EU agrees on new racism rules.
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  EU agrees on new racism rules.
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Author Topic: EU agrees on new racism rules.  (Read 1581 times)
Ban my account ffs!
snowguy716
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« on: April 19, 2007, 07:39:56 PM »

http://www.startribune.com/133/story/1131328.html

You could get up to 3 years for condoning, denying, or "trivializing" crimes against humanity, genocide, etc. etc.


I am strongly opposed to this measure.  While I think anyone who denies the holocaust is an idiot, I think it is a blow to freedom to throw someone in jail for it.  Hooray to Britain, Denmark, and Italy for being skeptical and at least keeping freedom of expression in mind.

I think Hubert Humphrey had it right:  "The right to be heard does not equal the right to be taken seriously."  That's a good standard to apply here.
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John Dibble
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« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2007, 08:24:21 PM »

Well isn't that lovely - thoughtcrime legislation. Tongue
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Undisguised Sockpuppet
Straha
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« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2007, 10:21:08 PM »

Eurocracy in action.
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StatesRights
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« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2007, 10:23:30 PM »

Proving yet again that Europeans have yet to get a clue.
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bullmoose88
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« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2007, 11:33:32 PM »

Well isn't that lovely - thoughtcrime legislation. Tongue
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Ban my account ffs!
snowguy716
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« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2007, 12:04:08 AM »

Well, it's really a sad state of affairs when you have a bunch of stuffy bureaucrats making laws, especially when they don't have to be accountable to the people. 

One thing that really baffles me is that you may not purchase "Mein Kampf" in many European countries and "Triumph of the Will" is banned as well.  I could go down to Barnes and Noble tomorrow and buy Mein Kampf right from the shelf.

You cannot make up for past atrocities by banning books and adverse opinions (however false and stupid they may be).

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Ebowed
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« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2007, 12:18:29 AM »

No speech, however objectionable one might find it, should be banned.
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MaC
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« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2007, 01:28:19 AM »

The European Union is made of fail and AIDS
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GMantis
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« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2007, 11:19:24 AM »

And the provision against trivializing genocides means that it isn't possible anymore to even have objective discussions about genocide.
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Bono
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« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2007, 11:27:28 AM »

And the provision against trivializing genocides means that it isn't possible anymore to even have objective discussions about genocide.

Correct. More totalitarian crap from the franco-german axis.
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David S
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« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2007, 05:43:05 PM »

http://www.startribune.com/133/story/1131328.html

You could get up to 3 years for condoning, denying, or "trivializing" crimes against humanity, genocide, etc. etc.


I am strongly opposed to this measure.  While I think anyone who denies the holocaust is an idiot, I think it is a blow to freedom to throw someone in jail for it. 

^^^^^^
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Gustaf
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« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2007, 03:35:07 AM »

Well, it's really a sad state of affairs when you have a bunch of stuffy bureaucrats making laws, especially when they don't have to be accountable to the people. 

One thing that really baffles me is that you may not purchase "Mein Kampf" in many European countries and "Triumph of the Will" is banned as well.  I could go down to Barnes and Noble tomorrow and buy Mein Kampf right from the shelf.

You cannot make up for past atrocities by banning books and adverse opinions (however false and stupid they may be).



It is often noted that while Mein Kampf is banned in Germany now it could be bought in England during WWII. Of course, it's a best selling book in Turkey and most of the Middle East right now. Tongue

I think it's legal in Sweden, anyway - I know people who own it (non-Nazis).
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Middle-aged Europe
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« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2007, 04:25:48 AM »

Well, it's really a sad state of affairs when you have a bunch of stuffy bureaucrats making laws, especially when they don't have to be accountable to the people. 

One thing that really baffles me is that you may not purchase "Mein Kampf" in many European countries and "Triumph of the Will" is banned as well.  I could go down to Barnes and Noble tomorrow and buy Mein Kampf right from the shelf.

You cannot make up for past atrocities by banning books and adverse opinions (however false and stupid they may be).



It is often noted that while Mein Kampf is banned in Germany now it could be bought in England during WWII. Of course, it's a best selling book in Turkey and most of the Middle East right now. Tongue

I think it's legal in Sweden, anyway - I know people who own it (non-Nazis).

It's a common misconception that Mein Kampf is "banned" in Germany. There's no official ban, it's more of a copyright issue.

Until his death in 1945 the copyright for Mein Kampf belonged to Adolf Hitler. Hitler's official place of residence was Munich. So, when he died and the Third Reich came to an end, the copyright for Mein Kampf first went to the Allied administration of occupied Germany. The Allies then handed the copyright over to the state of Bavaria.

Since then it has been the policy of the government of Bavaria that it doesn't allow to reprint Mein Kampf, except for commented/"censored" issues intended for scientific or educational use. It is totally legal to own, buy and sell Mein Kampf, provided these issues were published before 1945. However, if you're printing or publishing Mein Kampf the government of Bavaria will sue you. The copyright for Mein kampf will end on December 31, 2015 (70 years after the death of the author).
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2007, 04:28:19 AM »

Well, it's really a sad state of affairs when you have a bunch of stuffy bureaucrats making laws, especially when they don't have to be accountable to the people. 

One thing that really baffles me is that you may not purchase "Mein Kampf" in many European countries and "Triumph of the Will" is banned as well.  I could go down to Barnes and Noble tomorrow and buy Mein Kampf right from the shelf.

You cannot make up for past atrocities by banning books and adverse opinions (however false and stupid they may be).



It is often noted that while Mein Kampf is banned in Germany now it could be bought in England during WWII. Of course, it's a best selling book in Turkey and most of the Middle East right now. Tongue

I think it's legal in Sweden, anyway - I know people who own it (non-Nazis).

It's a common misconception that Mein Kampf is "banned" in Germany. There's no official ban, it's more of a copyright issue.

Until his death in 1945 the copyright for Mein Kampf belonged to Adolf Hitler. Hitler's official place of residence was Munich. So, when he died and the Third Reich came to an end, the copyright for Mein Kampf first went to the Allied administration of occupied Germany. The Allies then handed the copyright over to the state of Bavaria.

Since then it has been the policy of the government of Bavaria that it doesn't allow to reprint Mein Kampf, except for commented/"censored" issues intended for scientific or educational use. It is totally legal to own, buy and sell Mein Kampf, provided these issues were published before 1945. However, if you're printing or publishing Mein Kampf the government of Bavaria will sue you. The copyright for Mein kampf will end on December 31, 2015 (70 years after the death of the author).
The net effect is the same though. Wink
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Middle-aged Europe
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« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2007, 05:07:00 AM »
« Edited: April 21, 2007, 05:15:25 AM by Rock Strongo (aka Lance Uppercut) »


Well, not entirely. The main effect is that you won't find new issues of Mein Kampf in the bookstore, which of course would also be the case had it been banned.

I don't how it is with antique shops. I guess if the owner has the balls to admit that he has an old issue of Main Kampf and is willing to sell it, it is not so much a problem. But I guess placing an issue of Mein Kampf in your shop window isn't necessarily good for business.

Out of sheer curiosity, I looked for English versions of Mein Kampf on the German Amazon.de website. "Hitler's Second Book: The Unpublished Sequel to Mein Kampf" is available. Second hand issues of the original Mein Kampf are also available in English on "Amazon Marketplace".

I'm actually curious what will happen in nine years from now. Will some tiny far right publishers start to print Mein Kampf again?
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Undisguised Sockpuppet
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« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2007, 10:30:59 AM »

This thoutcrime law is doubleplusgungood
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2007, 01:30:28 PM »


Well, not entirely. The main effect is that you won't find new issues of Mein Kampf in the bookstore, which of course would also be the case had it been banned.

I don't how it is with antique shops. I guess if the owner has the balls to admit that he has an old issue of Main Kampf and is willing to sell it, it is not so much a problem. But I guess placing an issue of Mein Kampf in your shop window isn't necessarily good for business.

Out of sheer curiosity, I looked for English versions of Mein Kampf on the German Amazon.de website. "Hitler's Second Book: The Unpublished Sequel to Mein Kampf" is available. Second hand issues of the original Mein Kampf are also available in English on "Amazon Marketplace".

I'm actually curious what will happen in nine years from now. Will some tiny far right publishers start to print Mein Kampf again?
You bet. (Although as that book is hardly an advertisement for Nazi "thought"...)
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Gustaf
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« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2007, 08:28:13 AM »

Well, it's really a sad state of affairs when you have a bunch of stuffy bureaucrats making laws, especially when they don't have to be accountable to the people. 

One thing that really baffles me is that you may not purchase "Mein Kampf" in many European countries and "Triumph of the Will" is banned as well.  I could go down to Barnes and Noble tomorrow and buy Mein Kampf right from the shelf.

You cannot make up for past atrocities by banning books and adverse opinions (however false and stupid they may be).



It is often noted that while Mein Kampf is banned in Germany now it could be bought in England during WWII. Of course, it's a best selling book in Turkey and most of the Middle East right now. Tongue

I think it's legal in Sweden, anyway - I know people who own it (non-Nazis).

It's a common misconception that Mein Kampf is "banned" in Germany. There's no official ban, it's more of a copyright issue.

Until his death in 1945 the copyright for Mein Kampf belonged to Adolf Hitler. Hitler's official place of residence was Munich. So, when he died and the Third Reich came to an end, the copyright for Mein Kampf first went to the Allied administration of occupied Germany. The Allies then handed the copyright over to the state of Bavaria.

Since then it has been the policy of the government of Bavaria that it doesn't allow to reprint Mein Kampf, except for commented/"censored" issues intended for scientific or educational use. It is totally legal to own, buy and sell Mein Kampf, provided these issues were published before 1945. However, if you're printing or publishing Mein Kampf the government of Bavaria will sue you. The copyright for Mein kampf will end on December 31, 2015 (70 years after the death of the author).

I didn't know that...I thought since that guy was convicted of his dog doing Heil Hitler, Germany had gone all the way, so to speak. But I've learned something new then.
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Middle-aged Europe
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« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2007, 08:51:51 AM »
« Edited: April 23, 2007, 08:54:03 AM by Rock Strongo (aka Lance Uppercut) »

I didn't know that...I thought since that guy was convicted of his dog doing Heil Hitler, Germany had gone all the way, so to speak. But I've learned something new then.

That dog owner was indicted, but not convicted. (Just looked it up with Google.)
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StatesRights
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« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2007, 08:55:22 AM »

I didn't know that...I thought since that guy was convicted of his dog doing Heil Hitler, Germany had gone all the way, so to speak. But I've learned something new then.

That dog owner was indicted, but not convicted. (Just looked it up with Google.)

Dog doing Heil Hitler? For real? That's hilarious!
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Middle-aged Europe
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« Reply #20 on: April 23, 2007, 08:59:31 AM »

I didn't know that...I thought since that guy was convicted of his dog doing Heil Hitler, Germany had gone all the way, so to speak. But I've learned something new then.

That dog owner was indicted, but not convicted. (Just looked it up with Google.)

Dog doing Heil Hitler? For real? That's hilarious!

Yeah, and guess what the dog's name was? "Adolf"!
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StatesRights
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« Reply #21 on: April 23, 2007, 09:01:55 AM »

I didn't know that...I thought since that guy was convicted of his dog doing Heil Hitler, Germany had gone all the way, so to speak. But I've learned something new then.

That dog owner was indicted, but not convicted. (Just looked it up with Google.)

Dog doing Heil Hitler? For real? That's hilarious!

Yeah, and guess what the dog's name was? "Adolf"!

Please tell me it was a German Sheppard and that someone has a picture?
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Middle-aged Europe
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« Reply #22 on: April 23, 2007, 09:09:29 AM »

I didn't know that...I thought since that guy was convicted of his dog doing Heil Hitler, Germany had gone all the way, so to speak. But I've learned something new then.

That dog owner was indicted, but not convicted. (Just looked it up with Google.)

Dog doing Heil Hitler? For real? That's hilarious!

Yeah, and guess what the dog's name was? "Adolf"!

Please tell me it was a German Sheppard and that someone has a picture?

Shepphard cross-breed:
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