The Second Commandment Republicans

[© Tweed the Younger]

Good column by Joe Klein in TIME this week discussion how "Second Commandment Republicans" Huckabee and Brownback struggle to catch on within the party because they are "more interested in salvation than condemnation."

link

[Padfoot]

Huckabee isn't really a Republican if you ask me.  He's a Blue Dog.  Even John Stewart thinks he's a liberal.  It wouldn't surprise me if Huckabee went independent should Guliani become the GOP nominee.

[Wrecking Ball and Chain]

Huckabee isn't really a Republican if you ask me.  He's a Blue Dog.  Even John Stewart thinks he's a liberal.  It wouldn't surprise me if Huckabee went independent should Guliani become the GOP nominee.

He's the only candidate calling for a flat tax.

[jokerman]

Indeed.  Huckabee is from Arkansas.  If he was really a Blue Dog Democrat, well....then he'd be a Blue Dog Democrat.  He's not; he's a Republican.

[Pictor Ignotus]

Huckabee isn't really a Republican if you ask me.  He's a Blue Dog.  Even John Stewart thinks he's a liberal.  It wouldn't surprise me if Huckabee went independent should Guliani become the GOP nominee.

He's clearly not megaconservative on health care, but other than that, how is he not a Republican?

[adam]

Huckabee isn't really a Republican if you ask me.  He's a Blue Dog.  Even John Stewart thinks he's a liberal.  It wouldn't surprise me if Huckabee went independent should Guliani become the GOP nominee.

He's clearly not megaconservative on health care, but other than that, how is he not a Republican?

He also takes left leaning positions on the environment and has said that he would support funding the arts on a federal level.

[skybridge]

Huckabee isn't really a Republican if you ask me.  He's a Blue Dog.  Even John Stewart thinks he's a liberal.  It wouldn't surprise me if Huckabee went independent should Guliani become the GOP nominee.

He's the only candidate calling for a flat tax.

Huckabee and Brownback.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

"I'm a 'grace' Christian," Huckabee told me over lunch recently, "not a 'law' Christian. The Second Commandment--do unto others--is the basic tenet of my faith. And so I believe that life begins at conception, but I don't believe it ends at birth. I believe we have a responsibility to feed the hungry, to provide a good education, a safe neighborhood, health care ... That's why I talk so much about the need for music and art programs in our schools. I know some conservatives think it's foolish, but I just believe it's necessary to build whole, creative individuals."

Huh?!

I have no problem with art and music programs in school.  My 6th graded is in choir in school and we also force her to take private piano lessons...but I have no idea how Huckabee ties the public teaching of art and music in with "do unto others".

no wonder this guy is not gaining ground

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Also, I am not sure what this article is trying to claim.  Is it trying to claim that Huckabee doesn't preach the necessity of repentance along with the necessity of grace?

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

"I'm a 'grace' Christian," Huckabee told me over lunch recently, "not a 'law' Christian. The Second Commandment--do unto others--is the basic tenet of my faith. And so I believe that life begins at conception, but I don't believe it ends at birth. I believe we have a responsibility to feed the hungry, to provide a good education, a safe neighborhood, health care ... That's why I talk so much about the need for music and art programs in our schools. I know some conservatives think it's foolish, but I just believe it's necessary to build whole, creative individuals."

the more I read this, the more it bothers me. 

He claims he is a “grace Christian” and not a “law Christian”...obviously using some code words that are meant to mean something...then turns right around and creates his own extra-biblical legalism by adding the public funding of art and music into the process of being a Christian.

Don’t get me wrong – I support the public funding of the public teaching of art and music- but where, exactly, in the bible does it command supporting of public funding and teaching of art and music?

---

Late Edit:

There, I edited my bible to include Huckabee’s Law:

Acts 15:19 "It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood vote for public funding for the public education of arts and music."

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Huckabee isn't really a Republican if you ask me.  He's a Blue Dog.  Even John Stewart thinks he's a liberal.  It wouldn't surprise me if Huckabee went independent should Guliani become the GOP nominee.

If that's at all true, every single Blue Dog needs to be immediately expelled for being an extreme far right lunatic.

[memphis]

The Second Commandment is about not making idols. What does this have to do with anything? I think it shows how full of crap Huckabee is that he confuses it with the Golden Rule. I can't believe nobody has called him on it yet the way everybody was all over Howard Dean for saying the Book of Job was his favorite New Testament passage.

[Deano963]

This excerpt from that article sums up the modern-day republic party very well in my opinion:

Several weeks ago, I watched Huckabee lose an audience at the National Review's Conservative Summit with his talk of feeding the hungry and health care. "I think he's in the wrong party," a gentleman from Pennsylvania told me.


Yup - if you give a s*** about feeding the hungry and providing health coverage for the uninsured, there is no room for you in the republic party. This, coming from the party that claims to have a monopoly on "family values" (the next person I hear say those words I am going to kill), faith in general, and fashions themselves as the arbiters of virtue. Gimme a fukkin break.

[Deano963]

Also, I am not sure what this article is trying to claim.  Is it trying to claim that Huckabee doesn't preach the necessity of repentance along with the necessity of grace?

jmfcst, I think you are having a hard time understanding any of this b/c you are the very kind of republic voter/Christian who Klein refers to that preaches condemnation and hell far more than you speak of good works or heaven. This article reads like a  case study of the wing of the republic party that you belong to.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Also, I am not sure what this article is trying to claim.  Is it trying to claim that Huckabee doesn't preach the necessity of repentance along with the necessity of grace?

jmfcst, I think you are having a hard time understanding any of this b/c you are the very kind of republic voter/Christian who Klein refers to that preaches condemnation and hell far more than you speak of good works or heaven. This article reads like a  case study of the wing of the republic party that you belong to.

Considering the fact that the word "REPENT" occurs 53 times in the New Testament, I don't know why it is so hard to preach a balanced message of faith and repentance leading one into God's grace.

Again, I repeat my question, which was balance and in line with WHOLE of scripture: 

I am not sure what this article is trying to claim.  Is it trying to claim that Huckabee doesn't preach the necessity of repentance along with the necessity of grace?

[Gustaf]

This excerpt from that article sums up the modern-day republic party very well in my opinion:

Several weeks ago, I watched Huckabee lose an audience at the National Review's Conservative Summit with his talk of feeding the hungry and health care. "I think he's in the wrong party," a gentleman from Pennsylvania told me.


Yup - if you give a s*** about feeding the hungry and providing health coverage for the uninsured, there is no room for you in the republic party. This, coming from the party that claims to have a monopoly on "family values" (the next person I hear say those words I am going to kill), faith in general, and fashions themselves as the arbiters of virtue. Gimme a fukkin break.

You know, if you have a problem with "a gentleman from Pennsylvania" go find that guy. Don't talk about it here like it is an actual issue.

[memphis]

Again, what does any of this have to do with the Second Commandment, which forbids making idols?

[Deano963]

This excerpt from that article sums up the modern-day republic party very well in my opinion:

Several weeks ago, I watched Huckabee lose an audience at the National Review's Conservative Summit with his talk of feeding the hungry and health care. "I think he's in the wrong party," a gentleman from Pennsylvania told me.


Yup - if you give a s*** about feeding the hungry and providing health coverage for the uninsured, there is no room for you in the republic party. This, coming from the party that claims to have a monopoly on "family values" (the next person I hear say those words I am going to kill), faith in general, and fashions themselves as the arbiters of virtue. Gimme a fukkin break.

You know, if you have a problem with "a gentleman from Pennsylvania" go find that guy. Don't talk about it here like it is an actual issue.

It is an actual issue genius. In fact, it is the very issue that the TIME article and this thread are meant to discuss.

And if you knew how to read, Gustaf, you would see that it is more than just one "gentleman from Pennsylvania" who feels this way:

Several weeks ago, I watched Huckabee lose an audience at the National Review's Conservative Summit

My opinion of you goes down every single time you post, if that's possible.

[Deano963]

Again, I repeat my question, which was balance and in line with WHOLE of scripture: 

I am not sure what this article is trying to claim.  Is it trying to claim that Huckabee doesn't preach the necessity of repentance along with the necessity of grace?

If you can't figure out the answer to that question on your own, I very much doubt anyone can explain it to you. The article itself is not complicated - what Klein is trying to say is very straightforward and Huckabee's positions are clear.

[motomonkey]

There are really two "Second Commandments." The Old Testament contains the 10 Commandments given to Moses (Ex 20:4).  In this list, the Second Commandment prohibits idol worship.

However,in the New Testament, Jesus says in Matt 22:37-39:
 "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'   38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'

I don't think Klein is going to catch alot of flack for misquoting the "Second Commandment." 

I do think the religious right would do well to expand their two dimensional agenda (abortion and same sex marriage) to include sensible policy for fighting poverty, disease and helping the weakest among us.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Again, I repeat my question, which was balance and in line with WHOLE of scripture: 

I am not sure what this article is trying to claim.  Is it trying to claim that Huckabee doesn't preach the necessity of repentance along with the necessity of grace?

If you can't figure out the answer to that question on your own, I very much doubt anyone can explain it to you. The article itself is not complicated - what Klein is trying to say is very straightforward and Huckabee's positions are clear.

Oh, I think the message comes across loud and clear:
1)  Huckabee doesn't preach repentance from sin.
2)   In place of repentance from sin, Huckabee substitutes the funding of public art and music classes.
3)  Time magazine likes Christian preachers and politicians who don’t preach repentance.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

I do think the religious right would do well to expand their two dimensional agenda (abortion and same sex marriage) to include sensible policy for fighting poverty, disease and helping the weakest among us.

Actually, social conservatives give far more to charities than liberals. 

It is one thing to practice one’s own religion by providing for the needy through the taxation of others, it is quite another thing to practice one’s own religion by providing for the needy out of your own pocket.

Something tells me Jesus preached a religion of personal involvement, not a religion of proxy.

[Deano963]

Again, I repeat my question, which was balance and in line with WHOLE of scripture: 

I am not sure what this article is trying to claim.  Is it trying to claim that Huckabee doesn't preach the necessity of repentance along with the necessity of grace?

If you can't figure out the answer to that question on your own, I very much doubt anyone can explain it to you. The article itself is not complicated - what Klein is trying to say is very straightforward and Huckabee's positions are clear.

Oh, I think the message comes across loud and clear:
1)  Huckabee doesn't preach repentance from sin.

He never said that. You are simply making sh**t up. Just b/c he never talks about the issue of repentance in this specific article does not mean he does not believe in it. That is an extremely stupid arguemnt on your part.

2)   In place of repentance from sin, Huckabee substitutes the funding of public art and music classes.

He never said that either. All he said was he believes in public art and music classes, a belief that sets him apart from most conservatives, who cionsider it wasteful spending to put public dollars into such programs. Where in the world you got the idea that he is against repentance (like that would even matter in the first place) b/c of that is beyond me, as I'm not quite sure what the hell music classes and repentance have to do with oneanother.

But I guess to someone like you, if there was an article about the price of banjos in Lithuania and the writer did not somehow slip in a quick tidbit about repenting one's sins, you would conclude that said writer does not believe in repentance.

3)  Time magazine likes Christian preachers and politicians who don’t preach repentance.

No.......... ONE of TIME magazine's writers is doing a piece on two republican presidential hopefuls who are different from the rest of the GOP field in that they also preach things such as helping the poor, protecting the vulnerable, expanding health care, and compassion for the less fortunate, and contrasts them to the rest in the that group of clowns preaches nothing but fire and brimstone.

It's sad that you can't tell the difference.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Where in the world you got the idea that he is against repentance (like that would even matter in the first place) b/c of that is beyond me, as I'm not quite sure what the hell music classes and repentance have to do with one another.

BINGO!  That’s my point, exactly – public funding of art and music classes, even though I support both, have nothing to do with being a Christian. 

Better questions to ask are:
1) Why does Huckabee bring up the public supporting of art and music when he discusses his religion, when the two have nothing to do with each other?  As a Christian himself, why he would he want to distinguish between Christians who support the public funding of the arts and Christians who do not?
2) If Huckabee preaches repentance, what exactly did he mean by saying, “I am a ‘Grace’ Christian, not a ‘law’ Christian?”  Was he juxtaposing Grace and opposition to public spending on arts and music?  Was he juxtaposing himself with other Christians who preach repentance?

Regardless of what Huckabee meant by the labels he used, he was attacking the typical social conservative's attitude towards helping the poor, the same typical social conservative who gives far more to charity to help others than the typical American voter.

[Tik]

Better questions to ask are:
1) Why does Huckabee bring up the public supporting of art and music when he discusses his religion, when the two have nothing to do with each other?  As a Christian himself, why he would he want to distinguish between Christians who support the public funding of the arts and Christians who do not?
2) If Huckabee preaches repentance, what exactly did he mean by saying, “I am a ‘Grace’ Christian, not a ‘law’ Christian?”  Was he juxtaposing Grace and opposition to public spending on arts and music?  Was he juxtaposing himself with other Christians who preach repentance?

1) The answers: 'they don't' and 'campaigning', respectively. Politicians tend to do things like this - take a question about one thing and somehow work in their views on something that may or may not be entirely related, just to make it stick in people's minds. The goal is not to make people ask 'What does religion have to do with public funding for the arts?' but rather 'Huckabee is both religious AND he supports funding the arts.'

2) The silliness about public funding for the arts aside, I think it's relatively clear what the difference between 'grace' and 'law' Christians is. A 'law' Christian focuses a lot on the Law, the Pentateuch. Obey the Ten Commandments or face Hell, that sort of thing. 'Grace' Christians are bigger fans of the gospels and the letters, where it says that Christ fulfilled the Law, thus we were no longer cursed by being imperfect under it. Instead of the Ten Commandments they like to focus on when Jesus was tested by the Pharisees, who asked him what the greatest commandment was (out of the Law, obviously). Jesus replied that "Love God" and "Love your neighbor" were the first and second most important commandments and that the entire Law could be summarized as such. I know you know all of this, so I don't understand why you kept begging for an explanation.