Homeschooled girl in Germany taken from family

[David S]

POLICE STATE, GERMANY
Homeschool family told
to give up 5 other kids
Officials suggest breakup would solve
dispute over daughter's home education

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: February 25, 2007
1:00 a.m. Eastern
By Bob Unruh
© 2007 WorldNetDaily.com

Melissa Busekros

German authorities who sent 15 uniformed police officers to take custody of a 15-year-old girl who committed the crime of being homeschooled now have suggested a solution that, in their minds, would "resolve" the situation: the parents should give up custody of their other five children.

The situation involving Melissa Busekros has been in the headlines ever since the beginning of this month, when the officers arrived at her parents' home with a court order allowing them to take her into custody, "if necessary by force."

She had fallen behind in math and Latin, and was being tutored at home. When school officials in Germany, where homeschooling has been illegal since Adolph Hitler decided he wanted to control the educating of all children, discovered that fact, she was expelled. School officials then took her to court, obtaining a court order requiring she be committed to a psychiatric ward because of her "school phobia."

Full story at http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=54425

[Ebowed]

If WorldNetDaily is so upset about illegal immigrants breaking the law when it comes to the US, why don't they hold the same standard in this case?

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

Fascism

[Bono]

If WorldNetDaily is so upset about illegal immigrants breaking the law when it comes to the US, why don't they hold the same standard in this case?

Because in this case they disagree with the law. Duh.

[Padfoot]

All children deserve the right to a basic education but the government should not be able to decide who gives it to them.  I don't mean to sounds paranoid but when government education is the only option there is too much opportunity to (for lack of a better term) brainwash children.

One thing that I'm not clear on here is the way in which the word tutoring is being used.  From my understanding after reading about the incident in several different sources, the girl was struggling in certain subjects so her parents began to "tutor" her in those areas.  When the school discovered that she was being "tutored" by her parents the girl was expelled.  Upon being expelled, her parents began homeschooling her.


To me, this seems to be a severe overreaction on the part of the government and an intolerable attempt to prevent parents from having any involvement in the education of their children.  Much of this hinges on what exactly the school district sees as unacceptable tutoring on the part of the parents.  By my definition, parental tutoring could range anywhere from helping your child with a difficult homework assignment to buying your child workbooks or computer programs so that they can do extra activities in the subject they are struggling in.  These are all things any parent should be able to do in order to help their child excel.  Why should a school object when a parent becomes more involved in a child's education when it is clear that her grades are slipping?  Why is this school so insistent on preventing parents from helping their children succeed?

Even if there were grounds for expulsion, shouldn't the school be happy that the girl's parents are trying to keep her from falling behind by homeschooling her during a period of absence?  Would they rather she be even more confused and behind in her subjects when she returns?

Also, who in the hell diagnosed this girl with a "phobia of school?"  Whoever they are they should never be allowed to practice psychiatry again.  That's one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard.  If this child were actually afraid of going to school then why in the world would she?  I'd imagine that she would be chronically absent and attempt to skip her classes.  If that were actually the case, her grades would be suffering in more subjects than two.  She would likely be failing all of her classes.  And not only did they diagnose her with this bogus phobia, they also placed her in a psychiatric ward!  How awful.

Most importantly, this girl and her siblings should NEVER BE TAKEN FROM THEIR PARENTS!  This is by far the most horrible thing resulting from the entire incident.  I cannot believe that in a supposedly developed nation that a teenage girl would be KIDNAPPED from her home by FIFTEEN policemen because her parents were TRYING TO HELP HER IN SCHOOL!  And then they would have the audacity to suggest that her siblings who are all enrolled in public schools be taken away as well!  That is what really makes me sick.  This entire family is being traumatized all because the parents were trying to help their child succeed.  Its absolutely horrible and completely unacceptable.

[??????????]

If WorldNetDaily is so upset about illegal immigrants breaking the law when it comes to the US, why don't they hold the same standard in this case?

Because in this case they disagree with the law. Duh.

lol ^^^^^^^

[Middle-aged Europe]

The situation involving Melissa Busekros has been in the headlines ever since the beginning of this month, when the officers arrived at her parents' home with a court order allowing them to take her into custody, "if necessary by force."

Which headlines? This is the first time I hear about a case like that. Seriously.

Considering that this news site doesn't seem to be most neutral on the globe to me, I would recommend to check whether this actually happened and if it happened that it happened in the way it is decribed there.

Is it true that attendance of public schools is mandatory in Germany. It is also true that "homeschooling" is all but non-existing as a political issue. General consensus is that compulsory education is a good thing and cases where people are favoring "homeschooling" are very rare and mostly seen as a obscurity. I'm not sure if a word for "homeschooling" even exists in German language.

In particular, the frequent allusions to Hitler and Nazi Germany in this "article" were hilarious. I was laughing my ass off after reading the last two paragraphs:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Oh, yeaaaahhh... that evil Jugendamt.



EDIT: Ah, well, I voted "Other" in the poll... "other" in the meaning of "good, even if unintentional, satire".

[Bono]

Is it true that attendance of public schools is mandatory in Germany.

Did I just read that right? Are private schools really illegal in Germany?

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

Is it true that attendance of public schools is mandatory in Germany.

Did I just read that right? Are private schools really illegal in Germany?

Yes IIRC

[Middle-aged Europe]

Is it true that attendance of public schools is mandatory in Germany.

Did I just read that right? Are private schools really illegal in Germany?

No.

In other words, I should have phrased the sentence differently.



EDIT - Longer explanation: There is a type of school in Germany officially called "Ersatzschule" ("Substitute school", "Alternative school"). Those are schools run by private and/or religious organizations who can serve, as the name implies, as an substitute for or alternative to public schools. Students may opt to receive their compulsary education at one of those schools. To achieve this, those private schools have to meet certain academic standards set by the state governments (education is an state issue, therefore the standards are set by the states; this also means that the standards differ from state to state, as do the standards for the public schools; the state ministers of education are trying to make sure that those standards differ not too much from each other through their regular conference).

If the academic standards are met, those schools are officially recognized as a "Ersatzschule". Those schools also may apply for or receive government aid, which means that they're at least partially financed through public money to some extent.

According to the numbers I've found, about 7% of all students are attending one of those schools, instead of a regular public school.

[Ebowed]

If WorldNetDaily is so upset about illegal immigrants breaking the law when it comes to the US, why don't they hold the same standard in this case?

Because in this case they disagree with the law. Duh.

lol ^^^^^^^

Pointing out the hypocrisy, fool, because persons such as yourself (and WorldNetDaily) have no rationale for deporting all illegal immigrants other than "THEY BROKE THE LAW!!111"

[minionofmidas]

Right. You have to attend a government-recognized school. That does not include homeschooling but does include recognized private schools, not all of which follow the government schools' curriculum (which greatly differs from state to state etc anyways) to a T.

There is a weirdly tiny evangelical minority opposed to this state of things. Mostly their problem is with sex ed. (Unlike Old Europe, I actually have heard of cases like that before, though.) Courts are pretty lenient with them... initially... they could theoretically just lock up the parents on the first offence.
There is no mainstream political sympathy for their position whatsoever (especially since there are evangelical government recognized private schools... just not everywhere.)

The Jugendamt's modern-day approach is extremely hands-off, and doesn't compare with its American equivalents. Despite repeatedly drawing medial fire whenever something bad happens to a child and the Jugendamt knew about the family. Things were very different back in the 50s and 60s though.
 
It's probably sanest to refuse to read the article itself - reactions like Padfoot's tell me enough about it already. (Tutoring illegal in Germany? Lol. Where'd they come up with that lie? )

[??????????]

If WorldNetDaily is so upset about illegal immigrants breaking the law when it comes to the US, why don't they hold the same standard in this case?

Because in this case they disagree with the law. Duh.

lol ^^^^^^^

Pointing out the hypocrisy, fool, because persons such as yourself (and WorldNetDaily) have no rationale for deporting all illegal immigrants other than "THEY BROKE THE LAW!!111"

No rationale? You mean like driving up crime rates, littering our towns/countryside, bringing drugs into our community, and on and on. I know you have not a clue, i.e. real life experience with illegal immigrants, about the problems, and I know you don't care because it "doesn't affect you", so really I'm not even going to debate the matter with you as you are a mental lightweight on the subject.

[Colin]

Well I can't find this sourced anywhere outside of the Conservative and Christian media. No German news sources or American newspapers or even a report from Fox News for God's sake I would have expected their hounds to pounce on this.

If anything this article is probably trumping up what actually happened. I would have to look at the events as reported by a non biased source to know for certain what really happened.

[Gabu]

Judging from Lewis' post and from the complete and utter lack of pretty much anyone covering this story, I'm going to guess that this is WorldNetDaily being WorldNetDaily and that either there is much more to this story than what is given here or this thing is largely or wholly fabricated by someone along the line.

[Colin]

Judging from Lewis' post and from the complete and utter lack of pretty much anyone covering this story, I'm going to guess that this is WorldNetDaily being WorldNetDaily and that either there is much more to this story than what is given here or this thing is largely or wholly fabricated by someone along the line.

The only German sources I could find were from either blogs or kreuz.net which, to the best of my knowledge, is a conservative, very conservative, Catholic online magazine.

Seems to fit the standard right-wing story about Europe. Gay, atheist, Nazis and Communists are barging into the homes of good. honest, bible believing Christians and controlling their lives to make them conform to their evil atheist, secular humanist ways. If you do not stop this they will bring this over to America and the secular humanists will try to destroy you and all other good American bible-believing Christians in their attempt to make the world Satanic and ungodly.

[minionofmidas]

We will, too.

[Bono]

If WorldNetDaily is so upset about illegal immigrants breaking the law when it comes to the US, why don't they hold the same standard in this case?

Because in this case they disagree with the law. Duh.

lol ^^^^^^^

Pointing out the hypocrisy, fool, because persons such as yourself (and WorldNetDaily) have no rationale for deporting all illegal immigrants other than "THEY BROKE THE LAW!!111"

Actually, I have. Don't strawman me. My rationale for wanting to deport illegal immigrants is that I don't want to be around them. In a government system where public property exists, the consent of the people is necessary for allowing foreigners in public property. Thus, if the people don't want them, there is the rationale. The reason the people don't want them doesn't have to be reasonable. My reason is that they lower wages, cause cultural upheavals and crime.

[David S]

The situation involving Melissa Busekros has been in the headlines ever since the beginning of this month, when the officers arrived at her parents' home with a court order allowing them to take her into custody, "if necessary by force."

Which headlines? This is the first time I hear about a case like that. Seriously.

Considering that this news site doesn't seem to be most neutral on the globe to me, I would recommend to check whether this actually happened and if it happened that it happened in the way it is decribed there.

I googled it before I posted it. Here's another source:
http://www.netzwerk-bildungsfreiheit.de/html/pe_erlangen_en.html

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Fascism.  This law is obsolete and needs to be stricken from the books.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

Fascism.  This law is obsolete and needs to be stricken from the books.

[Ebowed]

My rationale for wanting to deport illegal immigrants is that I don't want to be around them. ... Thus, if the people don't want them, there is the rationale. The reason the people don't want them doesn't have to be reasonable. My reason is that they lower wages, cause cultural upheavals and crime.

I expect the typical "high crime, drug dealers" talking points from StatesRights, which conveniently and ever so incorrectly assume that all illegal immigrants are guilty of these things (but then again, I wouldn't expect StatesRights to believe in the principle of innocence until proven guilt, anyway).

But you, you don't want to be around them?  I don't even want to know what you consider to be a "cultural upheaval", or why exactly this is a bad thing.  They cause lower wages because they're taken advantage of by employers, not because of inherent problems with them personally.  Crime rate disparities among different types of people is nothing new, either, and a horrible reason to take action for reasons that should be obvious.  You could apply any of these reasons to another group of people and it would hold no water.  The only reason this is any different is because of their 'illegal' status.  So, yes, it is because they "broke the law" (and a very meaningless and unnecessarily beuarocratic one at that).

As for your remark that the justification doesn't have to be reasonable if enough people want it, wouldn't that be tyranny of the majority?

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

They violate the law by being here. end of story.

[Ebowed]

They violate the law by being here. end of story.

So, do you support imprisonment of marijuana users?

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

They violate the law by being here. end of story.

So, do you support imprisonment of marijuana users?

he illegal immigration law is a good idea banning marijuana isn't.