Debs: Threat to Roosevelt or Wilson?

[TommyC1776]

Which one did he take most votes away from?  Actually, didn't some of Roosevelts probably would've voted for Wilson, I believe,  right??

[Dr. Cynic]

Actually, from what I've read, the nominations of Wilson and Roosevelt really spoiled Debs. The Dems had first been leaning towards House Speaker Champ Clark, a conservative. If it had just been Clark versus Taft, Debs would've actually had a chance to win some states.

[TommyC1776]

Actually, from what I've read, the nominations of Wilson and Roosevelt really spoiled Debs. The Dems had first been leaning towards House Speaker Champ Clark, a conservative. If it had just been Clark versus Taft, Debs would've actually had a chance to win some states.

o. wow.  cool.

[Dr. Cynic]

To follow up to that, the nation at the time was in a progressive mood.

[minionofmidas]

To follow up to that, the nation at the time was in a progressive mood.

...with the result that even people who were not, as it were, particularly progressive, were marketed as "Progressives".
Such as... you know... Woodrow Wilson. Or Teddy Roosevelt. Or even (before his presidency, which destroyed all such illusions) Bill Taft.

[memphis]

To follow up to that, the nation at the time was in a progressive mood.

...with the result that even people who were not, as it were, particularly progressive, were marketed as "Progressives".
Such as... you know... Woodrow Wilson. Or Teddy Roosevelt. Or even (before his presidency, which destroyed all such illusions) Bill Taft.

Roosevelt and Wilson were definately Progressives. Roosevelt went after shafty trusts, railroads, and slaughterhouses. Wilson was key in passing the Clayton anti-trust act, ending child labor (though the courts messed this up), and the 8 hour work day.

[minionofmidas]

To follow up to that, the nation at the time was in a progressive mood.

...with the result that even people who were not, as it were, particularly progressive, were marketed as "Progressives".
Such as... you know... Woodrow Wilson. Or Teddy Roosevelt. Or even (before his presidency, which destroyed all such illusions) Bill Taft.

Roosevelt and Wilson were definately Progressives. Roosevelt went after shafty trusts, railroads, and slaughterhouses. Wilson was key in passing the Clayton anti-trust act, ending child labor (though the courts messed this up), and the 8 hour work day.

True enough. That's what happens when politicians try to grab a certain mantle - they help pass some of the agenda associated with it.

Anyone as classist and as gung-ho imperialist as Teddy Roosevelt, or as racist as Woodrow Wilson... is not *exactly* what Progressivism was supposed to be about. Although neither man was exactly a dyed-in-the-wool reactionary either.

[memphis]

To follow up to that, the nation at the time was in a progressive mood.

...with the result that even people who were not, as it were, particularly progressive, were marketed as "Progressives".
Such as... you know... Woodrow Wilson. Or Teddy Roosevelt. Or even (before his presidency, which destroyed all such illusions) Bill Taft.

Roosevelt and Wilson were definately Progressives. Roosevelt went after shafty trusts, railroads, and slaughterhouses. Wilson was key in passing the Clayton anti-trust act, ending child labor (though the courts messed this up), and the 8 hour work day.

True enough. That's what happens when politicians try to grab a certain mantle - they help pass some of the agenda associated with it.

Anyone as classist and as gung-ho imperialist as Teddy Roosevelt, or as racist as Woodrow Wilson... is not *exactly* what Progressivism was supposed to be about. Although neither man was exactly a dyed-in-the-wool reactionary either.

Progressivism was frequently imperialist and racist. This gets downplayed in histories today, but it was absolutely part of the ideology. Opposition to imperialism would have been more of a conservative attitude in the period.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

To follow up to that, the nation at the time was in a progressive mood.

...with the result that even people who were not, as it were, particularly progressive, were marketed as "Progressives".
Such as... you know... Woodrow Wilson. Or Teddy Roosevelt. Or even (before his presidency, which destroyed all such illusions) Bill Taft.

Roosevelt and Wilson were definately Progressives. Roosevelt went after shafty trusts, railroads, and slaughterhouses. Wilson was key in passing the Clayton anti-trust act, ending child labor (though the courts messed this up), and the 8 hour work day.

True enough. That's what happens when politicians try to grab a certain mantle - they help pass some of the agenda associated with it.

Anyone as classist and as gung-ho imperialist as Teddy Roosevelt, or as racist as Woodrow Wilson... is not *exactly* what Progressivism was supposed to be about. Although neither man was exactly a dyed-in-the-wool reactionary either.

Progressivism was frequently imperialist and racist. This gets downplayed in histories today, but it was absolutely part of the ideology. Opposition to imperialism would have been more of a conservative attitude in the period.

Not Really. Traditional Isolationism would be associated with conservatives of the time. But Anti-Imperalism? No, Eugene Debs and Emma Goldman were the biggest anti-imperalists out there after all. Progressivism should be seen as movement to reform the worst excesses of the post-civil war economic system in the US whose reins were frequently grabbed by leading politicians - partly due to a real desire to reform, but also partly simply just to get elected. No segment of US history was more populist than the first 15 or so years of the 20th century imo.

[gorkay]

TR was all over the map politically during his long career. In 1912, he was a Progressive (read: liberal). By 1916 he was a moderate. By 1918 he was a conservative. Whichever way the country leaned, he leaned too.

[StateBoiler]

Based on what I've read, Debs was heavy in the union worker support, but not the union leadership. The major union leadership told their workers to support Wilson. So I'd say Wilson.