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Author Topic: 2004 and beyond.....  (Read 12788 times)
PD
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« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2004, 11:40:23 pm »
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You know, Hannity is fantastic on TV and radio,

I tried listening to his radio show and 90% consists of Hannity extolling his humility.  The show moves at a speed that is 10x too slow for me.  He also ducks serious questions by those on the other side.  His show time also consists on 50% commericials.

I have never listened to his radio show, but I do listen to Rush Limbaugh, along with a few other conservative talk show hosts that are only here in CA. Those commercials, like they are here, pay for the program. They have to be there, otherwise there would be no show.
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M
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« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2004, 11:44:37 pm »
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I hardly think I turned on you by pointing out that Reagan simply did not factually, historically, provably win the greatest landslides in history. '84 was very impressive. So was '80. But they are not what they aren't.
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« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2004, 11:51:01 pm »
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Well, for incumbant President Carter to lose to Reagan wiing only 49 votes for his re-election shows that many wanted a change.
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12th Doctor
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« Reply #28 on: January 31, 2004, 11:53:58 pm »
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I hardly think I turned on you by pointing out that Reagan simply did not factually, historically, provably win the greatest landslides in history. '84 was very impressive. So was '80. But they are not what they aren't.

Acctually, Reagan won in 84 with the highest vote EV vote total in history, so technically,that would be the biggest landslide in history.
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M
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« Reply #29 on: January 31, 2004, 11:55:44 pm »
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No, it would not. Washington and Monroe (?) got higher percentages, just using totals is arbitrary and ridiculous.

I am a Reagan fan myself. But I am also a fan of historical accuracy.
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« Reply #30 on: February 01, 2004, 12:00:32 am »
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Nixon had the big win in 1972. Would Hillary prevail over Rice or Rudy?Huh
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Platypus
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« Reply #31 on: February 01, 2004, 12:18:04 am »
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No offense, but FDR was an idiot. I admit he did a few good things, but he was repeatedly informed of Soviet infiltration of our government and said that it could not happen. He would not believe it. He was even shown papers and proof. Well, it turned out that there were thousands of Soviet spys holding high government offices in our government. That was proved after his death. A bunch of them were his personal assistants and advisors. At one point, one of his vice presidents (not Truman, I forget his name) was a Soviet spy. Not too many people know this information because the majority of it was kept secret for a long time. He was shaking hands with Stalin and in his mind he was saying "I'm so glad that Russia and America can get along." At the exact moment, Stalin was standing there and in his head saying "Sucker." FDR would just not believe it.
He did only a few good things?  Please.  He brought the country out of the GREAT depresson, he brought down Hitler and eventually Stalin, and won four election decisively.  Reagan is nowhere near FDR.
Yeah, he brought us out of the Depression, but it took him long enough. He did not bring down Hitler, Stalin did, he captured Berlin (something that never should've happened, we should have taken Berlin), Stalin was never brought down, he died. Reagan won the two largest landslides in history. Reagan brought down the Soviet Union. Reagan would have won four terms and then some if it weren't for term limits. Term limits did not exist when FDR was in office. A survey proved that the people still favored Reagan on a landslide scale in 1988 and if he could run they would elect him again.

This sparks a bit of debate... Polls also show that if Clinton was able to run in 2000, he would have won.

Each party has their own heros, and nemisii. For the Democrats, its FDR/Bush. For the Republicans, it's Reagan/Clinton. I personally think Reagan was a pile of the proverbial, but nothing I say will make you change your mind. And nothing you say about FDR, the man who led us out of ther world's darkest days as a superpower, will make me change mine.

The US has such deep splits between the parties sometimes i'm amazed we aren't in another civil war. :S
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« Reply #32 on: February 01, 2004, 12:25:32 am »
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I'd say both the Bush and Clinton nemesii are temporary things. Republicans also hated Carter, and dems Nixon. FDR and Reagan are both on their way to being truly national great American historical figures. In my mind, both are among the greatest presidents in history. I do not think Bush should be judged yet. Clinton has been weighed in the balance and found wanting.

GOPers did not really hate FDR in 20 years until Treason. I for one am sorry about that. So he wasn't perfect and trusted Stalin too much. He did save the nation from destruction twice. Not every prez can say that. I'd say the figure who at least used to dominate that party was Kennedy. But Kennedy has been used to explain a ridiculous variety of platforms. He was actually from the same political school as his friend Scoop Jackson and now Joe Lieberman, a hawk in any case where we could promote democracy. The fact that Ted Kennedy and Sen. JFK (D-MA) claim to be Kennedylike is preposterous. Teddy actually voices support for the PLO terrorists who murdered his brother! How sick can you get?
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« Reply #33 on: February 01, 2004, 12:29:52 am »
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I've never really understood Kennedy-hatred. Teddy Kennedy I can understand, he really is a nutjob. But JFK was a great president, if only for one thing he did-Cuban Missile Crisis.

If he did nothing else that was good, at least he did this. He saved America from the most deadly situation it has ever been in.

Kennedy wasn't perfect, and I don't agree with all he did. He certainly in't my favorite POTUS. But he was truly great under pressure Smiley
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« Reply #34 on: February 01, 2004, 12:31:26 am »
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If Kerry/Edwards ticket win the election that puts us Dems in the White House for 12 years as I see it.  Kerry wins 2 terms, followed by Edwards for 2 terms
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« Reply #35 on: February 01, 2004, 12:39:34 am »
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JFK was, I think, a very good president in the short time he was in.  He cut taxes and believed in a strong national defense.  I think he was a good leader.
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« Reply #36 on: February 01, 2004, 12:41:19 am »
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No, the GOP would throw *everything* at ousting Kerry in 2008. He is a liberal, remember?

I think that 2008 will be a big year. Over the last 3 elections, and also this one, we have had extremely close elections when you consider historical results. 2008, with two completely new players (if GWB wins 04) will be massive. Everything will be on the line.

I just hope Hilary isn't running.
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« Reply #37 on: February 01, 2004, 12:59:22 am »
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Why do you not want Hillary to run?
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Platypus
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« Reply #38 on: February 01, 2004, 01:03:20 am »
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Because she would lose, and yet another 4-8 years of GOP-Presidency would be horrible; if they were in power until 2016 they would control the whole supreme court.
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« Reply #39 on: February 01, 2004, 01:04:56 am »
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Is it that you think she's too polarizing a figure to win a general election?
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Platypus
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« Reply #40 on: February 01, 2004, 01:07:49 am »
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Absolutely.

Democrats will vote for her, but Independents won't; they (with reason) don't actually see her as a politician, more as an appointee.
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« Reply #41 on: February 01, 2004, 01:15:57 am »
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I wouldn't be surprised if she didn't make herself available for the ticket with Kerry.  Of course, it would be Kerry's decision but for her, given her ambition, it gives her great opportunity to be the nominee in 2008 should Kerry lose, and the heir apparent in 2012 if Kerry wins.  The woman is obviously VERY ambitious.  I know this.  I wouldn't want to be the Democrat in her way when she decides to go after the nomination.
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StevenNick
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« Reply #42 on: February 01, 2004, 01:24:04 am »
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No offense, but FDR was an idiot. I admit he did a few good things, but he was repeatedly informed of Soviet infiltration of our government and said that it could not happen. He would not believe it. He was even shown papers and proof. Well, it turned out that there were thousands of Soviet spys holding high government offices in our government. That was proved after his death. A bunch of them were his personal assistants and advisors. At one point, one of his vice presidents (not Truman, I forget his name) was a Soviet spy. Not too many people know this information because the majority of it was kept secret for a long time. He was shaking hands with Stalin and in his mind he was saying "I'm so glad that Russia and America can get along." At the exact moment, Stalin was standing there and in his head saying "Sucker." FDR would just not believe it.
He did only a few good things?  Please.  He brought the country out of the GREAT depresson, he brought down Hitler and eventually Stalin, and won four election decisively.  Reagan is nowhere near FDR.

That's garbage.  FDR sank the country deeper into the depression.  He set ridiculous price and wage controls, gave the unions power to do just about whatever they wanted, he destroyed vast amounds of crops and livestock to raise farm prices when untold millions around the country were STARVING!  This man was not a good president.  He was a complete moron who didn't know the first thing about economics.  He blamed investors for the Great Depression and continued to "punish" them with his policies throughout his time as president.  He regulated every facet of business and effectively killed any new business ventures through his meddling.  At best his policies simply made it hard for new jobs to be created, but more than likely his policies destroyed thousands, perhaps even millions of jobs.  Then of course there's FDR's constant trampling of the Constitution.  He governed by Executive Order, packed the courts with other incompetent New Deal sympathizers, and put the Japanese into internment camps.  What about this man deserves respect.  He was a fraud, a failure ("A miserable failure...) who rivals Johnson, Carter, and Nixon for the title of WORST PRESIDENT EVER!  
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Dave from Michigan
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« Reply #43 on: February 01, 2004, 01:24:41 am »
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Quote
Because she would lose, and yet another 4-8 years of GOP-Presidency would be horrible; if they were in power until 2016 they would control the whole supreme court

she would lose and 4 to 8 years of the GOP would be awesome and your most likely right about controling the supreme court they could overturn roe vs. wade
 
 
 
 
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« Reply #44 on: February 01, 2004, 01:27:34 am »
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I've never really understood Kennedy-hatred. Teddy Kennedy I can understand, he really is a nutjob. But JFK was a great president, if only for one thing he did-Cuban Missile Crisis.

If he did nothing else that was good, at least he did this. He saved America from the most deadly situation it has ever been in.

Kennedy wasn't perfect, and I don't agree with all he did. He certainly in't my favorite POTUS. But he was truly great under pressure Smiley

But the Cuban Missile Crisis was of JFK's own making.  If he hadn't idiotically refused to give air support to the anti-Castro forces in the Bay of Pigs fiasco, there may not have ever been a Cuban Missile Crisis.  I certainly don't hate JFK, but the only reason he is considered a great president is because he was assassinated.  That's it.  The man was just as inept as Jimmy Carter and he was a real scumbag in his personal life.
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« Reply #45 on: February 01, 2004, 08:13:24 am »
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Reagan was the best president this nation has ever seen.
(coughFDRcough)

FDR was not a good president.  In fact I would say he is the worst, with Johnson a close second, and Wilson third.
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« Reply #46 on: February 01, 2004, 08:16:52 am »
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1. Ohio
2. West Virginia
3. Nevada
4. New Hampshire
5. Arizona
6. Florida

All six would be within reach, but only under the wildest of circumstances.
Ohio and WV will go Dem, I'm pretty sure.  But the Republicans will pick up NM, Wisconsin, and Iowa, so the Dems only pick up one EV there.

I think you're wrong about OH and WV.  The cultural polarization/patriotism issue will help there.  And the economy is not that bad in either state.  The union voters are in any case a declining part of the electorate.  I also think in addition to picking up NM, WI, and IA we'll get Minnesota - why not?  Actually I think its more likely we'll keep OH and WV than pick up MN or even NM/WI/IA.  I'm big on continuity.
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« Reply #47 on: February 01, 2004, 08:19:47 am »
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No offense, but FDR was an idiot. I admit he did a few good things, but he was repeatedly informed of Soviet infiltration of our government and said that it could not happen. He would not believe it. He was even shown papers and proof. Well, it turned out that there were thousands of Soviet spys holding high government offices in our government. That was proved after his death. A bunch of them were his personal assistants and advisors. At one point, one of his vice presidents (not Truman, I forget his name) was a Soviet spy. Not too many people know this information because the majority of it was kept secret for a long time. He was shaking hands with Stalin and in his mind he was saying "I'm so glad that Russia and America can get along." At the exact moment, Stalin was standing there and in his head saying "Sucker." FDR would just not believe it.
He did only a few good things?  Please.  He brought the country out of the GREAT depresson, he brought down Hitler and eventually Stalin, and won four election decisively.  Reagan is nowhere near FDR.

FDR was just a socialist.  He did more to destroy the Constitution than any other president.
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« Reply #48 on: February 01, 2004, 08:22:31 am »
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I wouldn't be surprised if she didn't make herself available for the ticket with Kerry.  Of course, it would be Kerry's decision but for her, given her ambition, it gives her great opportunity to be the nominee in 2008 should Kerry lose, and the heir apparent in 2012 if Kerry wins.  The woman is obviously VERY ambitious.  I know this.  I wouldn't want to be the Democrat in her way when she decides to go after the nomination.

Hah, I wish Hilary would run as VP with Kerry.  I can't think of a more helpful VP choice for our side!
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Sibboleth
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« Reply #49 on: February 01, 2004, 10:19:52 am »
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Please do NOT attack FDR like that... I realise that he was left wing and that certain Republicans hate for that but please be serious.
He did NOT drag America deeper into the Depression, and although the New Deal did not end the Depression, it made it hurt less and did a lot to help poor people.
I wish we had it over here and not the uncaring incompetence of the National Government.

I've never been a fan of revisionist history, it's more about selling more books than actually informing people about the past. Not that I'm a big fan of Whig or Marxist interpretations either...
Post-Revisionism can be good though Smiley
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"I have become entangled in my own data, and my conclusion stands in direct contradiction to the initial idea from which I started. Proceeding from unlimited freedom, I end with unlimited despotism. I will add, however, that there can be no solution of the social formula except mine."
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