Why I have given up feminism
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Author Topic: Why I have given up feminism  (Read 1990 times)
nclib
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« on: April 01, 2007, 03:14:10 PM »

I have decided that feminism is now a discredited ideology, because:

-most feminists are intellectual, and of course, intellectualism is bad
-any woman who speaks her mind is a threat to patriarchy, and of course patriarchy is desirable. However, if she is conservative, she can criticize any man she wants
-if a woman is married, she should lose her right to not be raped
-some careers should not be held by a woman simply because she is female. It does not matter if she has the right qualities for the job
-homosexuality behind closed doors is a threat to America
-women are meant to be mothers, regardless of whether they want to be
-an embryo has more rights than a pregnant woman since the pregnant woman is a woman and the embryo might become a boy
-women should take their husband's last name when they marry since it shows that a man is the head of the household

BTW, I've renamed myself after my new hero, Phyllis Schlafly. It is nice to see a woman who agrees with me that women should stay in their place.
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bullmoose88
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« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2007, 03:15:35 PM »

Aren't april fools jokes supposed to be funny?
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Colin
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« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2007, 04:15:34 PM »

Aren't april fools jokes supposed to be funny?

You seem to be a diluded poor fellow bullmoose. Wink

Just another reminder of why I hate April Fools Day.
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bullmoose88
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« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2007, 04:22:08 PM »

Aren't april fools jokes supposed to be funny?

You seem to be a diluded poor fellow bullmoose. Wink

Just another reminder of why I hate April Fools Day.

I think you're possessed by the spirit of Opebo.

Out Demon OUT!
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David S
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« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2007, 04:28:29 PM »

Aren't april fools jokes supposed to be funny?

You seem to be a diluded poor fellow bullmoose. Wink

Just another reminder of why I hate April Fools Day.

I think you're possessed by the spirit of Opebo.


Arghh! What a horrible fate!
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John Dibble
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« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2007, 04:32:11 PM »

Aren't april fools jokes supposed to be funny?

Or at least not obvious at first glance.
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Ebowed
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« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2007, 04:40:03 PM »

Phyllis, where do you stand on the legality of prostitution?
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Alcon
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« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2007, 04:46:01 PM »

I hope you realize that I'm going to be calling you Phyllis long after April 1st ends.
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nclib
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« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2007, 04:49:12 PM »

Phyllis, where do you stand on the legality of prostitution?

It should be illegal because it goes against Christian values. On the other hand, I support women being treated as sex objects in marriage. Wink
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MaC
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« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2007, 05:47:11 PM »

Though I must admit that I've never seen you before on this forum, it is good that you have seen the light.  Feminism is like a sponge that sucks the soul and drains out happiness and joy.

Now go and live life! 

Exactly, feminism is soulless.
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2007, 05:57:13 PM »

Though I must admit that I've never seen you before on this forum, it is good that you have seen the light.  Feminism is like a sponge that sucks the soul and drains out happiness and joy.

Now go and live life! 

I not sure whether this is an April fool or not, but if it isn't.. I'd like you to tell that to, oh well, a good proportion of the female of the species.

Feminism has probably been one of the most important liberating forces of the 20th Century - for men and women, despite some of the Nihilistic and misandrous writing which came from a small coterie of women in the 1970s and 80s who got far more attention then they deserved.
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MaC
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« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2007, 06:10:37 PM »

Since nobody's bothering to rebut nclib's straw man, I suppose I'll be the hero Wink

(quotes are too hard to do and I'm lazy)


I have decided that feminism is now a discredited ideology, because:

nclib: most feminists are intellectual, and of course, intellectualism is bad
Mac: first you are assuming that most feminists are intellectual.  I see it as quite the opposite-mostly in the form of 'men oppressed us for 6000 years, and that pisses me off, so I gotta get back at them'

-any woman who speaks her mind is a threat to patriarchy, and of course patriarchy is desirable. However, if she is conservative, she can criticize any man she wants
-no 'archy' is desirable.  If there are social norms, then it's not oppressive-difference between what's societally acceptable and legal.  I don't know where you get the 'if she's conservative she can criticize any man she wants. Huh   But in general it is better to have more conservatives in society than liberals.

-if a woman is married, she should lose her right to not be raped
-Why marry?  Better yet-why would you marry and then not want sex?  I suppose marital rape does happen, but why would she ever abstain if her husband was good at pleasuring her?

-some careers should not be held by a woman simply because she is female. It does not matter if she has the right qualities for the job
-load of crap, nobody still says this.  However there are physical limitations that are less likely for a woman to characteristically have.  If it involves lifting heavy machinery or something that requires a great burden of physical exertion-by the law of averages and the way humans are built, a greater percentage of men are qualified for that job.  Doesn't mean if she really wanted it she couldn't/shouldn't get it though.

-homosexuality behind closed doors is a threat to America
-no, but I am annoyed by the parades.  I know a guy that likes sheep and he doesn't go prancing around saying "OMG LOOK @ ME I'm T3h Bestiality"
What does homosexuality have to do with anything anyways?  It's not a problem for me.

-women are meant to be mothers, regardless of whether they want to be
-if you take a pro-creation standpoint.  At this point in history, our world is overcrowding though.  Still, if there's a situation where in a family that a mother can opt for a full time job or staying home with the kids, it'd probably be incredibly beneficial to have a mom raising the kids rather than latch-key trying to raise them. 

-an embryo has more rights than a pregnant woman since the pregnant woman is a woman and the embryo might become a boy
-again, utter nonsense.  If your mom decided to abort you, would you support her decision?  Better yet, if a mom could end an 'inconvenience' in her life by taking another life-well all is the better, no?

-women should take their husband's last name when they marry since it shows that a man is the head of the household
-it's not a matter of that-it's more or less to show unity.  In Mexico they combine the woman and mens last names.  I don't see any problem with that either. 

BTW, I've renamed myself after my new hero, Phyllis Schlafly. It is nice to see a woman who agrees with me that women should stay in their place.

no idea who that is...
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Joe Republic
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« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2007, 06:21:25 PM »

BTW, I've renamed myself after my new hero, Phyllis Schlafly. It is nice to see a woman who agrees with me that women should stay in their place.

no idea who that is...

You don't know who Phyllis Schlafly is?  She's the reason why we don't have an Equal Rights Amendment.  I was beginning to think you were an expert on anti-feminism... Tongue
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2007, 06:59:16 PM »

I feel like demolishing MaC's poins to be perfectly honest.

nclib: most feminists are intellectual, and of course, intellectualism is bad
Mac: first you are assuming that most feminists are intellectual.  I see it as quite the opposite-mostly in the form of 'men oppressed us for 6000 years, and that pisses me off, so I gotta get back at them'

Have you ever read any feminist literature? Not Andrea Dworkin or Valerie Solanas and those crazies who were truly only ever listenened to in the explosion of radicalism in the 70s (Given the some of the things Dworkin experienced in relationships with men it's not surprising she turned out the way she did.) but liberal feminism, libertarian feminism.. Feminism is a movement designed by it's nature to be libertarian, to free one's self from pre-conceived roles of 'gender'. (That isn't to say that there aren't natural differences between Men and women, but these differences must only be seen under the interpretation of culture. 500 years ago people's conceptions of gender differences would be different from ours.)

-any woman who speaks her mind is a threat to patriarchy, and of course patriarchy is desirable. However, if she is conservative, she can criticize any man she wants
-no 'archy' is desirable.  If there are social norms, then it's not oppressive-difference between what's societally acceptable and legal.  I don't know where you get the 'if she's conservative she can criticize any man she wants. Huh   But in general it is better to have more conservatives in society than liberals.

How can social norms such as, say, the practice of sati (ie. wife-burning) not be considered oppresive. In the history of the world most of the major political leaders, artists, intellectuals, people whose viewpoints we use to interpret our own world were men. Nothing wrong with male intellectuals (even if many of them had views vilier than Valerie Solanas) but literature and history has very little focus on the minds of females.

A society with more conservatives than liberals should scare me. But it doesn't as it describes the vast majority of cultures. (I'm talking of mentality here, not of actual fixed poltical 'actions')

-if a woman is married, she should lose her right to not be raped
-Why marry?  Better yet-why would you marry and then not want sex?  I suppose marital rape does happen, but why would she ever abstain if her husband was good at pleasuring her?

Why marry? I don't know personally I couldn't give a fig about a ceremony whose romantic connections are pretty much a Chivarly era-upper class\Victorian construction, one which has lasted for some reason, possibly to do with religion, but I really don't care what anyone else does. Why shouldn't women wish to abstain from sex - perhaps she is heavily preganant, or is suffering from illness or perhaps she just doesn't bloody feel like it. That should be her decision as much as his. Ireland just illegalized martial rape roughly 7 years ago.


-some careers should not be held by a woman simply because she is female. It does not matter if she has the right qualities for the job
-load of crap, nobody still says this.  However there are physical limitations that are less likely for a woman to characteristically have.  If it involves lifting heavy machinery or something that requires a great burden of physical exertion-by the law of averages and the way humans are built, a greater percentage of men are qualified for that job.  Doesn't mean if she really wanted it she couldn't/shouldn't get it though.

What do you mean no-one says this? Look at the amount of women at head of major corporations recently, or political leaders, I have heard on this forum that Hilliary shouldn't be president simply because she's a she. (Admittely those were from annoying republicans anyway but it shows that such prejudices are still around). As for heavy machinery given that I have no personal body strength there are plently of women who could do a better job than me, a man.

-homosexuality behind closed doors is a threat to America
-no, but I am annoyed by the parades.  I know a guy that likes sheep and he doesn't go prancing around saying "OMG LOOK @ ME I'm T3h Bestiality"
What does homosexuality have to do with anything anyways?  It's not a problem for me.

Feminists allied with homosexuals as both women and gays were seen inferior within certain strands of mainstream culture at the time. The parades annoy me too. But free speech.

-women are meant to be mothers, regardless of whether they want to be
-if you take a pro-creation standpoint.  At this point in history, our world is overcrowding though.  Still, if there's a situation where in a family that a mother can opt for a full time job or staying home with the kids, it'd probably be incredibly beneficial to have a mom raising the kids rather than latch-key trying to raise them. 

Why can't, now here's a radical idea, the father educate and stay with kids and the woman work. Not saying this way is better than the vice-versa option. But if I ever have kids that is how I would like it to be.

-an embryo has more rights than a pregnant woman since the pregnant woman is a woman and the embryo might become a boy
-again, utter nonsense.  If your mom decided to abort you, would you support her decision?  Better yet, if a mom could end an 'inconvenience' in her life by taking another life-well all is the better, no?

Not a fan of abortion but your arguments here are strawmen.

-women should take their husband's last name when they marry since it shows that a man is the head of the household
-it's not a matter of that-it's more or less to show unity.  In Mexico they combine the woman and mens last names.  I don't see any problem with that either. 

Then how come in most cultures the children carry on the father's name? Family in western culture has usually been a very male-centred structure.
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snowguy716
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« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2007, 07:33:51 PM »

I feel like demolishing MaC's poins to be perfectly honest.

nclib: most feminists are intellectual, and of course, intellectualism is bad
Mac: first you are assuming that most feminists are intellectual.  I see it as quite the opposite-mostly in the form of 'men oppressed us for 6000 years, and that pisses me off, so I gotta get back at them'

Have you ever read any feminist literature? Not Andrea Dworkin or Valerie Solanas and those crazies who were truly only ever listenened to in the explosion of radicalism in the 70s (Given the some of the things Dworkin experienced in relationships with men it's not surprising she turned out the way she did.) but liberal feminism, libertarian feminism.. Feminism is a movement designed by it's nature to be libertarian, to free one's self from pre-conceived roles of 'gender'. (That isn't to say that there aren't natural differences between Men and women, but these differences must only be seen under the interpretation of culture. 500 years ago people's conceptions of gender differences would be different from ours.)

-any woman who speaks her mind is a threat to patriarchy, and of course patriarchy is desirable. However, if she is conservative, she can criticize any man she wants
-no 'archy' is desirable.  If there are social norms, then it's not oppressive-difference between what's societally acceptable and legal.  I don't know where you get the 'if she's conservative she can criticize any man she wants. Huh   But in general it is better to have more conservatives in society than liberals.

How can social norms such as, say, the practice of sati (ie. wife-burning) not be considered oppresive. In the history of the world most of the major political leaders, artists, intellectuals, people whose viewpoints we use to interpret our own world were men. Nothing wrong with male intellectuals (even if many of them had views vilier than Valerie Solanas) but literature and history has very little focus on the minds of females.

A society with more conservatives than liberals should scare me. But it doesn't as it describes the vast majority of cultures. (I'm talking of mentality here, not of actual fixed poltical 'actions')

-if a woman is married, she should lose her right to not be raped
-Why marry?  Better yet-why would you marry and then not want sex?  I suppose marital rape does happen, but why would she ever abstain if her husband was good at pleasuring her?

Why marry? I don't know personally I couldn't give a fig about a ceremony whose romantic connections are pretty much a Chivarly era-upper class\Victorian construction, one which has lasted for some reason, possibly to do with religion, but I really don't care what anyone else does. Why shouldn't women wish to abstain from sex - perhaps she is heavily preganant, or is suffering from illness or perhaps she just doesn't bloody feel like it. That should be her decision as much as his. Ireland just illegalized martial rape roughly 7 years ago.


-some careers should not be held by a woman simply because she is female. It does not matter if she has the right qualities for the job
-load of crap, nobody still says this.  However there are physical limitations that are less likely for a woman to characteristically have.  If it involves lifting heavy machinery or something that requires a great burden of physical exertion-by the law of averages and the way humans are built, a greater percentage of men are qualified for that job.  Doesn't mean if she really wanted it she couldn't/shouldn't get it though.

What do you mean no-one says this? Look at the amount of women at head of major corporations recently, or political leaders, I have heard on this forum that Hilliary shouldn't be president simply because she's a she. (Admittely those were from annoying republicans anyway but it shows that such prejudices are still around). As for heavy machinery given that I have no personal body strength there are plently of women who could do a better job than me, a man.

-homosexuality behind closed doors is a threat to America
-no, but I am annoyed by the parades.  I know a guy that likes sheep and he doesn't go prancing around saying "OMG LOOK @ ME I'm T3h Bestiality"
What does homosexuality have to do with anything anyways?  It's not a problem for me.

Feminists allied with homosexuals as both women and gays were seen inferior within certain strands of mainstream culture at the time. The parades annoy me too. But free speech.

-women are meant to be mothers, regardless of whether they want to be
-if you take a pro-creation standpoint.  At this point in history, our world is overcrowding though.  Still, if there's a situation where in a family that a mother can opt for a full time job or staying home with the kids, it'd probably be incredibly beneficial to have a mom raising the kids rather than latch-key trying to raise them.

Why can't, now here's a radical idea, the father educate and stay with kids and the woman work. Not saying this way is better than the vice-versa option. But if I ever have kids that is how I would like it to be.

-an embryo has more rights than a pregnant woman since the pregnant woman is a woman and the embryo might become a boy
-again, utter nonsense.  If your mom decided to abort you, would you support her decision?  Better yet, if a mom could end an 'inconvenience' in her life by taking another life-well all is the better, no?

Not a fan of abortion but your arguments here are strawmen.

-women should take their husband's last name when they marry since it shows that a man is the head of the household
-it's not a matter of that-it's more or less to show unity.  In Mexico they combine the woman and mens last names.  I don't see any problem with that either. 

Then how come in most cultures the children carry on the father's name? Family in western culture has usually been a very male-centred structure.

Your efforts are futile.

He'll ignore everything you say, then insult you, and then recoil and whine if you insult him back.
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2007, 07:35:42 PM »

I know, I know.. I just find it hilarious he describes himself as a "libertarian". He seems to have very conservative prejudices to me.
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Everett
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« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2007, 08:08:57 PM »

It's also one of the many obstacles towards manliness in this age.  You all need to stop reading about the glass ceiling and go play a sweaty game of football.
I'm sorry man, but a sweaty game of football is clearly not manly enough unless it involves blood and murder. I propose going out and shooting things, like young women. That is how I attract all the chicks. *wink*
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Gabu
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« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2007, 08:10:53 PM »

It's also one of the many obstacles towards manliness in this age.  You all need to stop reading about the glass ceiling and go play a sweaty game of football.
I'm sorry man, but a sweaty game of football is clearly not manly enough unless it involves blood and murder. I propose going out and shooting things, like young women. That is how I attract all the chicks. *wink*

ONE TIME I WENT OUT AND PUT LIPSTICK ON AND JUMPED ROPE

THEN I GOT ALL THE CHICKS
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nclib
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« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2007, 08:29:51 PM »

Ah, that was fun. Now, I'm back to myself. Smiley

Anyhow, I find it interesting how many people claim that feminism goes against nature, yet few people still claim that equality between the races is unnatural.
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MaC
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« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2007, 09:54:19 PM »

I feel like demolishing MaC's poins to be perfectly honest.

nclib: most feminists are intellectual, and of course, intellectualism is bad
Mac: first you are assuming that most feminists are intellectual.  I see it as quite the opposite-mostly in the form of 'men oppressed us for 6000 years, and that pisses me off, so I gotta get back at them'

Have you ever read any feminist literature? Not Andrea Dworkin or Valerie Solanas and those crazies who were truly only ever listenened to in the explosion of radicalism in the 70s (Given the some of the things Dworkin experienced in relationships with men it's not surprising she turned out the way she did.) but liberal feminism, libertarian feminism.. Feminism is a movement designed by it's nature to be libertarian, to free one's self from pre-conceived roles of 'gender'. (That isn't to say that there aren't natural differences between Men and women, but these differences must only be seen under the interpretation of culture. 500 years ago people's conceptions of gender differences would be different from ours.)

-any woman who speaks her mind is a threat to patriarchy, and of course patriarchy is desirable. However, if she is conservative, she can criticize any man she wants
-no 'archy' is desirable.  If there are social norms, then it's not oppressive-difference between what's societally acceptable and legal.  I don't know where you get the 'if she's conservative she can criticize any man she wants. Huh   But in general it is better to have more conservatives in society than liberals.

How can social norms such as, say, the practice of sati (ie. wife-burning) not be considered oppresive. In the history of the world most of the major political leaders, artists, intellectuals, people whose viewpoints we use to interpret our own world were men. Nothing wrong with male intellectuals (even if many of them had views vilier than Valerie Solanas) but literature and history has very little focus on the minds of females.

A society with more conservatives than liberals should scare me. But it doesn't as it describes the vast majority of cultures. (I'm talking of mentality here, not of actual fixed poltical 'actions')

-if a woman is married, she should lose her right to not be raped
-Why marry?  Better yet-why would you marry and then not want sex?  I suppose marital rape does happen, but why would she ever abstain if her husband was good at pleasuring her?

Why marry? I don't know personally I couldn't give a fig about a ceremony whose romantic connections are pretty much a Chivarly era-upper class\Victorian construction, one which has lasted for some reason, possibly to do with religion, but I really don't care what anyone else does. Why shouldn't women wish to abstain from sex - perhaps she is heavily preganant, or is suffering from illness or perhaps she just doesn't bloody feel like it. That should be her decision as much as his. Ireland just illegalized martial rape roughly 7 years ago.


-some careers should not be held by a woman simply because she is female. It does not matter if she has the right qualities for the job
-load of crap, nobody still says this.  However there are physical limitations that are less likely for a woman to characteristically have.  If it involves lifting heavy machinery or something that requires a great burden of physical exertion-by the law of averages and the way humans are built, a greater percentage of men are qualified for that job.  Doesn't mean if she really wanted it she couldn't/shouldn't get it though.

What do you mean no-one says this? Look at the amount of women at head of major corporations recently, or political leaders, I have heard on this forum that Hilliary shouldn't be president simply because she's a she. (Admittely those were from annoying republicans anyway but it shows that such prejudices are still around). As for heavy machinery given that I have no personal body strength there are plently of women who could do a better job than me, a man.

-homosexuality behind closed doors is a threat to America
-no, but I am annoyed by the parades.  I know a guy that likes sheep and he doesn't go prancing around saying "OMG LOOK @ ME I'm T3h Bestiality"
What does homosexuality have to do with anything anyways?  It's not a problem for me.

Feminists allied with homosexuals as both women and gays were seen inferior within certain strands of mainstream culture at the time. The parades annoy me too. But free speech.

-women are meant to be mothers, regardless of whether they want to be
-if you take a pro-creation standpoint.  At this point in history, our world is overcrowding though.  Still, if there's a situation where in a family that a mother can opt for a full time job or staying home with the kids, it'd probably be incredibly beneficial to have a mom raising the kids rather than latch-key trying to raise them.

Why can't, now here's a radical idea, the father educate and stay with kids and the woman work. Not saying this way is better than the vice-versa option. But if I ever have kids that is how I would like it to be.

-an embryo has more rights than a pregnant woman since the pregnant woman is a woman and the embryo might become a boy
-again, utter nonsense.  If your mom decided to abort you, would you support her decision?  Better yet, if a mom could end an 'inconvenience' in her life by taking another life-well all is the better, no?

Not a fan of abortion but your arguments here are strawmen.

-women should take their husband's last name when they marry since it shows that a man is the head of the household
-it's not a matter of that-it's more or less to show unity.  In Mexico they combine the woman and mens last names.  I don't see any problem with that either. 

Then how come in most cultures the children carry on the father's name? Family in western culture has usually been a very male-centred structure.

Your efforts are futile.

He'll ignore everything you say, then insult you, and then recoil and whine if you insult him back.

I know, I know.. I just find it hilarious he describes himself as a "libertarian". He seems to have very conservative prejudices to me.

The first part, yes.  I've said what needs to be said, and I have no need to clarify.  I see no need to insult either of you gentlemen.
Gully, how are my views not libertarian?  I am not saying that the government should intervene in many of these such matters-I am simply pointing out that in some case I may have a personal disagreement or disgust.

I can say with regards to your stuff.
"But free speech" with regards to the parade-I never argued against that...
You want to be a stay at home dad, fine by me.  I'd personally hate it because I'd get bored and I'm a purpose-driven and not a nurture driven person.
Last names-why is this a big deal.  Call yourself Butternut Oakscratch for all I care.  Last name sharing is a concept of unity in my mind.  You say that that is characteristic of Western Culture?  Think again.  Other cultures are far more oppressive to women.  The Japanese name for 'wife' is equivalent to 'around the house'.  I'd argue that this would be oppressive, not name-sharing.
Intellectualism is rare in this day among either sex.  How many great philosophers are around these days?  But I'd argue that philosophy may just be one of those things that men by nature are more interested in than women.

I believe that gender roles exist on a level greater than our biology.  It deals in terms of energy-how people interact, what each gender has to offer is different and unique.  Yet, what annoys me is that how we act isn't true to our core.  Yes, there will naturally be some more masculine or feminine people of each sex.  But there are distinct qualities of each sex that we can pride ourselves with. 
What we had back in then was gender oppression-some good came out of the movement from the 60s.  The glass ceiling being broken was a great thing-but in turn we also got not equality, but sameness.
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2007, 09:14:34 AM »

Though I must admit that I've never seen you before on this forum, it is good that you have seen the light.  Feminism is like a sponge that sucks the soul and drains out happiness and joy.

Now go and live life! 

I not sure whether this is an April fool or not, but if it isn't.. I'd like you to tell that to, oh well, a good proportion of the female of the species.

Feminism has probably been one of the most important liberating forces of the 20th Century - for men and women, despite some of the Nihilistic and misandrous writing which came from a small coterie of women in the 1970s and 80s who got far more attention then they deserved.

You want me to tell women that I don't care much for feminism?  You're acting as if they would stick their nose up at me and dismiss me as an anti-intellectual neanderthal, then go off with some wimp with a grad school degree who knows how to treat a woman with respect.

Quite the opposite, I've found.

Feminism has not liberated anyone.  It has kept both men and women alike in chains.  Feminism is a anti-human.  This is why feminists have on their side the homosexuals, the abortionists, and the environmentalists (who love trees more than their fellow man).

It is not the "women should have rights" part of feminism that I disagree with.  It is the entire philosophy behind it that I object to: that society is artificial and the power to shape it should be vested in the government, to 'shape' these people however necessary.  It is an extremely dangerous idea.

Fortunately, Nature always prevails.  Feminism won't succeed because it is a sterilizing philosophy.  Many of the older feminists are dying, without children of course.  The same will happen to the homosexuals and abortionists.  It is Nature's way of destroying a virus.

So I am not threatened by feminism or any of those things.  What I don't like is where it is written into the law and men can be thrown in jail based on lies, or sued out of all their money in a divorce.  I don't like when men have to pay child support for children that aren't their own.

I'm posting on this board because feminism is silly, just like a man putting on a dress is silly.  It's also one of the many obstacles towards manliness in this age.  You all need to stop reading about the glass ceiling and go play a sweaty game of football.


For a start, ever read about the Bronze age\pre-agrigrian Matriachal societies - I imagine those living in those societies have a very different notion of human nature then we do. After all Human nature has been throughout the justification for all sorts of reactionary movements - it's natural for humans to have slaves, it's natural to have kings, queen and the Feudal system, it's natural to hunt, live in the wild - killing animals with your bare hands, etc. All sorts of human structures such as supermarkets, Televisions, etc are "unnatural".

The core of feminism is that society is a malleable changable structure which has been throughout ran by men to opress women, while the second of those two points can be argued the first cannot without a complete and utter blindness to history, also despite what many seem to think there are other ways to change society than pressurizing the goverment as feminism that's why there are feminist charities, organizations, artists, etc. All societies are shaped in this way, including your own one in whatever era, every society in history has thought itself to be the ideal representation of "human nature".

Oh for all your "manliness" you seem to have a big persecution complex like most of the anti-feminists. "Help, Help your being oppressed" and what's Gridiron football anyway, lots of men tackling each other mindlessly - seems rather gay to me.

(And I know plently of Abortionists (well pro-choice people), feminists - including my own mother and enviormentalists, and if you think they are anything like you describe. Than you are the sheltered one.)

@Mac:
Last Names are only an example - naming a child shows who "owns" the child - historically speaking the child was the property of the father who could do what he pleased with him\her. The process of naming is just a relic from those days.

Evidence that Man are more philosophical then Women? History is a dangerous reference given the proportion in western culture of educated men to educated women.

How did we get "sameness" in the post-60s generation? I agree that gender roles are somewhat biological in that men and women lean towards certain types of activities, but to what exact activities and behaviour seems to be chosen by societal structure (which again is not the goverment, interesting that right-wing libertarians are making the same mistakes the old communists did in confusing the two.)
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snowguy716
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« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2007, 11:52:10 AM »

As someone once stated in my Christian Tradition theology class:  "God put women on earth so that men could spread their seed to them and the women could bear their offspring."

And his oft repeated response to anything that suggested he read something:  "I don't read.  You don't have to read to be intelligent."

Typical reactionary conservative.  My guess is that he has some perverted sexual stimulation from watching movies like Schindler's List and "300".
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Bono
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« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2007, 12:38:00 PM »

I know, I know.. I just find it hilarious he describes himself as a "libertarian". He seems to have very conservative prejudices to me.

That is because you seem to be under the impression that just because a libertarian thinks something should be legal, he must think that thing is desirable also. I don't see why that is supposed to be true. I support the legality of drinking, and would support abolishing the drinking age. Yet I abhor drunks, and never drink alcohol myself.
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Reignman
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« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2007, 03:08:27 PM »

Aren't april fools jokes supposed to be funny?
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