Israel-Gaza war

[Meclazine for Israel]

Only 4,000 Hamas fighters left and counting.


Smoke billows after an Israeli bombardment in Rafah, Gaza, on 6 May 2024 (AFP)

I would never have expected Hamas to be stupid enough to put them all in Rafah.

[Rubensim]

Only 4,000 Hamas fighters left and counting.


Smoke billows after an Israeli bombardment in Rafah, Gaza, on 6 May 2024 (AFP)

I would never have expected Hamas to be stupid enough to put them all in Rafah.

there was a reason why pro-palestinian on twitter and college campuses cried so much and begged israel not to invade Rafah, they knew it was Hamas last stronghold.

[emailking]

Spain, Norway and Ireland will recognize a Palestinian state on May 28

Spain, Norway and Ireland have announced plans to formally recognize a Palestinian state, in a move that is likely to bolster the global Palestinian cause but strain relations with Israel.

"Today, Ireland, Norway and Spain are announcing that we recognize the state of Palestine. Each of us will now undertake whatever national steps are necessary to give effect to that decision," Irish Prime Minister Simon Harris told a press conference in Dublin. 

The recognition will come into force in all three countries on May 28, Irish foreign minister Micheál Martin said.

https://www.cnn.com/webview/middleeast/live-news/iran-israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-05-22-24/

[Rubensim]

Spain, Norway and Ireland will recognize a Palestinian state on May 28

Spain, Norway and Ireland have announced plans to formally recognize a Palestinian state, in a move that is likely to bolster the global Palestinian cause but strain relations with Israel.

"Today, Ireland, Norway and Spain are announcing that we recognize the state of Palestine. Each of us will now undertake whatever national steps are necessary to give effect to that decision," Irish Prime Minister Simon Harris told a press conference in Dublin. 

The recognition will come into force in all three countries on May 28, Irish foreign minister Micheál Martin said.

https://www.cnn.com/webview/middleeast/live-news/iran-israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-05-22-24/

So does this mean israel relations with norway, ireland and spain are dead now?.

[Open Source Intelligence]

Can people please stop acting like anyone is getting arrested? You guys have all the understanding of international relations of a 12-year-old. There's as much chance of Netanyahu getting arrested as there is Putin: zero. Netanyahu is just not going to or going to be allowed to travel to countries that say to Israel ahead of time they would be required to arrest him. Much like Putin, Netanyahu is going to only go to friendly countries that either do not submit to ICC jurisdiction or will openly ignore it in his instance.

[emailking]

So does this mean israel relations with norway, ireland and spain are dead now?.

I think things will definitely be more strained than they were but probably not dead. They made it clear this action is not intended as an endorsement of Hamas or a condemnation of Israel.

[pppolitics]

Only 4,000 Hamas fighters left and counting.


Smoke billows after an Israeli bombardment in Rafah, Gaza, on 6 May 2024 (AFP)

I would never have expected Hamas to be stupid enough to put them all in Rafah.

Don't worry. Hamas (or another terrorist group that takes its place) will be able to easily replenish its ranks.

Israel has turned Gaza into a perfect breeding ground for terrorists.

People now have no homes, no education, no work, no health care, and burning grudges for the killings of their relatives making them easy recruits to become future terrorists.

[pppolitics]

Ireland, Spain and Norway say they will recognize a Palestinian state

CNN - Ireland, Spain and Norway have announced plans to formally recognize a Palestinian state next week, in a move that is likely to bolster the global Palestinian cause but further strain relations between Europe and Israel.

The three European nations say their landmark decision is the best way to achieve lasting peace in the Middle East, but it sparked swift condemnation from Israel, as its foreign minister ordered the immediate recall of its ambassadors from those countries.

Most of the world already recognizes Palestinian statehood. More than 140 out of 193 member states of the United Nations have made their recognition official. But only some nations in the 27-member European Union are among them.

Irish Prime Minister Simon Harris told a Wednesday news conference in Dublin: “Today, Ireland, Norway and Spain are announcing that we recognize the state of Palestine. Each of us will now undertake whatever national steps are necessary to give effect to that decision.”

[...]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/22/middleeast/palestinian-statehood-spain-norway-ireland-intl/index.html

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

And Israel has already summoned their ambassadors. A full breakdown of diplomatic relations is likely coming. We were basically already there with Spain and Ireland.

[Horus]

Every day Israel becomes more and more of an international pariah.

[Open Source Intelligence]

Every day Israel becomes more and more of an international pariah.

Hamas is clearly getting throttled in this "war" but this has to be the most successful failure in global military history since the Easter Rising. Israeli leadership are either dumb or in "we don't give a sh*t anymore" mode. I think it's the latter.

[Rubensim]

Agree, i think Israel Government just have given up on international relations aside from the usa (And that not guaranted) and so to israel the world can cry about genocide as long and loud as it want but if the usa doesn't complain Israel won't stop.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Agree, i think Israel Government just have given up on international relations aside from the usa (And that not guaranted) and so to israel the world can cry about genocide as long and loud as it want but if the usa doesn't complain Israel won't stop.

Given that these are three left-wing countries that have already had relations breaking down with them for a while, I think it's similar to Brazil - Israel is done taking insults and would rather not have relations with some minor powers.

Worth noting as well that if Palestine is a country, then it declared war on October 7th and Israel has no special obligations to it.

[Rubensim]

Agree, i think Israel Government just have given up on international relations aside from the usa (And that not guaranted) and so to israel the world can cry about genocide as long and loud as it want but if the usa doesn't complain Israel won't stop.

Given that these are three left-wing countries that have already had relations breaking down with them for a while, I think it's similar to Brazil - Israel is done taking insults and would rather not have relations with some minor powers.

Worth noting as well that if Palestine is a country, then it declared war on October 7th and Israel has no special obligations to it.

Agree, my prediction that Israel no longer give a crap if some minor power say they cut relations, it will only care to preserve relations with countries that actually matter and are important to Israel
And i bet you when this war over theses countries will immediately pull out Recognization of Palestine when a right-wing government elected so really all Israel have to do is wait when a right-wing government or even just more moderate left-wing government elected in to repair relations.

[Open Source Intelligence]

Agree, i think Israel Government just have given up on international relations aside from the usa (And that not guaranted) and so to israel the world can cry about genocide as long and loud as it want but if the usa doesn't complain Israel won't stop.

Like I said, that's a really long flight from Tel Aviv to New York.

Congrats to us, we have another Taiwan to defend.

[Open Source Intelligence]

Agree, i think Israel Government just have given up on international relations aside from the usa (And that not guaranted) and so to israel the world can cry about genocide as long and loud as it want but if the usa doesn't complain Israel won't stop.

Given that these are three left-wing countries that have already had relations breaking down with them for a while, I think it's similar to Brazil - Israel is done taking insults and would rather not have relations with some minor powers.

Worth noting as well that if Palestine is a country, then it declared war on October 7th and Israel has no special obligations to it.

Agree, my prediction that Israel no longer give a crap if some minor power say they cut relations, it will only care to preserve relations with countries that actually matter and are important to Israel
And i bet you when this war over theses countries will immediately pull out Recognization of Palestine when a right-wing government elected so really all Israel have to do is wait when a right-wing government or even just more moderate left-wing government elected in to repair relations.

The people running Ireland at the moment are not the most right-wing option but Fine Gael are not very right-wing and considering Sinn Fein are definitely not backing Israel and are a large minority in the Dail, Ireland is not overturning this. Norway's foreign policy has always been idiosyncratic so you can't look at it from left-vs-right lines. Spain, sure.

[Silent Hunter]

Agree, i think Israel Government just have given up on international relations aside from the usa (And that not guaranted) and so to israel the world can cry about genocide as long and loud as it want but if the usa doesn't complain Israel won't stop.

Probably not even then. They can inflict mass starvation on Gaza with just their domestic weapons industry, as they control every entrance into Gaza.

The Irish still had to settle for 26 counties out of 32; which they might well have got without a war.

[Rubensim]

Lovely for some of the most historically antisemitic countries in Europe to send such a clear message to Palestinian leadership: if you murder, torture, rape, and kidnap 1,000+ Jews, and then wage war in such a way that civilian casualties are maximized and peace is repeatedly rejected, we will reward you.

And this is not only a message to the palestinian leadership it a message to basically all terrorists across the globe, you can get away with killing a thousand innocent people if you use your own civilians as human shields and cry victim while making sure as many of your own people die.

[certified hummus supporter 🇵🇸🤝🇺🇸🤝🇺🇦]

Funny how you guys are specifically caring more about the Jewish lives lost as a result of October 7th and, conveniently, casting aside the Muslim and Christian lives lost in Gaza as a result of this war.

No person, irregardless of their respective faith, is more worthy of concern than another.

[lfromnj]

Would Ireland/Norway/Spain have recognized Palestine in 2024 if 10/7 didn't happen?
No they likely wouldn't have.
Therefore logic follows that if Hamas's goal was to further the Palestinian cause they were 100% successful in their aims and the world is rewarding them for 10/7/.
Explain why someone whose number one goal is to support the Palestinian cause shouldn't support more 10/7s?

[Horus]

Funny how you guys are specifically caring more about the Jewish lives lost as a result of October 7th and, conveniently, casting aside the Muslim and Christian lives lost in Gaza as a result of this war.

No person, irregardless of their respective faith, is more worthy of concern than another.

A lot of older westerners genuinely do value Jewish lives more than non Jewish lives. Some kind of collective Holocaust guilt I think. Look at how posters like Meclazine discuss the conflict.

Anyways, Israel was created to be an ethnostate. The entire project was intrinsically far right from the very start, as are all ethnostates. Herzl's dream becomes more and more of a reality every year, this is exactly what he wanted.

[Open Source Intelligence]

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/21/biden-admin-hammering-israel-military-strategy-gaza-00159262

Biden administration open criticism of Israel's tactics:

The Biden administration fears Israel is disastrously squandering its opportunity for victory against Hamas, losing its best chance to eliminate the group’s hold on Gaza and threat to the Israeli people.

Top officials are publicly calling Israel’s strategy in Gaza self-defeating and likely to open the door to Hamas’ return — a level of criticism of the Middle East ally not seen since the war began in October.

The officials say Israel’s government has failed to hold parts of Gaza after clearing them, has turned the civilian population and the rest of the world against it with widespread bombing and inadequate humanitarian aid, and enabled Hamas to recruit more fighters.

Highlights:

-there's no connection between military operations and endgame strategy
-estimates Israel has only killed about a third of Hamas' pre-October 7th members, estimates about 2/3rds of Hamas' tunnel network is still intact
-concerns Hamas has recruited new fighters the last 7 months in the thousands
-we have shared lessons learned from Iraq and these are not heeded by Israel

Last week, Deputy Secretary of State Kurt Campbell said Israel’s “total victory” against Hamas was unlikely. Then on Monday, both Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin and Gen. C.Q. Brown, the Joint Chiefs chair, chided Israel for failing to protect civilians in Gaza and to prevent Hamas from storming back to places it once controlled.

Both Pentagon leaders are well-known as quiet professionals who aren’t prone to airing their grievances.

“Not only do you have to actually go in and clear out whatever adversary you are up against, you have to go in, hold the territory and then you’ve got to stabilize it,” Brown told reporters. If that doesn’t happen, it “allows your adversary then to re-populate in areas if you’re not there, and so that does make it more challenging for them as far as being able to meet their objective of being able to militarily destroy and defeat Hamas.”

Those comments followed others by Secretary of State Antony Blinken who last week predicted the eventual withdrawal of Israeli forces could leave “a vacuum that’s likely to be filled by chaos, by anarchy, and ultimately by Hamas again.”

It’s a sentiment shared by former top officials with deep experience in similar campaigns.

“Everybody gets the fact that you have to destroy Hamas … but then what?” said retired Gen. Joseph Votel, who was the head of U.S. Central Command at the height of the fight against the Islamic State. “What’s the plan to take care of the 2.5 million Palestinians that are left behind? What’s the plan to deal with the remainder of the Hamas fighters? It seems incomplete and I just don’t think that they have communicated or have thought through that as well as I would’ve hoped they would’ve.”

Dana Stroul, a former top Middle East official in the Pentagon who stepped down in January, recently wrote that the U.S. shared lessons of its failures in Iraq with Israel — namely how an insurgency grew out of the botched American occupation — but that Israel has not heeded those warnings.

“Not only has Israel declined to learn from this body of knowledge and experience on the sequencing of activities to prevent worst outcomes for postconflict societies, but it also appears that Israel is on track to repeat the same mistakes,” she lamented in a Foreign Affairs essay published Monday.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

Would Ireland/Norway/Spain have recognized Palestine in 2024 if 10/7 didn't happen?
No they likely wouldn't have.
Therefore logic follows that if Hamas's goal was to further the Palestinian cause they were 100% successful in their aims and the world is rewarding them for 10/7/.
Explain why someone whose number one goal is to support the Palestinian cause shouldn't support more 10/7s?

It's because western nations generally have been on the wrong side before, and because we tend to only take action when things escalate or get attention. There are so many other frozen conflicts that barely get attention and that therefore people don't act (think about the issue in Western Sahara for instance).

The problem here is not western nations recognising the Palestinian Republic, but western nations just only taking diplomatic action when situations escalate.

Other than that, yes, it proofs that independence movements likely have to escalate in order to receive recognition, but that has been the case in all of human history basically for the most part...

[LAKISYLVANIA]

Ireland, Spain and Norway say they will recognize a Palestinian state

CNN - Ireland, Spain and Norway have announced plans to formally recognize a Palestinian state next week, in a move that is likely to bolster the global Palestinian cause but further strain relations between Europe and Israel.

The three European nations say their landmark decision is the best way to achieve lasting peace in the Middle East, but it sparked swift condemnation from Israel, as its foreign minister ordered the immediate recall of its ambassadors from those countries.

Most of the world already recognizes Palestinian statehood. More than 140 out of 193 member states of the United Nations have made their recognition official. But only some nations in the 27-member European Union are among them.

Irish Prime Minister Simon Harris told a Wednesday news conference in Dublin: “Today, Ireland, Norway and Spain are announcing that we recognize the state of Palestine. Each of us will now undertake whatever national steps are necessary to give effect to that decision.”

[...]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/22/middleeast/palestinian-statehood-spain-norway-ireland-intl/index.html

Belgium will likely follow. It's just one government party (MR) that is standing on the brakes here, but I suspect we will eventually recognise Palestine as well.

[MayorCarcetti]

Would Ireland/Norway/Spain have recognized Palestine in 2024 if 10/7 didn't happen?
No they likely wouldn't have.
Therefore logic follows that if Hamas's goal was to further the Palestinian cause they were 100% successful in their aims and the world is rewarding them for 10/7/.
Explain why someone whose number one goal is to support the Palestinian cause shouldn't support more 10/7s?

They likely wouldn't have recognized Palestine if Israel hadn't bombarded Gaza for six months, indiscriminately killing and maiming thousands of innocent people, making Palestine an even larger cause celebre in these countries. Logic should be not to commit horrific war crimes because it might just backfire.