Senate OKs Iraq Pullout bill by 51-46

[Tender Branson]

WASHINGTON - The Senate on Thursday narrowly passed legislation ordering U.S. troops to begin coming home from Iraq by Oct. 1. The vote was 51-46.

The House on Wednesday passed the same war spending bill, and President Bush next week is expected to receive, and swiftly reject, the legislation. The veto could fall on the fourth anniversary of the president’s Iraq “victory” speech, which is Tuesday.

The legislation is the first binding challenge on the war that Democrats have managed to execute since they took control of both houses of Congress in January.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18332561/

[MODU]

Good.  Bring on the veto.

[Gabu]

Good.  Bring on the veto.

I'm eager to see just how low Bush's approval rating can go.

[Nym90]

Good.  Bring on the veto.

I'm eager to see just how low Bush's approval rating can go.

Hah. Yeah, he might be headed for Nixon 1974 territory at this rate.

I support this bill, although I personally would've preferred a later date for withdrawal. But it's better than what we've got now, which is the standard by which legislation should be judged in my opinion.

[nlm]

This is just the warm up before the main event. Next month - funding for the actual war itself, as opposed to an emergency spending bill, comes front and center in the form of the 2008 budget.

The veto from Bush will be an important step in showing the American people that Bush is unwilling to change course without "extreme" actions from Congress. We shall see how it all ends up - but this veto may end up being Bush tighening the noose around his own throat.

[??????????]

Cut and run! Cut and run!

[YRABNNRM]

Cut and run! Cut and run!

Damn right.

Prediction: States will say something about my party affiliation in the upcoming posts.

[??????????]

Cut and run! Cut and run!

Damn right.

Sporting the badge of cowardice now, eh?

[nlm]

Cut and run! Cut and run!

You forgot

They are cutting the troops off the knees!!!

They are un-American!!!

They throw dog crap at the flag!!!!

Only gay people don't support the war!!!!

Bush is gods main man, how could anybody challenge his wisdom - just look at his track record!!!!

____________________________________________________________

Thankfully - I think the American people are tired of such rhetoric, and more interested in an actually change of direction.

[??????????]

Thankfully - I think the American people are tired of such rhetoric, and more interested in an actually change of direction.

The answer, of course, to all the current troubles in Iraq all falls on the hands and heads of Iran. We are just killing puppets over there in Iraq when we should be going after the puppetmaster. Of course the American people, largely, have no gut or spine these days. Cut and run for all I give a sh*t, we'll be back there within 10 years at the longest.

[nlm]

Thankfully - I think the American people are tired of such rhetoric, and more interested in an actually change of direction.

The answer, of course, to all the current troubles in Iraq all falls on the hands and heads of Iran. We are just killing puppets over there in Iraq when we should be going after the puppetmaster. Of course the American people, largely, have no gut or spine these days. Cut and run for all I give a sh*t, we'll be back there within 10 years at the longest.

If we have Presidents  whose diplomatic skills are as limited as our current one over that time frame - you may be right. But I think the American people will do better in choosing next time, and find somebody that has abilities that go farther than just brinksmanship and tough guy talk.

[Mr. Paleoconservative]

The Democrats should be ashamed of the pork added onto the bill, but putting that aside, the timeline is a responsible policy.  We have won in Iraq in as many ways as important; Saddam is gone, a new government has been put in place, and there have been two democratic elections.  Let's end this occupation now, and let the Iraqi people determine their own future, and let us get back to defending our vital interests instead of playing nation builder. 

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Good.  Bring on the veto.

^^^^^^^^^

[MasterJedi]

Ok, so now if this would actually come to pass the terrorist can come en masse and attack all the US troops when they're leaving and have the highest death count eve, great job Democrats!

Luckily it will be vetoed.

[nlm]

Ok, so now if this would actually come to pass the terrorist can come en masse and attack all the US troops when they're leaving and have the highest death count eve, great job Democrats!

Luckily it will be vetoed.

Uh - huh. So all the terrorists that were not in Iraq, but choose to come there, as opposed to here, after our invasion of Iraq are now going to put on their life vest an invade our boarders - because we all know that there are no terrorists outside of Iraq and that those terrorists outside of Iraq (that don't exist - I guess) wouldn't try anything here - only the ones in Iraq right now (thanks to us) would do that. How does this make sense?

[Keystone Phil]

Let his approval ratings plunge. A veto is the right thing to do.

We're going to take a hit on this, Republicans, but that's what we have to deal with. The only thing we can hope for is a Lieberman switch...

[nlm]

Let his approval ratings plunge. A veto is the right thing to do.

We're going to take a hit on this, Republicans, but that's what we have to deal with. The only thing we can hope for is a Lieberman switch...

It's a non-binding resolution? Why is vetoing it the right thing to do. Why doesn't Bush come to the table with something other than a pipe dream about creating a democracy in Iraq.

It's delussional. Do you actually believe there will be a democracy in Iraq? If you do - well, that's your opinion, and you're free to have it - but you're dead wrong. And if you don't believe that - how can you believe that Bush isn't throwing away our money and troops in a vain attempt to do so.

We either change the whole political strategy in Iraq (back to a Saddam type or a Musharraf pseudo-democracy)- or we get out. The only reason we are not doing this is so Bush can save face. If we just get out - that's going to be a shame as well, and it will create chaos in the entire middle east. But that is a better option than letting Bush hold onto his dellusions of democracy in that country - that's going to lead us to the same chaos - but will cost us a bunch more cash and a whole lot of American lives. Bush is destroying Iraq with his lack of vision and damaging our own. I have no idea how anybody backs this clown. How do you?

The Congress is saying - come to the table because we are not going to fund your insanity any longer. Bush isn't willing to do so - that is most unfortunate.

[Keystone Phil]

It's a non-binding resolution? Why is vetoing it the right thing to do. Why doesn't Bush come to the table with something other than a pipe dream about creating a democracy in Iraq.

If it is non-binding, why was passing it the right thing to do? In reality, the Dems have done nothing on Iraq. It's all talk from them all the time.

It's delussional. Do you actually believe there will be a democracy in Iraq? If you do - well, that's your opinion, and you're free to have it - but you're dead wrong. And if you don't believe that - how can you believe that Bush isn't throwing away our money and troops in a vain attempt to do so.

A democracy might not survive in Iraq but we can still see to it that a more stable government is built before we leave.

I can't stand how so many people get so excited about leaving Iraq now. Yes, our troops wouldn't be in harm's way over there. Yes, we wouldn't have to hear about the troop casualities. But the threat isn't going away. Our troops stationed elsewhere will become the new targets. We here at home will be even more of a target. This problem isn't going away by pulling out. Seeing Iraq's government totally collapse won't just be their problem.

We either change the whole political strategy in Iraq (back to a Saddam type or a Musharraf pseudo-democracy)- or we get out. The only reason we are not doing this is so Bush can save face. If we just get out - that's going to be a shame as well, and it will create chaos in the entire middle east. But that is a better option than letting Bush hold onto his dellusions of democracy in that country - that's going to lead us to the same chaos - but will cost us a bunch more cash and a whole lot of American lives. Bush is destroying Iraq with his lack of vision and damaging our own. I have no idea how anybody backs this clown. How do you?

So we put in a U.S. backed Musharraf-like leader and the insurgency ceases to exist? If anything, I think they'd step it up against a single American backed leader.

[nlm]

The Democrats are trying to get Bush to the table. This bill is a means of doing that.

I don't back getting out of Iraq - unless we refuse to change course. A full scale pull out would be a disaster (but I think I already said that). If we set up a Musharaff type pseudo-democracy, we will have to stay and protect him for quite some time - but we will be going somewhere achievable as opposed to throwing money and lives away on a fantasy.

That's all anybody that is backing this clown is really backing - a fantasy. It's so ridiculous to watch us throw  hundreds of billions of dollars and the lives of our young people away on a fantasy about setting up a democracy in Iraq. Bush has pretty much run out the clock on the American peoples patience with his dellusions - that's a real shame - but it was clear that was going to happen a long time ago. President *ss clown, of course, had his head so far up his butt he couldn't see it coming - that or his pride is so large he just couldn't bring himself to give up on his pet fantasy.

The only courses that are available in the long term to Bush are a major political stratagy shift or a pull out. But - I'm sure his head is back where the sun don't shine again and can not see that either.

[Keystone Phil]

The Democrats are trying to get Bush to the table. This bill is a means of doing that.

You know this bill won't make him reconsider anything so start acting. We heard that they'd end the war during last year's campaign so try to defund the war. Stop wasting everyone's time with non-binding resolutions.

I don't back getting out of Iraq - unless we refuse to change course. A full scale pull out would be a disaster (but I think I already said that). If we set up a Musharaff type pseudo-democracy, we will have to stay and protect him for quite some time - but we will be going somewhere achievable as opposed to throwing money and lives away on a fantasy.

That's reasonable though I hope you know that that wouldn't slow down the insurgency anymore than what we are already doing.

[nlm]

That's reasonable though I hope you know that that wouldn't slow down the insurgency anymore than what we are already doing.

Actually it would. With a pseudo-democracy we wouldn't have to worry about coalition building among the Iraqi people or appeasing the thugs that are currently in their parliament. An absolute police state could be established - all the militias that belong to the members of parliament could be disbanded (or executed for all I care), and security could be imposed with a much higher level of brutality than is possible in country that is making a laughable attempt at becoming a democracy. It would also cut the ties to Iran and the weapons they are giving to the shiite militias (again - many of which belong to members or parliament) in a meaningful way (though not completely, I'm sure).

That isn't to say that the insurgency would not still be a sizable problem for quite some time - it would be. But it would improve the situation quickly, create an end result that is sustainable (and more importantly achievable), and allow us to end our commitment at some point - as opposed to never.

This is the only answer to the problem in Iraq. Not pulling out and leaving the region in crisis and not staying a course based wholly upon a dellusion (there is a reason I don't have a red or a blue state next to my name).

Bush needs to stop wasting time, wake the  F@#^up and realize the American people are going to pull the plug on him and Iraq (leaving the area in crisis) if he doesn't change his commitment to an unachievable fantasy. The utter waste of money and the tragic lose of life due to this fools moronic ideas defies all reason. One trillion dollars, thousands of soldiers lives, and 4 years wasted chasing an entirely stupid concept.

That's why this bill is such a good thing - it puts pressure on Bush to wake up and make changes, it let's him know the clock is ticking (which he would already know if his brain had the power to move a gnats wings). Come 2008 - if this moron doesn't change course, we are going to have a President that will pull the plug on Iraq, there is no question about that in my mind. For him to do that he's going to have to pull his head out of his *ss - which may be beyond his ability - which will be a very sad thing for the entire middle east and for us if he can not do that.  And that is what every Republican that is standing firmly behind this idiot is supporting. Supporting success in that region has nothing to do with supporting idiot boy, and everything thing to do with trying to get him to change course ASAP.

Can you tell that I think the policy Bush is pushing in Iraq is beyond stupid?

Peace bro - think about what I'm saying here. I think you want the same thing I do.

[MODU]

Bush needs to stop wasting time, wake the  F@#^up and realize the American people are going to pull the plug on him and Iraq (leaving the area in crisis) if he doesn't change his commitment to an unachievable fantasy. The utter waste of money and the tragic lose of life due to this fools moronic ideas defies all reason. One trillion dollars, thousands of soldiers lives, and 4 years wasted chasing an entirely stupid concept.

I'm sorry you think that way.  Unfortunately, with an emotional position as that, there is nothing anyone can say or do to change your mind on here.

[nlm]

Bush needs to stop wasting time, wake the  F@#^up and realize the American people are going to pull the plug on him and Iraq (leaving the area in crisis) if he doesn't change his commitment to an unachievable fantasy. The utter waste of money and the tragic lose of life due to this fools moronic ideas defies all reason. One trillion dollars, thousands of soldiers lives, and 4 years wasted chasing an entirely stupid concept.

I'm sorry you think that way.  Unfortunately, with an emotional position as that, there is nothing anyone can say or do to change your mind on here.

Try me MODU - please explain how we are going to establish a central democracy with a parliament of warlords with militias having ties to Iran. Please - give it your best shot. I'd love to hear your logic - but I imagine your above statement is just a shallow attempt to hide the fact that you don't have a clue how it can happen - and are in fact fairly aware that it can not. You just can not get past your love for idiot boy Bush and see the damage he is inflicting by unwaveringly staying committed to a fantasy. Hell - don't do it for me - do it for everybody else.

[MODU]

Try me MODU - please explain how we are going to establish a central democracy with a parliament of warlords with militias having ties to Iran. Please - give it your best shot. I'd love to hear your logic - but I imagine your above statement is just a shallow attempt to hide the fact that you don't have a clue how it can happen - and are in fact fairly aware that it can not. You just can not get past your love for idiot boy Bush and see the damage he is inflicting by unwaveringly staying committed to a fantasy. Hell - don't do it for me - do it for everybody else.

Care to try that again, but this time with a little more maturity?

[nlm]

Try me MODU - please explain how we are going to establish a central democracy with a parliament of warlords with militias having ties to Iran. Please - give it your best shot. I'd love to hear your logic - but I imagine your above statement is just a shallow attempt to hide the fact that you don't have a clue how it can happen - and are in fact fairly aware that it can not. You just can not get past your love for idiot boy Bush and see the damage he is inflicting by unwaveringly staying committed to a fantasy. Hell - don't do it for me - do it for everybody else.

Care to try that again, but this time with a little more maturity?

Yeah - that's about what I expected from a die hard Bush supporter when confronted with the undeniability of the disaster he has created.

But seriously - your master can not explain it - so I don't know why one of his lackies should be able to. And I'm really only interested in hearing it from idiot boy prime himself.