole, plain and simple.

I probably could understand the same kind admiration towards Bertie Ahern or maybe even Anders Fogh Rasmussen. But Berlusconi???

Is it because he send troops to Iraq against domestic opposition? Great, the same thing happened in the UK, Denmark, the Netherlands, among several other countries. And don't forget that Berlusconi was also guy who announced the withdrawal of the same troops from Iraq (probably to secure his own re-election... something that Blair didn't do, for example).

Or is it because he is supposed to be one of the "few true conservatives in Europe"? Well, first I would like to know who came up with the myth that Berlusconi is a "true conservative" in the first place. Maybe Bertie Ahern or Anders Rasmussen are "true conservatives". But Berlusconi is interested in only two things: money and power. As it happens it suits him to pursue quasi- or semi-conservative policies to reach these goals... at least most of the time. But that's all. Personally, he gives a sh** about the issues.

So, what is it with this Berlusconi cult?

American conservatives are just desperate to see someone resembling them in Europe other than Jorg Haider and Jean-Marie Le Pen (I will qualify this by saying American cons. are not anti-immigrant).

Oh please if you actually saw the platforms of Le Front National and the Freedom Party or the BZO for Haider you'd see they've very little in common with US conservatives, except for some of the social conservative nationalist types. Beyond the whole hatred of immigrants thing you have to remember that they have a whole platform full of fruitcake ideas and nutty measures that make the Republican Party look sane, rational, and moderate.

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Oh, ya think?

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The Kerry family has close to a billion dollars and Pelosi is probably in the area of hundreds of millions. Not seeing you swear them off. Money isn't the problem its the way he uses his money to basically bribe his opponents and destractors and uses it to exert power and influence beyond his stated role that's the problem.

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If he was an honest man and we weren't talking about Italian politics, which are about as open and honest as New York City during the Tweed era, than I don't think there'd be a problem.

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The super-rich already run countries. They are the only people who find the time to experiment in the hobby called politics and government. Unless you want to elect your leaders by lot, tried that in Athens didn't work well post-Pericles, you're always going to have those with the most resources running against those who also have alot of resources.

Berlusconi should not be on anyones top 10 list as a leader, I really just can't see why. It's like idolizing Harding. Overall, though, Italian politics are horrid you either vote for a coalition with the communists on the left or a coalition with pseudo-fascist Gianfranco Fini and the many unreformed fascist members of the National Alliance on the right.