Libertarian Thread

[SPC]

I have created a thread for Libertarians and libertarian-leaning people to discuss their positions. Please do not ruin this thread.

[MaC]

I like this thread

I'm libertarian on about every issue-that is except I'm pro-life, and dislike the 'open borders' position the LP has.

Oh yeah, and paleo-libertarians rule.

Ron Paul 4 ever

government sucks

about all that needs saying...

[SPC]

I'm about the same only I am pro-choice, anti-gay marriage, and support the death penalty.

[afleitch]

Then you're not Libertarian...get the hell off my board!

Kidding...just.

[MaC]

I'm about the same only I am pro-choice, anti-gay marriage, and support the death penalty.

can't say I feel the same way. 

Death Penalty is a state issue, even though I'm against abortion I think it should be also because Roe v Wade is pure activism and it oversteps the bounds of what national government can/should do.

Gay marriage is some thing I think-that most libertarians can agree that it's not up to the state to decide.  Whether they like it or not is another matter.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

Not even remotely libertarian and trolling the thread.

[Dr. Cynic]

Please do not ruin this thread.

Too late...

[Hatman 🍁]

l1b3r+@r14nZ sux lol omg

[MaC]

l1b3r+@r14nZ sux lol omg

why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?





...huh?

[Hatman 🍁]

l1b3r+@r14nZ sux lol omg

why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?
why do you hate freedom?





...huh?

Freedom is bad, that's why.

[Bacon King]

I don't really think I'm a libertarian, but I'm closer to that ideology than the beliefs of conservatives, liberals, or populists.

I'd say, for the most part, I'm in step on social issues. I'm against the death penalty, though I don't really know where the Libertarian Party stands on that. I'm also against legalization of 'hard' drugs.

Economic issues are a different matter entirely. I believe in the free market and I do think government is too large, and all that, but I also believe that some sort of societal safety net is a neccessity. Some people do genuinely need a hand-up.

[Ban my account ffs!]

I consider myself a social libertarian. 

I am pro-choice (though we need to step up our efforts on pregnancy prevention, help to single mothers who are abandoned by the baby's fathers, adoption as an alternative).

Anti-death penalty
Pro-legalization of prostitution
Pro-legalization of some drugs
Liberalization of alcohol laws (lower the legal drinking age to 18, allow sale of alcohol without liquor license, repeal laws about drinking in public, etc.)

I also believe that freedom of speech means freedom of speech.  As long as you are not threatening someone or saying things that can cause harm (verbal abuse), you should have the right to say what you want to say.  I think the idea of laws against "curse words" are ridiculous, especially since the people that made those laws probably don't even know the origins of our curse words.

On economic issues, however, I am not libertarian in the "OMG... the Free Market will make everything better" way.  I am libertarian in that I believe everyone truly deserves the chance to make themselves successful, and that relies on four basic things:

1)  The inherent RIGHT to a quality education.

2)  The RIGHT to quality health care.

3)  The ability to move your ideas/services/products to the market on an efficient network of infrastructure.

4)  The right to do all of this in a clean environment in a sustainable way.

This truly levels the playing field for everyone rather than letting rich peoples' kids go to the best schools, have the best health care, the best modes of transport, and the best environment so they have the best chances at succeeding themselves.

Sure, we're all born and we're all equal to begin with... but you can't believe that free-market Capitalism will give everyone a level playing field to make themselves successful and still call yourself a Libertarian.

[MaC]

On economic issues, however, I am not libertarian in the "OMG... the Free Market will make everything better" way.  I am libertarian in that I believe everyone truly deserves the chance to make themselves successful, and that relies on four basic things:

1)  The inherent RIGHT to a quality education.

2)  The RIGHT to quality health care.

3)  The ability to move your ideas/services/products to the market on an efficient network of infrastructure.

4)  The right to do all of this in a clean environment in a sustainable way.

This truly levels the playing field for everyone rather than letting rich peoples' kids go to the best schools, have the best health care, the best modes of transport, and the best environment so they have the best chances at succeeding themselves.

Sure, we're all born and we're all equal to begin with... but you can't believe that free-market Capitalism will give everyone a level playing field to make themselves successful and still call yourself a Libertarian.

social libertarian is just a phrase people with your veiws use to describe themselves since the  term 'liberal' is often villified.

As for economic veiws, to truly be libertarian it does mean recognizing negative rights.  You have the right to get education and health care yourself, but you don't need to prey upon the wealth of your fellow man in order to get them.  Economic collectivism is really not different that social collectivism to say that people 'owe' you an education and proper health care would not be different that saying that moral nature of citizens should be owed to you and as such gays shouldn't marry or other like matters.

For example-health care.  Now we've never had a completely free market in this area.  However if you look back to the 1950s you can see that health care was very affordable to the majority of it's people.  Family doctors existed before HMOs and lack of regulation of drugs led to doctors being able to perscribe more cures for the diseases.  Fast forward to now where we have an incredibly red-taped system of complex regulations doctors must follow and an insurance system that allows for spending of what people don't readily need as much as emergency operations and we can see how much government has screwed things up.  Even if a "totally free market" is feasable at this point, it would generally help to lessen the size and scope of government in this area.

[Dr. Cynic]

On economic issues, however, I am not libertarian in the "OMG... the Free Market will make everything better" way.  I am libertarian in that I believe everyone truly deserves the chance to make themselves successful, and that relies on four basic things:

1)  The inherent RIGHT to a quality education.

2)  The RIGHT to quality health care.

3)  The ability to move your ideas/services/products to the market on an efficient network of infrastructure.

4)  The right to do all of this in a clean environment in a sustainable way.

This truly levels the playing field for everyone rather than letting rich peoples' kids go to the best schools, have the best health care, the best modes of transport, and the best environment so they have the best chances at succeeding themselves.

Sure, we're all born and we're all equal to begin with... but you can't believe that free-market Capitalism will give everyone a level playing field to make themselves successful and still call yourself a Libertarian.

social libertarian is just a phrase people with your veiws use to describe themselves since the  term 'liberal' is often villified.

As for economic veiws, to truly be libertarian it does mean recognizing negative rights.  You have the right to get education and health care yourself, but you don't need to prey upon the wealth of your fellow man in order to get them.  Economic collectivism is really not different that social collectivism to say that people 'owe' you an education and proper health care would not be different that saying that moral nature of citizens should be owed to you and as such gays shouldn't marry or other like matters.

For example-health care.  Now we've never had a completely free market in this area.  However if you look back to the 1950s you can see that health care was very affordable to the majority of it's people.  Family doctors existed before HMOs and lack of regulation of drugs led to doctors being able to perscribe more cures for the diseases.  Fast forward to now where we have an incredibly red-taped system of complex regulations doctors must follow and an insurance system that allows for spending of what people don't readily need as much as emergency operations and we can see how much government has screwed things up.  Even if a "totally free market" is feasable at this point, it would generally help to lessen the size and scope of government in this area.

Not to nitpick, but I'm going to anyway... Social Libertarian and Social Liberal are so close to each other its hard to differentiate. Clarence Darrow for example could be described as both.

[Bacon King]

Not to nitpick, but I'm going to anyway... Social Libertarian and Social Liberal are so close to each other its hard to differentiate. Clarence Darrow for example could be described as both.

what would you consider to be the differences between the two labels? stance on gun control, maybe?

[Dr. Cynic]

Minor things like gun control or maybe affirmative action... They are essentially the same, as I said.

[John Dibble]

I'm against the death penalty, though I don't really know where the Libertarian Party stands on that.

IIRC we don't have one. We do favor harsher punishments for criminals(hard labor, less perks in prison, paying restitution to victims or their families, etc), but the death penalty is not specified as for or against so it's left up to individual members to decide their position on that.

[MaC]

I'm against the death penalty, though I don't really know where the Libertarian Party stands on that.

IIRC we don't have one. We do favor harsher punishments for criminals(hard labor, less perks in prison, paying restitution to victims or their families, etc), but the death penalty is not specified as for or against so it's left up to individual members to decide their position on that.

I'd say it's probably a good thing.  I can seriously consider both liberal and conservative views on criminal justice.

[7,052,770]

What about my right not to be afraid of getting shot my some thug with a handgun?